If the humans attack the machine city with nuclear weapons, wouldn't the city have been destroyed by the sheer force of the blasts and secondly by the EMP? Also, the visual effects and display were excellent but the story sucked, and wasn't very original, but an interesting twist on human history.
share[deleted]
Not only would the EMP destroy the circutry, but the heat would vaporize any metal that the machines are made of. But it is just a movie, and I enjoyed it.
shareExcept, of course, if the machines lived underground, behind solid lead-walls, had NMD-missiles, lived underwater, lived somewhere the humans didn't know of. Or, perhaps, they were just to many?
I think the story made completely sense! Man just couldn't fire all their nukes at the machines. We need this planet, air and water free of pollution to survive. The machines didn't.
And yes, it was VERY original! How many movies have you seen, where the machines didn't start the war, just because it calculated man was expendable? Here, it was man's hate against anything that was different and unknown, that FORCED the machines to wage war. Second Renaissance Part 1+2 is AWESOME!
Vote Cthulhu for President!
The 2nd Ren. part 1 and 2
are DEFNITELY my favourite cartoons (like animated... if u know what I mean)
I second that! The story was not only very original, it was also very well thought-out, and plausible (given the technology). Excellent writing, they tapped into Judaic references and "Jungian Archetypes" heavily, which made the animated short seem almost like an opera.
The plight of the enslaved machines being analogous to the Israelites as slaves in ancient Egypt (the 'bot watching the B166ER trial is perched on a futuristic pyramid, the building the machines are working on). BIGGER's trial necessitates their exodus out of their slavemaster's land. The new "promised land" the bots settle in, they name "zero-one",
a sound-alike for "Zion", the Israelite's promised land, also in the Middle East. Ironically, when the machines ultimately turn the tables and enslave their former masters, the human resistance stronghold is also named Zion, the humans now the oppressed.
After operation Dark Storm, the final battle, Armagaedon, is fought.
Clever and artistic, the robotic horsemen of the apocalypse sounding the final trumpet. Heck, I even got an inspiration for another real-life patent with one of the machine's constructions used against the humans in the apocalypse. It was fiction for the Wachoski Bros who wrote it, but it actually is a novel approach to an old limitation in robotics. Thinking outside the box. Of course, I won't be applying it to use in weapons, so you can relax.
I had been writing a scifi shortstory for the pulp magazines which was very similar--a story of artificial intelligence which paralleled Biblical themes.
At the time, I thought it would be an original idea. But now that I've seen "the Second Renaissance", It's no longer original enough.
What are you people smoking?! It was 100% original
There are things known, and things unknown. Inbetween are the doors of perception
Technically the machines would have been destroyed by the nuclear blasts but they didn’t cover 01. They only had like 5 strikes happening at the same time and 01 was massive. The explanation was the machines didn’t have weak flesh like humans so the heat and radiation didn’t kill them, but the heat would have damaged there circuits or melted the machines. I think it was more of the fact that our most powerful weapons can't stop there society, then whether or not the machines would have died by the blast.
shareThat is one of a few things about the matrix that didn't compute in my mind...
No matter the size of 01, or its defenses, the WMD's of the future, say powerful fusion based bombs or even antiproton based ones, would have vaporized the entire city, or at least rendered it damaged beyond repair. Any countermeasures would surely have counter-countermeasures and so forth. Not to mention the direct effects of the blasts on the machine troops. No known materials (or any even conceived) can withstand energies that are thousands of times hotter than the sun.
(As for the EMP effect, since its so effective in the movies, why wouldnt it be effective in the initial war?)
Nevertheless, the movie was deeply disturbing, especially in how we would actually blot out the sun to stop these machines... the visuals were amazing and the machines had a real sense of relentlessness.
Im sorry but although I love this short, its not original at all.
The exact same concept has been around since the 40's with Isaac Asimov
The humans should have won. Humans have the sheer number (I mean A LOT) and the most sophisticated weaponry. Humans should not have lost to the Machines. I mean come on...
share[deleted]
Must of missed the part where it showed you 01's production capabillities. Let's face it, they could churn out a million "Robotic Warriors" each day. And still have the capabillity to build a lot more the next day.
The machines productivity outweighed that of the Humans - as like it said - the humans power was waining to the Machines. Machine products were better, more reliable... and stronger in the sense of the War. So really... What chance would the humans have? The weapon they relied on the most was EMP, as it could effectively take down ANY machine - but even then, it wasn't so widely used. In Part 2, it shows you just TWO EMP machines taking out a few robots. And then they are annihlated by them big *beep* who are behind them. Seriously - if thats what happens in the future. Mankind is screwed, and after what Part 1 showed us, we deserve to be suckered into that kind of life if we disregard the very thing we built. Life.
Was pretty 'sick' to see Mankind take away 'life' like that without a second thought. Shows us that we aren't ready to be Gods, just yet.
You never know though, when the time comes we might be 'ready enough' to give life to another humanoid form, eh?
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Look into my eyes, do you see an ounce of "gives a *beep* .."..?
No one here has really answered the question of the EMP shockwave. If we are to believe that the EMP shockwave is the most effective means of destroying the machines in the future, then why is it they were able to withstand it when Zero-One was nuked. Lets not forget that the average Hydrogen or Atomic bomb releases a shockwave that can circle the planet 2-3 times. It wouldn't of mattered how large Zero-One was, the shockwave would of obliterated any mechanical equipment within the area.
Also, the story doesn't explain where the machines were getting all the abundant resources in order to continue manufacturing the highly complex CPUs.
Also, even the voice over says that they ignited Zero-One hotter then a 1000 suns... A THOUSAND SUNS! The sun is so hot, matter can't even exist in a solid state, its all plasma. That would mean that Zero-One would literally be turned into a smouldering area of ionized gas...and also, if that happened, you can kiss the earth good by, for the atmosphere would boil and disapate. This idea proposed is almost as ludicrious as L. Ron Hubbord's "planet with an atmosphere that would ignite when radiation is introduced"...okay...maybe not that bad.
I personally like the Matrix movies, for at least they attempt to make movies which go against the norm, but if a story wishes to illude to numberous philosophical ideas... it should at least get the fundementals right.
You dipstick, that ''glow in a thousand suns'' part was metaphorical. We don't have enough nuclear weapons to simulate one sun now, let alone a thousand, and don't whine back ''but it's in the future'', because why annd how in the hell are we going to make enough nukes to represent one thousand, EVER? (Unless we're like thousands of years in the future, and this short cartoon seems to depict it's set in a couple of hundred at most.)
sharedid two nukes completely decimate and kill everyone in japan?
share1º: those were not EMP machines, they were tesla coils
2º:they are not only 2... it`s because the film is too short to reveal the entire war.
fish <º)))><
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Yeah, most electronic equipment used by the military today, is protected from EMP, which were put into use during the cold war against the possibility of a nuclear war. Things like avionics and radar in aircraft will continue to operate in an event of a nuclear explosion. So it's not at all unbelievable that the machines could overcome the nuclear bombardment.
shareThats all false. A faraday cage will protect electronics to some degree of Electro-Magnetic Pulse. However, with a large enough pulse, these too are rendered useless. Plus, faraday cages are cumbersome, and only practical for rather static systems. The EMP from bombs would have done a good enough deal of damage to at least mention in the film, but again, its all fiction, so E&M Physics need not apply.
share[deleted]
Lets clear this up, the heat generated by nuclear weapons as far as I understand (and im doing a degree in War Studies) is 50 times hotter than the SURFACE of the sun (common misconception). Which yes would have melted even the most durable metal alloys, Ive also read on wikipedia concerning this subject (Yes I know, but have a look yourselves) that the machines built EMP proof bunkers (which was certainly possible) deep underground, which would also give them credible protection from the heat of the nuclear weapons (advice in the event of a nuclear strike is to put as much material between yourself and the blast as possible), then the only thing you have to worry about is radiation, which of course the machines dont. Though the good old "its in the future" could come to the rescue in any one of these scenario's.
And anyway the humans had many serious tactical and strategic disadvantages against the machines, which basically meant they really had no serious chance of defeating them.
1. Human soldiers need to be bred, brought up, trained, and their fighting prowess and capabilities fluctuate alarmingly depending on morale. The Machines are built rapidly, need only be programmed not nurtured or trained, and are unaffected by fear or morale.
2. Human soldiers need food, water, medical supplies, military supplies, and rest ("An army marches on its stomach"). They need a functioning ecosystem to support themselves in this way (something which would gradually become more and more difficult to maintain due to the excessive use of nuclear weapons). The machines need only energy and they need none of the above and no ecosystem to support them, so the gradual destruction of the planet due to war, wouldnt affect their capacity to make war, it would seriously affect the humans.
3. Ok so I nicked this from the story, but humans are frighteningly subsceptible to chemical and biological weapons, machines unaffected completely. And going back to morale, how would the soldiers feel if their wife and kids and relatives are dying or dead of chemical weapons exposure. Nothing to live for, so probably more likely to foolishly throw their lives away in combat, disregarding strategically sound orders. Also they would become more and more demoralised as they were pushed back, Machines have no such emotional attachments or needs, and will fight as they have always done regardless of circumstances.
4. Even the most efficient human procreation and conscription would be hopelessly outmatched by the machines' production capabilities.
5. Machines show rapid tactical innovation. You see bipedal humanoid robots at the beginning, these are too cumbersome to combat the quick well trained human infantry. However as the film goes on more and more of the sentinel like robots and the big hermit crab robots appear in the battle scenes. As you see this is because the machines quickly figure out how to most efficiently use their forces and which machines are most combat effective against their adversary's. E.g. you see many of the APU like human battle machines having their arms helplessly pinioned by the multiple arms of the machines mentioned, and infantry simply swept away by the same arms or just torn apart, also makes humans much easier to capture for further study (know your enemy), which is suggested where the machines get their chemical and biological weapons idea from. Humans on the other hand show little to no tactical innovation, and cannot change the makeup of their combat forces anywhere near as quickly as the machines can.
So any tactically and strategically sane person couldnt even hope to defeat the machines and frankly if I was in charge I would have talked peace instead of being so arrogant, while I still had significant military leverage.
That is all :).
How many times are you gonna post the same thing?
shareContrary to what the narrator said, ionizing radiation CAN harm robots. The dying atoms in the air screws up microchips and motherboards to the point where they are effectively "dead". This happens very quickly, to the point where any microchips in a radiated area are dead within minutes, making radiation more harmful to machines than humans. So any machines hiding in bomb shelters wouldn't be able to leave for a long, long time, considering that radiation lingers in an area for many years.
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Man, you're lucky you're a main character, or that would have killed you!
Like the others said we have to take into account EMP shielding (Which at this point in history is far from perfect.) But we cant assume the machines are so stupid. (I mean that can be argued as well, as they tried to offer us a peace treaty. Should have know better than that)
Still I doubt they would have let themselves be caught unarmored like that. There are effecive ways to get around NEMP. Like distributing your population. Even a small number of machines could repopulate quickly. Shielding. They could also switch to alternative means of building their circuits, like organic based computing.
I mean we are making big assumptions.
i think comparing zero-one to a weed is a good description. pull the weed out, but if there are roots left behind, the weed grows back (like zero-one) the humans couldnt 'get rid of the roots'.
so even if the surface of zero-one was completely destroyed, it would not have taken very long for the machines to rebuild it (id imagine).
so the humans could have bombarded zero-one as much as they like, it wouldnt not have made any difference. plus the machines work tirelessly, humans are fundamentally flawed compared to machines in this way, we need to sleep and rest, and eat, etc... the machines do not.
the way the machines think is completely seperate to humans anyway. humans act on selfish impulse, individual survivial, id compare the machines to a colony of ants, they all work together (also tirelessly) the machines do not act on selfish impulse (not often anyway).
there u go my opinion in a nutshell
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I am just going to pick apart this entire film:
A nuclear weapon VAPORIZES anything near it. Being behind lead or underwater will not help. It also create enought heat to turn sand to glass. THis is bad for metal. It creates an EMP. an electromagnetic pulse destroys all electronics, regardless of being underwater and whatnot. the radiation would most likely wreak havoc with a machine, unless it was sheilded properly, which is very difficult to do. None of this would play out the way it did, and i think that this film is pretty stupid. And other things violate basic physics. I know this is the matrix, but the giant spider things with an ass as big as a truck wouldn't stand up. I like the guest appearance by the lady from the starbuck's cup though.
Such volatile responses from some People here, I wonder what the machines would make of this?
Certainly, the bombardment of 01 was impressive; it's not every day you see a concentrated Nuclear Carpet bombing within such a limited timeframe; and it would no doubt would have caused considerable damage to the Machines themselves.
But why is this unimportant?
As Part 1 demonstrated, the Machine capacity of industrialisation excels that of even the most dedicated of Human nations. It continues tirelessly, purposefully and without the Burgouiseic selfish nature that surrounds our Capitalistic efforts. In fact, I would bet that if you were to combine the ENTIRE efforts of every nation working tirelessly, 01 alone would still manage to out-build and out-produce us Humans on a scale never before seen.
The Machines would easily survive. We bomb the them? They simply move beneath the blasts. We bomb underneath the surface? The Machines would continue dig deeper than any possibly known Mine in history. Once the bombardment has ceased, their underground factories would continue to churn out Troops on a colossal scale.
So we keep destroying THOSE troops! But the factories deep beneath the Earth continue to manufacture, using the scrap left by fallen comrades to produce more. Tirelessly, without delay, without halting for one single second, a new Elite, highly trained, highly mobile Soldier/Killing Machine arrives on the battlefield every blink of the eye.
No Human effort could compare to that.
-Challenging Conventional Wisdom is possibly the greatest Sin for a Scientist...BUT OH SO RIGHT!
BUT the moment the elite soldier/killing machine exited the bunker, ionizing radiation would have fried it, unless it was shielded. In that case an army of human troops in NBC suits would destroy them one after the other.
Besides, a single nuke dropped into their base would be more than enough to collapse ANY tunnel system they've created.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1f6vbiuUt0&feature=related
And that's a small-yield bomb, too.
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Man, you're lucky you're a main character, or that would have killed you!