MovieChat Forums > November (2004) Discussion > Can someone explain this to me?

Can someone explain this to me?


I'm sorry it was good, but huh? I dont get it. Can u explain it.




"Its like your playing checkers, and I'm playing chess." -Dodger from Cry_Wolf

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Sophie was killed in the convenience store robbery at the beginning. The whole film corresponds to the three stages of grief: denial, despair, and acceptance. She died at the end, and it is up to the viewer to figure what was real and what wasn't. Brilliant movie.

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[deleted]

ooo!!! i never thought of that!!!!

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[deleted]

You're right that the headings refer to her dying. I knew there was something familiar about those stages but couldn't remember why. A quick online check found the answer in Roger Ebert's review which said, "...we are reminded that acceptance is the fifth of Elizabeth Kubler-Ross's five stages of dying. The others are denial, anger, bargaining and depression. It is useful to note that Kubler-Ross does not define "acceptance" as a "happy" stage. It is simply an end of resistance to death." And once you look at it that way, it all makes sense. I know this movie got a lot of flack from people who simply didn't think the ending was a big revelation. But if you take it in the context of Ross' framework, I really think it works brilliantly.

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[deleted]

After watching the movie and reading various responses on this and other forums, I think you may be wrong, James. I've examined the movie from two perspectives - the boyfriend dying and Cox's stages of grief, and both or just her dying and Cox's stages of shock. According to most psychologists, the stages of grief and shock are very similar.

Shock has 3 stages (if you exclude the fact that you've entered a state of shock):

1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Acceptance

Grief has 5 stages:

1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

While the movie divides into 3 sections - denial, despair, and acceptance, it excludes anger, bargaining, and depression. Most people would associate despair with depression but that would leave 2 stages of grief to be explained. Bargaining is not despair, so anger is the only other possible substitution for despair.

Despair is defined as:

1. to lose all hope
2. to be overcome by a sense of futility or defeat

Anger is defined as:

A strong feeling of displeasure or hostility

Depression is defined as:

(psychological definition only) Psychology. A psychiatric disorder characterized by an inability to concentrate, insomnia, loss of appetite, anhedonia, feelings of extreme sadness, guilt, helplessness and hopelessness, and thoughts of death

Interestingly despair could easily represent both anger or depression (hoplessness for depression and anger over defeat). Using these definitions, let's assume both situations.

Given the movie's content, let's assume that the denial act was actually denial. The despair act of the movie opens a few more possibilities. The next steps are either anger (in a shock context - i.e. she was shot) or anger/barganing/depression (in a grief context - i.e. only her boyfriend was shot). Assuming grief, anger would assume the form of her snapping at students and being short with the investigator (there may be more incidents of anger portrayed in this stage). However in the grief context, we see a lot more. Anger - all of the above. Bargaining - she pleads her boyfriend not to leave, she begs the cops to help find the photograph shooter (also includes some anger), she asks things of her students, etc. Depression - she doesn't feel like eating when she's with her mother, she's the victim in the robbery (helplessness), she feels guilty for her boyfriend leaving (she tells him of the affair), she is sad, she sees blood and her ears bleed (thoughts of death). The finaly stage of acceptance in a grief or shock context could be interpreted the same.

Given that the ambiguity lies in the middle of the movie during the despair stage (by definition and by movie content), I would argue that the middle falls more in line with the stages of grief. Therefore, her boyfriend is shot and she is not. The photo on the wall of the streched out hand is either symbolic or she took it when she saw her boyfriend lying dead on the ground (she is an artist, remember). The point of the movie jumping back and forth through time and thoughts is symbolic of the stress she deals with as she overcomes the trauma she's been through.

I would love to hear your or any replies regarding this post. I have thought aobut this movie quite a bit and I am excited by the thoughts generated by the film.

Sources:

Stages of shock:
http://www.cityu.edu.hk/ls/lotus&rose/popup/shock.htm

Stages of grief:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Stages_of_Grief

Term definition:
http://dictionary.reference.com

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Does these comments have anything to do with the film entitled November? Sounds familiar.

By the way, I have some extra denials. I'll trade one for three acceptances. You can start over.

I've always thought that players on basketball teams should get their team assignments just before the game, all wear the same style uniform, and get team reassignments every ten minutes. All without announcing to the audience who's playing on what team. Brilliant! Classic!

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Just... just calm down now...

... and take your medication...

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Actually, there are 5 stages, but the movie only focuses on 3.
And that's how I interpreted it as well- both she and her boyfriend were shot during the robbery and she went through denial, despair (Depression?) and acceptance as she lay there dying. The story didn't show her going through Anger or Bargaining; I guess they wouldn't apply in this case?

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[deleted]

soo....in other words, this was kind of a twist on The Sixth Sense?

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soo....in other words, this was kind of a twist on The Sixth Sense?


No, more like Jacob's Ladder (see also: The I Inside). If you saw Jacob's Ladder then you could pretty much figure out how this one would end. I still kinda liked it, though.
"Action is how men express romance on film." -- Kurt Wimmer

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Yeah, plus anger had a part of all 3 because she got angry with her students and the detective, and bargaining wouldn't have made a good 30 minute section of the movie. Did anyone else think the end was very tragic, and because of the lack of sound when they show her getting shot, it hit me harder. I actually cried.

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Yes!!! I almost cried too, I found it really sad seeing them both lying there.

So let me get this right I only finished watching it for the first time 10 mins ago. all the stages that are being shown is actually when she is lying there dying and its showing the different scenarios of what could have happened, that she is imagining. until she realises she is dying?

someone mentioned that she had only met her boyfriend that day..? im a bit confused at that.

I think I will need to watch it again to pick up on things, like i dont get the bit with the slides and how she sees her car outside shop, the bit with the wine falling, and how in the acceptance she stops it falling... like did that bit happen in 'real' life'. and was she really seeing a therpist. I know I may seem stupid asking these questions.. but Im going to watch it again soon, to try and pick up on things better.

~Sarah~

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[deleted]

Who cares what was real and what wasn't if she's dead?

I didn't care at all what happened to any of them through the whole movie! I wasted approx. 40 min on this movie. I don't care enough to waste anymore thinking about it.

However, Cox was good and the way it was shot was cool.

Bad movie though. Just bad, played out, been done before.

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In other words The Sixth Sense.

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Why does everyone think that Courtney Cox's
character died in this film..?

She survived the shooting.
Her "boyfriend" didn't.


===============================================
"you can't wake someone...who is only pretending to be asleep."

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she did die.. it shows it at the end. dont confuse people who dont get it

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i disagree.

in the first 30 seconds of the film (which is also the end of the film), you can hear her breathing as her P.O.V. watches her dead boyfriend lying next to her.

her eyes never close...and they never show her "die".

(interpretation is beautiful thing)

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its not up for interpretation... she died. whole storylin eof the movie.

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[deleted]

If she dies, then why does the detective guy show up in all 3 segments? He came after the shot of her boyfriends hand. I don't think she died right there, but her boyfriend did.

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It's the opposite.

Doug Roberts: What do they call it when you kill people?
The Towering Inferno

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Read this on Wikipedia in the article about this movie:

"According to Greg Harrison, the events in the film were Sophie's memories as she and Hugh laid dying on the floor of the convenience store: "Each movement of this memory was her process of coming to terms with the terrible trauma, which was that she was killed for absolutely no reason, and it was some random act of violence she couldn’t confront". He added he felt November was "open-ended" enough that he hoped viewers would "come up with the most beautiful stories themselves that are very different from how I saw it"

Greg Harrison being the director, this should explain the ending.

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I guess maybe he should explain the ending, but he probably senses he shouldn't underestimate what the film could mean to someone, so he didn't.


One thing I don't understand is how someone can grieve their own death...
And aren't there six stages of grief?

Just a question.

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[deleted]

Just because someone has "accepted" death doesnt mean he or she will then die at that time. If you go through the "stages" of death, once you have accepted your death, that doesn't mean at that point you are dead.

Niether shot was life treatening concidering how quickly first responders showed up. I dont think it's certain she died.

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[deleted]

I honestly too this to be that she died at the end with her boyfriend, and although it's confusing at first, at the end it all starts to make sense, but it depends on your own personal opinion of what exactly happened and what didn't! I personally thought this was an amazingly beautiful movie, and it was so sad at the end! I was crying so much, but it was done so amazingly well! Loved it!

"Who knows what could happen, do what you do, just keep on laughing." - Avril Lavigne

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[deleted]