MovieChat Forums > Revolver (2005) Discussion > Was I the only one who didn't get this?

Was I the only one who didn't get this?


I recently watched this and was left unsatisfied and confused. Am I missing something that most people got from it?

Sure it was artistically shot, the actors did great, and Ritchie always brings the cool and trendy look and feel to it, but the storyline sucked. Maybe some people love being confused and having to make their own interpretation of the movie in their mind but I watch movies to be entertained, and confusion isn't entertaining..

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i saw this movie today, and the parts i DID understand was really good!! i love movies with a good twist and a movie that challenges my understanding and that makes me thing and at the end turns what i thought against my reasoning is great!!

how ever, i really need someone to explain this movie a bit:

-Who is Mr Gold?
-If the three of them (Avi, Green, the other big guy), take the money from D's guys and the drugs from the asian guy, who keeps that money? If it is the money they give as a donation, how did Avi and his friend where talked into doing this?
-Why did Green have so many problems in his head?
-How come he didn't die after the 3 days?
-Why didn't Avi and his friend help him when they where in the jacuzzi??
-Why did Green give his money to Avi if he was going to die in 3 days anyway?

If i think of any more questions ill post them later.

THANKS!!

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Taking a stab at your questions

-Who is Mr Gold? ( Its a character that represents power and does not exist , possibly created by Avi and the other guy)
-If the three of them (Avi, Green, the other big guy), take the money from D's guys and the drugs from the asian guy, who keeps that money?

If it is the money they give as a donation, how did Avi and his friend where talked into doing this? (Avi and his friends did not care about the money more about breaking Ray's character and opening Green's eyes)

-Why did Green have so many problems in his head? ( DOnt we all )

-How come he didn't die after the 3 days? ( That was a fake result propably planted by Avi to get Green on board with the idea of giving up everything)

-Why didn't Avi and his friend help him when they where in the jacuzzi?? ( Because he still had not learnt his lesson about letting his ego control him in the previous scene when he tried to rescue the guy by pointing the gun at Avi)


-Why did Green give his money to Avi if he was going to die in 3 days anyway? because Avi offered him a chane to take revenge at green and keep him safe for the 3 days

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How is it that anything is possible for Avi and friends?
Why are they so concerned about Green?
Why are they trying to break Ray's character?
Why did Green pass out near the stairs if he wasn't sick in the first place?
Why didn't Green die during the hit?
Why did Green trust Avi and friends?

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How is it that anything is possible for Avi and friends?
Dont understand the question.



Why are they so concerned about Green? If by they, you mean Avi and Fat guy. They were the two cons in prison with him. They were the guys that taught him every trick he knew. They say at the end "We were always going to take you with us Jake, You had to be ready first"

Why are they trying to break Ray's character? They deemed Jake as family and Macha was the person that put Jake in prison.


Why did Green pass out near the stairs if he wasn't sick in the first place? Guy said it had something to do with him "falling from grace" or his "pride before the fall" symbolism. Jake was handed a card that said "Dont take the stairs" and he did it anyway.

Why didn't Green die during the hit? He had began to let go in a way. He wasnt the only one changing. Sorter spoke in the car after the hit about not understanding how he missed. And later with Macha, saying "something didnt feel right".

Why did Green trust Avi and friends? He didnt. His ego was talking to him about being conned the whole time. His "emotional investment" was too large for him to not do it. Remember the keys to a con.

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How come the Fat Guy knew the exact time Jake had to pick up the paper to evade Sorter's perfect shot?

That one has no explanation. My guess would be that Jake, Avi, Fat Guy and Mr. Gold are the same person. Jake has multiple personality disorder and set this up from the beginning once out of jail. One part of his subconscious was working against the opposite part, the one that was called "Ego".

Since this movie is pretty mystical in nature, I'd assume some of the unexplainable stuff that happens -like Jake dodging Sorter's bullet as if he saw the future or something- is just the surrealist part of the tale. After all, a movie is a story that serves a purpose, and sometimes being realistic isn't one of them.

Heck, if you think The Shinning is a masterpiece, despite it didn't make much sense at times, why would you look down on this one regarding plot holes? A movie is not necessarily supposed to be ruled by the laws o physics to be good.



If you think this one is too deep, check stuff like Donnie Darko, Eraserhead, Mulholland Drive, Adaptation, Primer, Naked Lunch or Synedoche, New York. Now those are real trippers. Hell, just check out 2001: A Space Oddisey, that's an early example of arty films.


now this is acting: http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2458172160/tt1528718

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It's meant to be deep.

But it failed for some of us.

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Too deep.

Next!

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-Who is Mr Gold? Mr Gold isn't real. He represents greed and ego.

-If the three of them (Avi, Green, the other big guy), take the money from D's guys and the drugs from the asian guy, who keeps that money? Donated it to charity.
If it is the money they give as a donation, how did Avi and his friend where talked into doing this? They are all the same person.
-Why did Green have so many problems in his head? Solitary for 7 years.
-How come he didn't die after the 3 days? He wasn't actually sick, it was all in his head.
-Why didn't Avi and his friend help him when they where in the jacuzzi?? They are the same person.
-Why did Green give his money to Avi if he was going to die in 3 days anyway? Green wanted to get Mr Gold out of his head, so he (the part that is represented by Avi and the other guy) thought up an elaborate plan of how he could get himself to do it.

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I had to watch it a few times 'til I started to understand, and even after that, the British version had a slightly different storyline to grasp. I liked the British version more though. :)

The ending credits of the American version has interviews about the "ego" you should listen to, it helps.

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"-Who is Mr Gold? Mr Gold isn't real. He represents greed and ego.

-If the three of them (Avi, Green, the other big guy), take the money from D's guys and the drugs from the asian guy, who keeps that money? Donated it to charity.
If it is the money they give as a donation, how di..."



Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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I jusr watched this and just wondering..

If Mr Gold doesn't exist, does "Walker" (the female/lady) work for anybody and if why does she say she works for Mr Gold? Or is she not real?? I can't see what this is symbolising *if* it is symbolising anything? Because if she isn't real, this how much of this actually is real?


Besides Mr Gold and "walker" not being explained *at least enough for me to get why she was in the movie????????????? I really liked when it hit me how Green was talking about the 2 prison 'mates' which were the 2 guys he was 'working for/with'

And just for clarification, if my question about "what is real and not real", was Jake Green 'real' for the sake of the story and/or was he Macha or was there actually a story of them 2 'fighting' the way they did? I don't actually get the ultimate storyline of Macha vs Green, what was it's purpose if it was supposed to have served one. I get how the 2 guys helped Green "forgo his ego" because it was holding him back, at least that's how I interpreted it, but I don't get the "con he was you" and "because we are you" lines/stories?

Forgive what may be naive, I suffer nerve damage related pain and in 24/7 pain and on 200-300mg oxycontin + tramal daily, plus other pain meds, so my thinking may be dulled somewhat.

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I really liked this movie, but I didn't really understand it either. At least I can't be sure that I understand it. I think that some of these explanations are probably right, or at least close but even they are open to interpretation.

To me it seemed possible for everyone in the movie to be the same guy. There was that one scene where a voice in his head was telling him that he was still in prison & that he had never left. I think that maybe he had retreated so far into himself that he created a world and populated it with the various aspects of his psyche.
Good film though, I watched it last night and it was on my mind first thing this morning

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Nope... I don't get most of it either. It sucked me in, in the beginning and I kept watching for everything to be explained. Well almost none of it was! I knew long before who the cell mates were. But so many other questions didn't get explained. It played out like there was a 2 hour movie before this that I missed! VERY DISAPPOINTED! I like the way it was shot and the acting, but on a whole thumbs down. 3 outta 10


*** just read a few more boards and it looks like watching it on the "SLEUTH" channel was a mistake. Someone mentioned Ray Liotta killing himself and that scene wasn't shown when I just watched it. Went to youtube and watched it, but wonder what the hell else they cut out! Not really a movie you can cut friggin' scenes out of!

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this movie sucks.A philosophical movie about hoods?More like,just another bloody gangster movie supposed to be clever,takes itself too seriously, which is incredibly dumb and boring.I couldnt care less who mr.Gold is or anything else.

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Exactly how I felt about the movie.

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I couldn't have put it better myself. The first half hour of the film is really cool and totally gets you. As the movie moves on you keep expecting for that great "something" to happen, that something that will hold all the pieces of the puzzle together... but that something never comes and the puzzle gets all the more confusing to the point that is actually boring. I ended up fast forwarding the last 20 minutes or so of the film.

This is another example of a promising director who did amazingly well in his first films and then somehow lost his touch and is still struggling to get it back.

Come on Mr. Ritchie, I've still got some faith in you.

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There is a kernel of a good story here, unfortunately a lot of it is an unexplainable mess. A lot of people will try to convince you it makes sense by making outlandish jumps of logic that are not entirely plausible within the context or motivations of the characters. When these arguments get broken down by contrary evidence in the film, the Ritchie apologist then hops on the straw dog defense that, "that evidence topples my house of cards I've built on flimsy assumption, therefore that element was simply surreal and irrelevant".

It could have been a good movie, but you come away with a bunch of left-over puzzle pieces that don't fit anywhere into the big picture. Incomplete.

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I thought that this movie had some intriguing plot ideas and characters but wasn't complete, it felt lacking in some way I can't figure out.

Also I always thought Jake Green was Sam Gold, or Sam Gold was one of his other personas. I also wasn't sure sometimes if Avi and the fat guy were real people and not just voices in Jake's head.
One thing for sure is Jake has some deep seeded personality disorder or many of them.

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Yeah I agree. I just watched it. I figured out the big "twist" ending like 30 min in, but still during most of the movie, I was like wtf is going on/wtf is the point of all of this.

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[deleted]

the movie is confusing because it throws together a bunch of incongruous pseudo philosophy nonsense masquerading as profundity and intelligence.

and you'll notice those who give this film positive reviews are either illiterate or incredibly dimwitted, so it definitely has nothing to do with lack of intelligent on your part. don't worry.

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Yeah sorry, colour me stupid or something but I don't get the con and I don't know who conned who or how. It made no sense to me at all :/

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it's amazing how every single poster in this thread took the movie COMPLETELY literally and gave no thought as to what was the actual point of the movie. the plot, the action, the characters, in movies like this none of them are meant to be taken at face value and it's all just a vehicle to get the real point across. this was a movie about EGO, and male power. Which is funny because all of Guy's movies are bang bang shoot em ups dripping with struggles for male power. There's never even any love interests in his movies, which i find amusing.

There's plenty of parts of this movie that are ho hum, but i have to say the scene with ray liotta at the end where you see just how impotent he is is worth the price of admission of sitting through the film. It's strong stuff. Everything that happened before the end of the film was meant to set up that moment, it's what the entire film was about. That ego is what motivates us, yet destroys us.

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[deleted]

Well put.

I felt this one was totally open-ended, with much less conclusivity as to what actually happened and what was made up than Fight Club (for example).

In my mind, there were a few different possibilities.

#1 - the players were all real. The two cell mates helped out because they cared after having been 'together' for 5 years. They commiserated because they saw something of themselves in him and they helped him out because they saw that he was 'smart, but not as smart as he thought he was'. This would basically be 'face value'

#2 - partial reality. Avi and Zach (the fat guy) were not real, just parts of his personality. They were 'part of him', they even were the same person. Additionally, there is Mr Gold. This is the persona that Jake had built up at some point. Possibly before going to jail, where his organization picked up the slack and created an absentee menace. This may even have gone beyond his control. My belief is that Sorter was actually in the employ of Mr Gold. He missed because he was paid to miss. He was there to preserve the life of Macha so as to execute a perfect revenge that cut far deeper than a mere bullet. Note that he only steps in to protect Jake and Jake's family and to preserve Macha.

This is the violent part of Jake's personality. Macha was the enemy, but Jake's purpose was not to drive him insane, but to genuinely apologize and make amends... although rather than giving the money and drugs straight back to him, he donated it to a good cause instead. Jake was seeking resolution, possibly even absolution... to put away the old violent ways... peace.

In this case, Macha was basically representing what Jake viewed as his own future. Paranoid and corrupt. Craving fear in others, but really just plain afraid and wracked with guilt.

In essence, Jake wanted to be free of the prison he had created for himself, which was an unfulfilled life, built on the suffering of others. As Avi said, "You are still in prison." Indicating that Avi and Zach were trying to free him of the real prison - created by his illicit past.

This is likely the scenario that the average movie-goer is supposed to arrive at, but as seen above, it leaves lots of gaps and inconsistencies. This is where the story starts to show some cracks and a third layer peeks through.

#3 - none of it is real. Jake is still in prison. This is even stated once by Avi and could conceivably be taken literally.

Macha is a real figure, a casino owner and the problem of the 3 Eddies did happen. But the Macha of the movie is just a projection of that Macha in Jake's past. And Jake's time outside is completely fabricated as a schizophrenic layer on top of his white reality.

Consider that Jake's life in those two years mirrors almost exactly the character of Macha in the story. But Macha represents something he dislikes about himself. Greedy, violent, domineering...

The story begins with him leaving prison and starting a new life, which is actually a prison of a different form. That new life resembles the life that Macha had and Jake wished he had. The story ends as it does because Macha kills himself and Jake achieves peace.

The man inside his head that spurs him to violence is dying and coincidentally, Macha is falling apart. Macha represents the desires that Jake has for the lifestyle offered by the ego in his head. The entire universe fabricated at the beginning with him leaving prison dissolves because it never was. He's still in that white prison cell - and I would guess that the 7 yrs vs 14 yrs is a fabrication. That's not how prisons work. You don't get a room all to yourself simply because you choose to. Prisons couldn't afford to work that way. Hence, the choice he was given was to follow the path of his ego and be violent, thus ending up in Solitary, as a punishment. But not 7 years. That might simply be how long he has been in solitary before the 'early release' that is fabricated for this story.

#4 - There's a 4th variation which is that Jake Green himself doesn't exist at all, but all of this is happening inside Macha's head. Jake's dark side is the Ego, which attempts to achieve long-term benefits in a twisted and violent way. But the Jake of the story is actually a Super-Ego. The balance of a guilty conscience that just keeps getting stronger as Macha's grip on reality gets weaker. Ending with suicide.

This is the most unlikely of my ideas, but I still think it's a fun one to roll around in the brain... The first 3 are all equally legitimate possibilities to me though, and I like the idea of the movie being ambiguous.

*

You really get the sense that the idea of 'making you feel stupid' in an effort to trick you is coming through the 4th wall in the final chess scene. Jake is figuring out how he had been played in the chess game, but the perspective is unusual and feels much more immersive than other games. Everything up to that point could have been a deception, but Jake's struggle is determining which players are real. And his inability to do so is reflected upon us as viewers.

I liked it open-ended and I liked it overall.

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What a brilliant post. This is the sort of post one looks for in the boards. Not some blind support or hatred towards movies.

You've brought out your interpretations well and what more? All four are well possible. Especially the fourth one is starting to haunt me from the time I read it. It sort of works too.

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This is a pretty good answer. Here's my take on it -

Mr Green. Interesting name, green of course is the colour of envy, there's a clue right there.

Mr Gold is undoubtedly his ego and represents greed (Gold) and invincibility. This is why Mr Gold never appears and is something everyone fears apart of course from Avi and Zach...

Avi and Zach are his conscience and are always in prison with him but not as 2 different people - they are him. Avi tells him this towards the end ...we are you.

Macha is the evil side to his personality he's trying to kill.

All of this of course is being played out in his head as he struggles to shed the person he was, the reflection he undertook in prison and the person he's trying to become.

An immensely complex film to understand, but the clues are all there.

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