MovieChat Forums > Der Rote Baron (2008) Discussion > In Defense Of The Red Baron

In Defense Of The Red Baron

posted 14 years ago by wamcal
38 replies | jump to latest

I think the message board has been grossly unfair to this movie. I know people have pointed out flaws and I won't dispute them but consider this: The budget on this film was $22 million US dollars (huge by European standards.) By contrast, Sex and The City 2 cost $100 million. I completely understand star salaries, US production and marketing costs but ahem... Maybe these guys bit off more than they could chew hoping to create an epic for American audiences but they still did a great job visually with what they had to spend. I'm sure to the trained eye the planes and maneuvers were inaccurate but I thought the aerial sequences were pretty exciting for us laymen. And as an historian pointed out to me, they re-created the overall military and civilian environment with painstaking detail. Also, I take into account what I believe is the point of this movie. Germans have been apologizing for years (and rightfully so) for the heinous aspects of their history. Shame is part of their national psyche. These people endeavored to make an anti-war film while at the same time honoring their heroes and celebrating some noble parts of their past. Although created or embellished, plot devices like the meetings with Brown or even the love interest served this purpose well and propelled Richthofen's personal evolution... and...No story? I disagree. There were some problems but at heart it's about a phenomenal WWI flying ace and warrior with scruples, relationships with people around him, and snapshots of his career. It's all pretty basic- He flew, he led, he fought, and he died. Much more than that and they REALLY would have been making stuff up or getting off topic. I had mixed feelings about not showing his last dogfight but I think the filmmakers may have been going for a more poetic ending where we respect his life, not his death. For me, I thought it was a decent glimpse of a legend made real and what it was like on the the other side of the history I've been taught as an American.

[–] uzair_topian 14 years ago

@ Wamcal

I couldn't agree more!

[–] chrismahon2005 14 years ago

Yes great defense, i loved this film, great to see from the other side of the hill so to speak

[–] joan_freyer 14 years ago

I have just seen the film on DVD and I enjoyed it. The special effect fight scenes were very convincing even if they did not really fly the planes (which I gather people felt miffed about). The production looked historically correct. The lead actor as handsome (ok eye candy!) and a good actor too.

I thought the script was a bit heavy but I admired the fact the film tried to show all sides and show a professional soldier who also realized the dubious role he was playing in progaganda to keep a losing war going. The plot nicely linked the air battles with the ugly reality on the ground in the trenches.

The romance might be forced but they needed a symbolic advocate to awaken his conscience to what was going on. Brown poping up too conveniently over and over might have been fiction (he apparently most likely did not shot the baron down) but again they needed to show both sides of the war so it was poetic license.

Generally all around I gave the film a B plus for trying.

J E F Rose

[–] mgreen92 14 years ago

This movie was very good. Likely the best WW1 air combat movie seance 'The blue Max'.
It depicted well, the pressure's on a young man who was not only the biggest "rock star" of his time, but faced death every day.
The love story was a bit silly, but who knows? I'm sure thousands of woman were throwing themselves at that man.
The Brown silliness was the worst part, but the airplanes looked good. The flying scenes were a bit silly as well, but for the layperson, no one would notice.
With the budget they had, I say GREAT JOB!!
Mark Green

[–] rosalee_adams 14 years ago

Concur. Frankly, I can't agree with the whining about it e.g. not being a love story b but about a pilot who liked to fly and shoot down enemies, as I think one comment stated...
During my years of service in the Navy I was privileged to spend a few years with aviation and saw the pilots and navigational flight officers close up. Much of what they reflected in the film was part of their make up even when I served, e.g. our air station held a fighter aces convention. Aces from all over the world attended. They played golf and had a dinner etc., but what fascinated me was meeting them in person.
I also knew a pilot who owned a biplane with the squadron colors splashed all over it. Mike was a huge fan of the von Richthofen........I owned a lovely white silk scarf and a Snoopy 'the Red Baron' pin which I wore on my flight suit. They were gifts from pilots who I knew.
I loved this film as it covered some of the psychological makeup of the men who flew these amazing machines.

[–] mccollum26 9 years ago

I only knew "The Red Baron"as a Snoopy character until I saw this movie. It's not perfect, but it got me interested to know more about the history and the man. For that, it's great! I'm so glad that I saw it!

[–] HenryCW 9 years ago

The Great Pumpkin and the Red Baron were two important characters that Charlie Brown and Snoopy were obsessed with all the time, but they never appeared in the comics.

[–] the_program 14 years ago

I couldn't agree more with this persons comment on this film. I am a collector of WWI fighter memorabilia and have several paintings of Richthofen and Voss's air combat scenes. The planes in the film (Richthofen and Voss Fokker DR1)were very true to form. They went to a lot of trouble to make the aircraft as authentic as possible. As mentioned though, the dialog fell flat on its face at times and there is just so much they could have done that would have made this an epic film surrounding Richthofen and his flying circus.Its a shame really,Richthofen and Voss together could have made up the central characters for this movie with all of their accomplishments. I would love to see someone re-make this film with a better budget and shoot this as an action film as it really deserves to be.

[–] jmartz11 13 years ago

Where can I find it on DVD ?

[–] stalinfalcon 13 years ago

Netflix it.

[–] jmartz11 13 years ago

I got it for a present and it has french subtitiles? how do I get rid of them? that is the only flaw i see !!!

[–] HenryCW 13 years ago

What Region is that? I have the Region 1 DVD in which the film is in English (no choice). For the subtitles, you can either (i) have French subtitles or (ii) turn subtitles off totally. This shows clearly, I think, the cheap production value of the film, which is reflected in the lack of features for the DVD. You hardly ever see a film with English for the dialogue and does not even have English subtitles.

But by saying that your cannot "get rid of" French subtitles, you mean you can't even turn off subtitles totally, then I don't know why. Look at the Main Menu of the DVD to see if you have overlooked something.

[–] Bry-2 13 years ago

The Netflix BD has a very interesting "making of" documentary and subtitles available in English and French -- but this is the English language version, not a dubbed German release. 106 minutes.

I was very impressed with it! It certainly outshone that POS Flyboys (2006).

8/10

--If they move, kill 'em!

[–] malonedave-1 13 years ago

As for the literary licenses that they took with Von Richtofen... as far as I'm concerned, this guy had such a spectacular life that there really was no good reason to take any literary license. The real story was thrilling enough. They should have stuck to that and made a more decent movie.

Also, the difference between this film and The Blue Max is that this film was shot with CGI technoloty. The Blue Max came out in the mid '60s when there was no such thing. That film was pure stunt flying, not to mention a film with a better script.

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] murad23 12 years ago

I agree with this. Richtofen has been the subject of a lot of scholarly study. He was obsessed with fame and became obsessed with his kills.

There is nothign wrong with that. Successful fighter pilots need to be arrogant and extremely aggressive. Richtofen excelled at both. There is zero evidence he felt any sympathy for those he killed, zero evidence he had any doubts or remorse, and every evidence that he strove night and day to kill as many allied airmen as possible.

Richtofen was known to go after already damaged planes, unarmed planes, anything that would increase his kills. That is war.

This fil's bizarre take on Richtofen is frankly absurd.

[–] WhiskeyRiver-AZ 12 years ago

Actually,Manfred's mother wrote a biography,and in it,she wrote about how he became unreachable,and that she knew he was unhappy about the war and the manner in which he was being used.Yes,he did have those cups,erly in his career,but in his auto-bio,he wrote that what he had written about his life(the cups,etc) was him being arrogant.Also,that he was no longer that person. His views on the war had changed.If you read both books,you'll have a new view of the man who died at 25,doing what he loved most.Flying.
ps,..I loved this movie.Oodles!And,I dont acre about the mistakes in it.I'm just glad they made it in two languages.English and German.They had to film it twice,ya know,to do that.

"If it's death from a Saxon sword that frightens you,..stay home"

[–] richimorton 12 years ago

OP : I actually quite liked the aerial scenes with the guy up front in the 'Royal Mail' plane standing up with a machine gun & shooting the whole sky up . Not bad .

That which does not Kill me makes me Stranger