Political Correctness


i saw the R.B.movie recently and was surprised to see the Star Or David on one of the planes.i don't think this would have been permitted in reality. also when the jew pilot is shot and killed , Richoffen is crying and hugging him.i don't think he would do that, not because he was an anti-semite, but because death was common and everday,and he was used to it . this part was just Political Correctness.

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The Star of David was used on churches even,and are still.Ones that arent Jewish either.So,for them to be on a plane,and the plane of a Jewish flyer is not a problem.As to Von Richthofen crying over his friend,why wouldnt he? He was,after all,only a boy of 25,..not an older man,capable of hiding it all. He lost every one of his friends in real life,and by then,he might have been jaded,..but not before.
"If it's death from a Saxon sword that frightens you,..stay home"

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i totally disagree. it is a problem,cause i never seen or heard of The Star of David on a Germam plane .this was just P.C. nonsense. only a "boy" of 25? hardly a boy. Richthofen was an experance pilot with dozens of killes, and if he were to cry over every death he would gone nuts.

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We each have our own opinions. If you dont care for mine,oh well. :)
"If it's death from a Saxon sword that frightens you,..stay home"

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yes we do,but mines are right. the Star OF David on the plane ,and Richthofen crying over a dead jew pilot,is just the producers of this film trying to suck up to the jews.

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Whatever.Actually,it is said in the credits that the Jewish pilot was a tribute to all the Jewish pilots and soldiers that served in WWI.Not a suck up.(you must not like Jewish people to say that) Perhaps you might what to watch it again,and see if I am right. Oh,..since you are into being right,..it is 'mine',not 'mines'.There is no 's' in the word.Even if your first language isnt English,..remember,..being right.One more thing,..Von Richthofen wasnt a racist either,or a Nazi.All that hadnt begun in Germany yet.

"If it's death from a Saxon sword that frightens you,..stay home"

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yes, but why only a tribute to jew pilots? what about other pilots that flew for Germany? this was strictly a suck up job. since you don't even know me how do you know who i like or don't like.jews are just other people, some i like ,some i don't.

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Well,I can ask the same of you,since you dont even know me.How do you know who I like and who I dont like. You just want to argue about something,...anything.So,go ahead.I'm game,..of you are.Firstly,why did it bother you that they sucked up to Jews,..thats what you believe they did anyway.I dont,personally.

"If it's death from a Saxon sword that frightens you,..stay home"

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why did it bother me that they sucked up to the jews or anybody?
because it totally screwed up this movie, and made what could have been a great movie about WW1 flying aces,into a piece of cartoonish crap.

while Richtofen was no 1940's nazi, he was no 2012 bleeding heart liberal.which brings me back to my original point, he would not have been sniffling and crying over a dead jew.

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No,he wouldnt have been sniffling over some Jew,..however,this particular Jew(in the film) was his friend. Why not just get over the way some bits bug you,and let it go.I mean,you said it might have been a great movie,..and so it is,..if you let it be.
"If it's death from a Saxon sword that frightens you,..stay home"

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yea, but why a jew, not another German, Austrain, Hungarian? think...suck up job.

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Why not a German?? The movie is about Germans.I just dont get why it matters so much to you that you would go on and on about it,mtlukie. It's just a very entertaining film,.not a commentary on the different nationalities on the world.
C'mon,..there's really a lot of good in this movie,..if you'll just stop thinking about this one thing. :)

"If it's death from a Saxon sword that frightens you,..stay home"

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i fully agree,this movie is about Germans and not about jews.i just dont get why it matters to you so much,that it matters to me so much,WhiskeyRiver.it may be enteraining to you, but it certainly not factual.

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Good Lord,..you are sooo easy to keep going.Jesus. As to Red Baron being a factual film,if I wanted factual,I'd watch a documentary,..not a movie meant for entertainment purposes.Also,it wasnt Hollywood that made this movie,..it was the Germans who did it,so I guess they wanted to put something in to let people know they realized that the Jewish soldiers and flyers were remembered,since Hitler had done his best to make them go away.Why does it bother me that the Jew aspect bothers you? It saddens me to find someone spending so much energy being so very negative about something so small. All I am trying to do is to get you to see that it doesnt matter.Not to anyone,..but you.Besides this is fun,waiting to see how long it will take you to realize this. (not being mean) :)
"If it's death from a Saxon sword that frightens you,..stay home"

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Hi, Whiskey: I am posting with you because I just put the OP on ignore as he just entered the realm of terminal dullness.

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LoL,..:)

"If it's death from a Saxon sword that frightens you,..stay home"

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Good Lord... entertaintment? this movie is only "entertainment",if you have the I.Q. of a hamster.its an insult to peoples intelligence.putting a jew and the Star of David in a Richthofen movie, would be like making a movie about the Israely A.F.and putting a swastika on one of thier planes.
i wonder if you would find that"something so small and it doesnt matter", and if you would find that "entertaintment" ?

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Frankly,this is now getting boring,..the fun is gone,since you are attacking me instead if just debating with me,which I enjoyed.I wasnt rude to you,and you just seem to want to be really rude to me. I told you we each have our own opinions,and that isnt enough for you.Oh,and also,..this 'Hamster" has traveled more of the world,done more things,seen more things,and learned more things,than I can bet you will ever have.And dont even attempt to refute that,..it wont work.You just have no idea with whom you are talking.If you want to call names go ahead.I'm bigger than that.
The end.
Goodbye,mtlukie.

"If it's death from a Saxon sword that frightens you,..stay home"

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Your antisemitism is quite obvious from your constant complaining about the "dead jew". Jews weren't the "enemy of the Fatherland" during WW1 as they were during Herr Hitler's rise to power. As a matter of fact, there were Jewish groups that urged the US to enter the war on the side of GERMANY. And how do you know who he cried for and who he didn't? So, one scene changed the entire movie from "a great movie about WW1 flying aces, (sic) into a piece of cartoonish crap"? Try as you might, you can't hide your true feelings.

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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So i guess the "dead jew" was not dead after all???
In fact there were Jews in Hitler's army units in the WW1.
TRY as you might,you can't hide that you are stupid.

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Where did I claim otherwise, Adolph?

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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why does the term "dead jew"bother you so much,Menachem or is it Benjamin?

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"perhaps you might 'WHAT'to watch it again".and you are giving me spelling lessons ?

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Dude, you have absolutely NO ground to stand on in the grammar police arena. It sounds as if English is not your native language. Regardless, there is this thing called spell check......

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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Dude,don't worry about the grammar police, frankly i an more worried about your thought police.

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The character Friedrich Sternberg was the only fictional character in the film and was meant to be a composite character representing the Jewish flyers that fought for the Kaiser. I doubt any pilot actually had a Star of David on his scout, but since that was the First World War and not Hitler’s Nazi Germany, it was not altogether impossible. The German flyers (unlike their British counterpart), were allowed much liberty in the painting of their planes. Many “patriotic” Jewish financiers supported the German war effort by buying war bonds and were impoverished when Germany lost. The Star of David was unlikely, but might not have been as offensive to the eye as, say, two decades later.

I agree with you completely, however, that the reaction of Richthofen to the deaths of his comrades (Sternberg, Wolff, and Voss) was totally unrealistic. The problem was not that he broke down once, but rather that he behaved consistently in that manner. Had that really happened, he would have been relieved of his command immediately. A leader had to be able to control himself, and the way he acted was certainly no way to inspire his men. Other films on the air war like The Blue max, Aces High, 633 Squadron, had in general been far more realistic (and more accurate) – as we learn from accounts from those eras – in depicting how the airmen behaved. They talked about losses in a matter-of-fact manner and then went on to spend the nights drinking and frolicking as if nothing had happened. They needed to relieve their tension, and also they were realistic enough to realize that they didn’t really have the luxury to mourn for the fallen when tomorrow they would probably meet the same fate.

When people here talk about anachronism in a film, they often refer to equipment, dresses, etc. But for this film the greatest anachronisms are in social customs, attitudes, and codes of behavior. Other than what you mentioned, it was unimaginable that the Kaiser would allow a captain, no matter how many planes he had shot down, to question Germany’s cause. Richthofen would have been reprimanded severely, labeled a coward, and probably had his ranks removed and sent to hard labor. It was equally ridiculous that the same lowly captain had a "nurse" staying with him, and that she emerged from his tent wearing a nightgown on the day of his last flight.

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i totally agree with your post, and you explained even better than i did.people like WHISKEY-RIVER are either stupid or naive to believe that Richthofen or any pilot would cry like a little baby over other dead pilots. the Star of David was very unlikely in 1916,before even the creation of the state of Israel.

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But it was on some German aircraft of WW1. Google is your friend!

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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"But it was on some German aircraft of WW1".SOME,but why put it in the movie? to suck up to the Jews?

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Prove that was why, Adolph.

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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unfortunately for Germany they now have to peddle thier war heroes as weak kneened sniffling,whinning pacifist cry babies. none of the victorous countries like the Americans,Brits,or the former Soviets would show thier war heroes in such a disgusting manner.

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Well you know Germany does have that 'past history' it needs to be aware of; if there are going to be movies showing German Soldiers, Sailors or Airmen as even 'semi-heroic', it is going to have to be done by a non German film-maker--see Peckinpah's 'Cross of Iron' as an example---those landsers were dirty, rude, cynical & uncouth but they were totally loyal to each other & could kick some serious ass when they needed to.

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"Well you know Germany does have that'past history'.
i am not a German,but it seems its always open season for german and germany bashing.how come people like you never bring up the "past history",of U.S.A.(2 atomic bombs on 2 cities),U.S.S.R.(35 million people murdered),the British Empire(imperalist invasion of dozens of nations).i could go on ,but i think you get the idea.

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All of which hardly compares with a Nation-State that actually engaged in a continent wide industrialized effort to exterminate a specific race/group of people that touched off a war that ended up killing seventy million people in a little over 6 years...perspective dude...perspective.

Besides I thought we bombed the camel piss out of more than just 'two' cities during Dubya Dubya Too....

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Perspective dude...perspective.
the Nation-State of the U.S.S.R.exterminated 35 million people,The Peoples Republic Of China 70 million in peacetime.but i guess they are not your people,so you dont give a damn.

U.S.A. bombing. i was refering to the nuking of the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasakie, during the Second World War. "past history" dude.

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Yeah but it took the USSR & the PRC a couple of decades to 'do the deed', while it took the Germans a little under 6 years; and in any case, "Dude", they kept their carnage 'in house'....

Now don't get me wrong, I have to be totally honest with you: I too, am a bit of a fan of German 'feats of arms' going all the way back to Marshal Blucher & going forward to guys like Adolph Galland & Erich Hartmann.

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yeah but the USSR and the PRC did the ``deed``when they weren't at war, like Germany was.
Dude,what you are saying, that it is alright to exterminate tens millions of inocent people as long its 'in house'.at least the Germans have an excuse... they were at war.

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Nah...it ain't OK; the Germans were at war because they started said war...one can say they started the war with the express purpose of expanding their territory & enslaving/killing 'inferior races' found within.

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actually dude, you dont know your "past history".it was in fact the Brits under Churchill and thier French allies who declared war on Germany and started what went on to become WW2.Hitler and Germany only wanted the lands that were stolen from them after the First World War.

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Yes...all Chancellor Hitler wanted was 'Peace'-peace-peace--piece:
A little piece of Poland; A little piece of France; A little piece of Hungary & Austria per chance....

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yes... Chancellor Hilter didnt want world war that he knew he would lose."a piece of Poland,piece of France"was in fact a piece of Germany that it lost under the Treaty Of Versailles in 1919.Germany lost(stolen)Upper Selesia, the "Polish corridor", city of Danzig,Alsace,Lorraine,etc.Germany had to give up 13% of its territory and 7% of its population.

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Well, well, 'hotsy, totsy, another Nazi'. You started and lost both wars, disastrously. That filth, Hitler, wasn't even a german. After all of the devastation he wrought, and after he finally realized that they could NEVER win, he basically damned all the germans by saying they didn't fight hard enough and deserved to be destroyed. And back to the initial post, Jews (that's with a capital letter, Adolf)did fight in WWI and, amazingly and surreptitiously, in WWII for the german side! Richtofen may have indeed cried over his slain friend, who would have been a Jew, as well as a german. Yes, stars of David were painted on the side of some planes flown by german aviators, who were Jewish. This is WWI, not WWII. Always remember how quickly your german womenfolk in Berlin, became so well acquainted with their russian 'liberators' when they took Berlin. Wonder if it lead to a lot of german/russian kinder! Oh well, and goodbye. But, remember, YOU LOST!

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[deleted]

Dear hotsy, totsy: Nope - you lost the bet (as well as the wars)...I'm not a Jew. Yes, good thing Churchill and Britain declared war. You might think without reason. Oh well, some never learn.

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well hotsy,totsy­. i havent heard from you since your last hate mail in Sept.
Germany lost the war but your boyfriend Churchill and you British *beep* lost your whole Empire and became a third class *beep* country and the war was totally unnessary.you limmeys should went with Hitler and the 3rd Riech.
OH WELL,SOME WILL NEVER LEARN.

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Germany did NOT start WW1.

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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actually dude, you dont know your "past history".it was in fact the Brits under Churchill and thier French allies who declared war on Germany and started what went on to become WW2.Hitler and Germany only wanted the lands that were stolen from them after the First World War.

Like Czechoslovakia or Poland?

"Any plan that involves losing your hat is a BAD plan.""

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exactly,part of Czechoslovakia was in fact Sudetenland,mostly german,the western part of Poland was Prussia,that Germany lost after the First World War.

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Aw Shucks - Germany lost the wars. Tsk, tsk.

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by the way,Britain before the war was a World Super Power,after Germany got thru with it,it went from a bulldog to a castrated poodle of the U.S.A.
Aw Shucks. TSK,TSK.

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The western part of Poland was part of the state of Prussia only because the Prussians stole it in the first place. Same with the Sudetenland, the German speaking people of the region weren't native to that land, the Slavs were, and, regardless, it was part of Austria-Hungry, not the German Empire.

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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And who did your darling innocent Slavs steal all this land from originally?
Or were they there since Adam and Eve,or the beginning of time?

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"Stolen" from them?? Austria was "stolen" from them? Poland was "stolen" from them? The Sudetenland was "stolen" from them? The countries that made up the Soviet Union were "stolen" from them? The Brits and the French came to the aid of Poland, whom Germany had invaded. Exactly where did you learn your version of history? Skinhead U.?


This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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Exactly where did you learn your version of history? Jerkhead U.?
YES,YES,YES,YES,and YES.
"Brits and the French came to the aid of Poland".are you serious or are just joking?so thats why the Germans were able to annihilate Poland in a few weeks?

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Are you really this ignorant or just a troll?

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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You are an ignorant troll. so you actually didn't know that Germany defeated Poland? INCREDIBLE!

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Germany did not take all of Poland, dupa. Considering Germany crossed the Polish border on September 1, 1939, and France and England didn't declare war on Germany until September 3, 1939, how, exactly, did they, and not Germany, start the war? It's obvious you're a troll or not worth the effort (both, actually) so you can come back with another half witted retort, but you'll be talking to yourself. And, of course, the voices only you can hear.



This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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Dupa,can you not read English?when did i say that Germany took all of Poland?Germany took the weastern part of Poland and the Soviets took the eastern part.i thought that was self explanatory.
Again dupa,let me explain to you.up until Sept 1,it was only a border conflict between Germany and Poland.on Sept 3,as you have stated,when France and England declared war on Germany,THEY turned it into the Second World War. Duhhh.

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The Final Solution had nothing to do with the war. The Nazis were trying to eradicate Jews from the face of the Earth. Why are you trying to excuse what they did? I think we all know the reason.

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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If you bothered to read Mien Kamp you would know that Hitler only wanted to deport the Jews and not "eradicate" them.i an not trying to excuse anything.
"I think we all know the reason".
I think you know nothing at all,especially the facts of history.

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What he wrote in a book 20 years earlier and what actually happened are two totally different things. You claim you're not excusing them, but you sure are defending them.

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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They are two different things,because Britain declared war on Germany in 1939,and started WW2.if there was no war we wouldn't be talking about this subjct now.

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Soooo, Germany invading Poland had nothing to do with the start of WWII? Just how ignorant are you?

Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something.

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[deleted]

Watch Das Boot. Heroic WW2 Germans by a German film maker. Excellent film, too.

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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I Googled "star of david on german ww1 airplanes" and there were indeed German planes with the six pointed star on them. One picture looks to be the same black and tan model in the movie, and another is rather famous, as it's allegedly a dig at Goering.

http://phpbb.69giap.com/viewtopic.php?t=4594&sid=14df45a8245338e38e0bb617abc2252a


This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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Why did they need Sternberg as a fictional representative of all Jewish pilots, when they had Werner Voss, who was famous as "The Jew with the Blue Max"?

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Sternberg is a completely fictious charcater. He should represent all Jewish pilots who have fought in WWI for Germany.
On the other hand Göring was omitted and Richthofen's view of the war was changed to that what liberal think of it today.



Ich bin kein ausgeklügelt Buch, ich bin ein Mensch mit seinem Widerspruch.
Conrad Ferdinand Meyer

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i agree, which is what i said in my original post.this movie is left wing liberal P.C. crap.

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Sternberg is a sort of amalgamation of these gentlemen.
http://ldn-knigi.lib.ru/JUDAICA/Flieger/Jued_Flieg1.htm
There is a rather ironic twist to this whole debate in a photo halfway down.

"Any plan that involves losing your hat is a BAD plan.""

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Goering didn't join Jagdgeschwader 1 until three months after the Baron was killed, so why would he have been mentioned?

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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Here ya go:

http://www.warandtactics.com/smf/world-war-1-pictures/bi-plane-with-star-of-david-and-german-markings-help-identify-please1/




"Hitler! C'mon, I'll buy you a glass of lemonade."

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so one plane may have had the star, or not.the picture could be a fake.why put this in the movie?Political Correctness,jew propaganda?


Hitler?? what does he have to do with this movie about WW1, other that he was a Corporal then?

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The Hitler line is called a signature. It's from the movie Max.

Did you see the end of the movie when they give a synopsis of the primary characters? The Jewish pilot was a composite of many Jewish pilots who flew during the war. There are numerous pictures of the Star of David on planes from WWI.













"Hitler! C'mon, I'll buy you a glass of lemonade."

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I didn't see the movie Max,and what does it have to do with this movie?

there were Jewish pilots during the war and maybe the Star of David.there were jews in Hitler's army unit.the point is why single out jews or their religion in the movie?they didn't single any other religion or ethnic people.

Answer.Political Correctness.

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My signature has nothing to do with this movie. Do you know what a signature is on a message board?



As for the Star. You think it's political correctness (why it would be, I have no idea). I think it's historically accurate.

Some planes (on both sides) had swastikas on them. If they were politically correct with a Star of David, why didn't they show a swastika?







"Hitler! C'mon, I'll buy you a glass of lemonade."

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"My signature has nothing to do with this movie".

your signature is ridiculous.what does Hitler have to do with lemonade?

"why didn't they show a swastika?"

well duhh, thats exactly my point!! the Star of David is politically correct,while the swastika is politically INCORRECT now a days.

theres your answer.

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My sig is a quote from the movie Max. Max, played by John Cusack offers Hitler a glass of lemonade.

Why are you so hung up on a signature?





"Hitler! C'mon, I'll buy you a glass of lemonade."

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"why are you so hung up on a signature?"

i an not "so hung up",but other than the people that have seen the movie Max, your sig makes no sense.

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You should see the movie. It's pretty good.






"Hitler! C'mon, I'll buy you a glass of lemonade."

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o.k.,i checked it out on IMDB.how is Hitler portrayed in this movie,the usual way,a cartoon character,a raving maniac,or as a real person?

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He's portrayed as a real person. As he's trying to advance his Art career, he gets involved with German soldiers who were upset how WWI ended. He then ties Art with propaganda. It's an interesting idea.






"Hitler! C'mon, I'll buy you a glass of lemonade."

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There are numerous pictures of the Star of David on planes from WWI...

Can you give just ONE example? While there were certainly Jewish flyers for Germany and I actually collected pictures of WWI German planes, I have not yet seen the actual picture of a plane with the Star of David on it. I am not saying that it is impossible to find one, but I doubt the cases were so "numerous". Please read my earlier post in this thread.

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Look above, I already posed a link.






"Hitler! C'mon, I'll buy you a glass of lemonade."

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Interesting, but one does not make "numerous" though. That word might be more appropriate in describing the number of Jewish flyers.

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