MovieChat Forums > Feux rouges (2004) Discussion > Some questions (spoiler alert)

Some questions (spoiler alert)


Don't read this if you haven't seen the movie yet....
,
,
,
,
A few things puzzled me:

(1) At the first roadblock (when he's chasing the train), the husband barrels through without stopping, but the police just ignore him. Why don't they at least try to chase him?

(2) At the second roadblock, even though the fugitive is sitting in plain view in the passenger seat (and is #1 on the wanted list, and apparently the reason for the roadblock), the police fail to nab him! Are they blind? He doesn't seem to be in disguise (and doesn't seem very worried, either). This led me to conclude (incorrectly) that the hitchhiker wasn't the fugitive after all!

(3) Next day, in the village, we hear the clock strike 1 (presumably 1 PM, since it's daylight). The husband then enters a cafe and it's 11 AM. Huh??

(4) The waitress in the cafe invites him to use the phone, but for local calls only. He then proceeds to call all over France. Why doesn't she object? And later, he asks her to put the charges for the calls on his credit card. How is she supposed to know what the charges are, until the bill arrives? Or is this possible, with the French phone system?

(5) Not directly related to the movie: What are those little curved arrows painted in the middle of the road, between dots on the dotted center line? It's been a while (years) since I drove in Europe, and I don't remember seeing these.

reply

[deleted]

The more I think about this movie, the more inconsistencies turn up...

At the hospital, we see the police looking under the husband's car. But... there's no reason, is there, for them to suspect that he's the one who ran over the fugitive? And (even worse), they either fail to see the blood which would be on the car if he had run over him, or just ignore it (hard to believe... even in France, and even if the guy is a total rotter, they'd have to investigate the cause of his death). And the front of the car doesn't have anywhere near as much damage as it ought to from running over him.

Also... when the husband bashes the fugitive's head in with the heavy jack, the violence made the audience in the theater gasp. Surely this guy's brains would have been all over the ground. But a minute later, he's up and walking around: bloody, but with apparently only superficial wounds.

And the business about the time at the cafe: the dialogue repeatedly and gratuitously emphasises the time. This makes it hard to believe that the striking of the clock was just a careless mistake.

(Continued in next post)...

reply

My theory is that these inconsistencies are deliberate clues by the filmmaker that the incident with the hitchhiker/fugitive didn't "really" happen at all. It's a hallucination, or confabulation made up by the husband in his drunken state. This would also neatly explain the astounding coincidence that he just happens to pick up (and kill) the man who had just attacked his wife! He just imagined (and eventually came to believe) this, as a way of dealing with his guilt about his wife being attacked.

Note other possible clues: there are two places where the husband *is* clearly having a dream or hallucination (during the tire change, and at the motel, later). Could the whole episode of the fugitive be?

Another oddity: the man who sells him whisky at the convenience store has a bandage on his hand. Hmm... could this be the seed (in "real" events) which suggests the fugitive with one useless hand in the hallucination?

reply

This is a very interesting idea. Thanks for proposing it -- I think it's quite plausible.

reply

It would also explain why he got through that second road block with the guy they are searching for sitting obviously in the passenger seat.

reply

I couldn't agree more. You are absolutely correct. There are lots of hints to this theory, although you must pay extreme caution to catch just a few of them. Catching all is almost impossible, unless you just to watch the movie again. But we do have imdb boards, right? :)

This is all just a imagination of a drunk man...

reply

The hitchhiker is completely made up by our protagonist. What we seeing, I believe, is his version of the story as he chooses to believe the events occured. There are enough clues to suggest what the real story was -- that he simply got blitzed and drank himself into a tizzy.

Remember when we see the cop check under the bumper of his car? There would have been evidence of a head-on collision with a human. However, we never saw him run over the hitchhiker. We only see that as part of a dream that he has AFTER he sees that his car is being inspected.

The man who later becomes the hitchhiker is only seen interacting with the rest of the world in the bar, when Antoine talks his ear off and buys him a drink (which, he doesnt touch). I believe he IS there in that scene, as the bartender says something about a tattoo on his hand (dont remember the correct line).

reply

Except at the end when you see them driving off together smiling at each other, the wife is not wearing the diamond necklace. If the rape was part of the dream, she should still be wearing the necklace. Unless this last sequence is also part of the dream which normally is not the case since movies with this dream plot device usually ends with the person waking up and what you see at the end is reality.

reply

I think the necklace was supposed to have been thrown there in anger by the wife when she left to take a taxi to the train station. I think the whole movie would have worked better had it ended the way "The Woman in the Window" ended. That is, the husband would have been dreaming the whole thing on the road. In the first ten minutes of the film the husband would have taken a nap while the wife took a shower..He would have a very bad dream and would awaken in time to let his wife drive.

reply

If so...who raped Helene? That's a true an certain fact on the movie. I don't belive that the fugitive is an alucination of antoine... I though this was a very poor story...by the way...Too much paused moments for a film on this gender. However i did like the performence of the main character (Antoine). I think he"'s" the movie!

reply

ok here's what I think and some spoilers. . . . and I must say thank god for IMDB cause I didn't realise this until I saw this thread. Before that I was thinking "Why the *beep* didn't the police charge him for the murder. This is a big error with this film and one of many. Isn't it too big a co-incidence that the killer actually was run over and killed after raping helene on the train.
One of my first thoughts was How did he get the train and still have time to go back and get the lift with antoine? But Now I see you guys are right. Alas this was another fight club and sixth sense. The killer with antoine didn't exist. HE is infact the only man in the world who can have extremely vivid hallucinations after 3 half pints of lager and a few double whiskies! So who was the man at the bar who the bartender pointed out "had a tattoo on his hand". Or was he there and then when he left he caught the train with helene. Perhaps that is the case because another major worry of mine was 'At what point did Antoine suss that this bloke was the fugative?' Of course if the man was a figment of Antoines Imagination then this matter goes out the window. I will say the acting was flawless and the film was the most compelling I have seen in years. The way the director made us wait so long before certain things were revealed ie what's happened to Helene? Why did the Killer let antoine live?

Basically Antoine could have fallen asleep at the wheel falling into an alcholic coma and dreamt the whole thing.

More flaws that I have just realised....

The policeman says 'some witnesses saw the man at the bar after the train left the station' (this is the fugative we see at the bar with Antoine) 'Other witnesses say the fugative was at the station before the train left'. This is a major plothole as far as I can see. So was he both ... at the bar and on the train?
ALSO!!!! he says we;ll know which IN A FEW days when the DNA tests come back. So how come both are allowed to leave the next morning if its going to take a few days for the test results?

reply

"How did he get the train and still have time to go back and get the lift with antoine?"

Well, that one, at least, is explained in the movie. There are two train stations and two bars. As the story is told, Helene leaves the car while Antoine is in a bar near Tours (that's the one with the weird Irish guy) and takes a taxi to the Tours station. Mantana also got on the train at Tours, presumably attacked Helene right away, and got off at the next station, Ste Maure. All this while Antoine is trying to follow the train in his car. It's at a bar near the Ste Maure station, AFTER the attack, that Antoine meets Mantana and the plot continues.

As for the hand injury, who knows? Perhaps Mantana was injured in the attack on Helene. What I really want to know is ... how the hell do you change a tire with one hand?

reply

What I really want to know is ... how the hell do you change a tire with one hand?
Maybe he didn't manage it because next morning the tire was still flat. The mechanic told that the car had been driven with a flat tire.

reply

Attractive as I find phelpsg1's theories, I don't think the film can support them. Most overtly, because Antoine's 'fantasy' is therefore played out _before_ he knows anything has happened to his wife. Mind you, I would love a plausible explanation for the one-handed fugitive - I was confused by the mention of a tattoo and thought he was perhaps just hiding his hand, but it seemed clear later that it was incapacitiated.

I was hopeful the amazing coincidence of him killing his wife's attacker would come to have some kind of ironic or moralistic signifiance - and I too couldn't understand the actions of the police throughout the film, both at the roadblocks and when interviewing him at the end. I was also confused by the doctor's final questions about pregnancy and miscarriage - I had a sudden thought that the wife was indeed pregnant by her law partner before the attack, which was going to throw the morals of the movie in assigning blame into a fascinating mess - but it seems this was just a passing query?!

My main feeling in the end over this film was that it ran out of plot before it ran out of movie.

reply

also when waking up there are no signs that he has been hit (in the previos scene, his face is bleeding)

reply

[deleted]

[deleted]

spot on. thanks for that.

reply

The clock beats one time at every half hour, so it must have been 10:30am

reply

I don't know about all your questions, but ehre are some possible explanations for a few:

>>(3) Next day, in the village, we hear the clock strike 1 (presumably 1 PM, since it's daylight). The husband then enters a cafe and it's 11 AM. Huh?? <<

Some clocks only strike one time at the half hour. COuld have been 10:30.

>>(4) The waitress in the cafe invites him to use the phone, but for local calls only. He then proceeds to call all over France. Why doesn't she object? And later, he asks her to put the charges for the calls on his credit card. How is she supposed to know what the charges are, until the bill arrives? Or is this possible, with the French phone system? <<

I'd say she doesn't object because she realizes the gravity of the situation. As far as the calls, she may not have even charged him. He likely said that to show that he intended to pay for the calls. Or, maybe she estimated based on the number of calls he made.

I think you pose very good questions about the roadblocks. What's the point of even having the roadblock if the police are going to let the actual fugitive straight through?

reply

[deleted]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont think this flick is simple enough to fit any real generalizations about masculinity, or how Antoine imagined it, etc. I do believe those interpretations can be applied, but I also am positive that our artsy little french man had put enough detail into it to contradict any logical generalizations as if it were a mathmatical problem.



The film begins with Antoine e-mailing his wife from work. "I feel like a young boy going on his first date" he concludes. At this moment we can't help but wonder what sort of extremely romantic event is about to take place. But a minute or two later his wife arrives, and we realize that nothing romantic will happen. The spark had burnt out long ago, and neither of them seem the least bit excited about the trip. Then without a reason he begins to go on a drinking binge.
Now let's think about when he pulls off the road for his first drink. What does he do? He almost swerves into another car like some *beep* maniac. And what's his wifes' reaction? Well, she ironically stays calm and just asks him what's wrong; even though the tension has been building up between them for a while now and she should be screaming.
The entire film is composed of hundreds of these absurd little paradoxes for the sake of structure (a structure that is basically a pretentious ripoff of the subtle one Sergio Leone had used to to critique the western genre in "Once upon the time in the west", but a structure still to say the least.)

The key to the film is what we deduce, or are made to deduce, as we experience it. Every moment in the film's been crafted to either give us a presumption, or to destroy one.

What did you think when the screen faded to black, and then to an airplane? I thought Antoine was dead. I mean the fugitive looked really *beep* pissed off.
What about when he was on the phone, and couldn't find his wife? I thought Antoine killed his wife, imagining she was the fugitive.
Or how the movie intentionally seems just like The Vanishing up until the very moment Antoine finds his wife's note. ehhh? ehh? And these are all major examples; nevermind the small ones like the initial two I had mentioned.





The reason why the cop didn't notice anything when she was checking the car in the end was because by that time it was subtley let known that Red Lights was in fact a "It's a Movie" movie, which is the art-fag elitist version of the "it was all a dream" movie where the logics of reality don't have to apply.
And prolly also so that someone would start a thread on the imdb about it.

hehehe


Well with all that *beep* aside...

The entire part with Antoine drunk with the Fugitive was the bomb. He just wanted to be the killer's closest pal so badly.





"Of course we hate him, but we can't tell him. It would end all the games"

reply

[deleted]

Yes the interview with Cedric Kahn is excellent. Especially since most extras are rubbish on DVDs

reply

"art-fag", huh? Shows you're a homophobe.

reply

great and grounded analysis killjoy. apt nick too.

reply

The episode with the fugitive was a dream. I am surprised that no one has raised the point that the hitchhiker and the fugitive are two different men. The hitchhiker is much younger with more hair, long, bushy side burns, and a goatee. I think the scene in the bar with the bartender pointing out the tattoo on the man's arm is most likely the last real one up to the moment he wakes up on the road next day.

I don't believe Antoine was hallucinating. It was rather a drunken dream in which fiction and reality become one. Perhaps the flat tire was the last thing that Antoine remembered before stopping off the road and falling asleep at the wheel. The hitchhiker's lame arm is in my opinion based on the bartender's observation right before Antoine left the bar. Also, the entire episode with the hitchhiker is so surreal that it immediately raises questions about its authenticity: the road block, the fact that Antoine is not in the least fazed by the fact that he is traveling with an escaped murderer who keeps bullying him and telling him where to drive and when to stop, etc. Antoine is just not the kind of man who would react like that in a similar situation.

I think the movie was excellent for the most part, but I found the ending to be quite unsatisfactory.

reply

the fact that Antoine is not in the least fazed by the fact that he is traveling with an escaped murderer who keeps bullying him and telling him where to drive and when to stop, etc. Antoine is just not the kind of man who would react like that in a similar situation.
He was really drunk and constantly talking without listening. He would have never guessed that the hitchhiker could be the escaped killer. Alcohol also reduces any kind of fear.

reply

(5) the arrows mean that the dotted line will soon become a regular line. It indicates the last opportunity to pass a car in front of you.

reply

>> (3) Next day, in the village, we hear the clock strike 1 (presumably 1 PM,
>> since it's daylight). The husband then enters a cafe and it's 11 AM. Huh??

The clock strikes one if it's "a quarter past ..".
"Half past .." is wo strikes, and accordingly "a quarter to .." ist three strikes.
The full hour is chimed by four short strokes followed by the number of hours as long strokes (or different bells/sounds).

so when our hero walks the streets it's a quarter past something - maybe a quarter past eleven.


reply

I just watched this film for the second time and still enjoyed it, even though I don't completely understand it. But it's head-and-shoulders above a lot of other recent French thrillers that don't make any sense whatever (and seem to be proud of it).

I have ordered a book containing the original Georges Simenon novel and, once I read it, I'll come back and explain everything!

reply

I wondered at some of these things too, and the 'dream' theory does seem the most likely explanation. I was also struck by the abruptness of some of the cuts, which seemed to allow for a passage of time but weren't accompanied by any other typical cues to support this, thereby further implying drea, logic (I might go back and find concrete examples of this).

This might be wrong, but the photos of the dead fugitive and the shot of him under the car seemed to be of a different person than the living fugitive. Maybe it was because the dead one was messed up and only seen briefly though.

What causes pip in poultry?

reply

I wondered if the fugitive was an embodiment of his small man's rage and alluded to the baddie in The Fugitive?

Marlon, Claudia and Dimby the cats 1989-2005, 2007 and 2010.

reply