MovieChat Forums > Black Cloud (2004) Discussion > Too much racism

Too much racism

posted 19 years ago by fionasmommy
30 replies | jump to latest

I had very high hopes for this movie. Eddie Spears was excellent in Dream Catcher and The Slaughter Rule, and this story seemed like like it was made for the big screen.

Unfortunately, the undercurrent of racism in this film detracts from everything good about it. Black Cloud is constantly whinging about how much he hates white people, and he goes crazy when he finds out his great-great grandfather ws white. Oh, the horror! There's also a couple of scenes where Black Cloud is hanging out with the loser "mixed-bloods" who apparently do nothing but drink and party. Must be that white blood in them that makes 'em get all CRAAAAZY!

We're never given any back story for Black Cloud's racism, or shown any reason why he might feel that way. He does have run-ins with white men from border towns, but even prior to that Black Cloud is constantly ranting against whites in general, making sweeping accusations about their "kind" and what they're like. For a kid from Arizona, it's amazing that he knows what all "white" people are like. It's also amazing that not one of the wise elders around him bothers to smack him upside the head and tell him to shut up and stop being so simple minded.

Beautfiful film, great supporting cast, but it's really hard to pull for a hero who is so incredibly ignorant.

[–] sheenamarie60 19 years ago

I actually agree, and I haven't seen the movie yet! TOMORROW I'll get the chance to watch it. But my auntie watched it, loved it... and also said it was full of racism... and she's a huge Tim McGraw fan!! But she said the racism went both ways... but as for the hero being a racist... I'll be the judge of that myself... though I don't doubt your opinion. Your opinion seems intelligent and reasonable enough.

Nathaniel is AWESOME by the way... haha... I had too. Sorry.

[–] sheenamarie60 19 years ago

Great Movie...

I felt Mr. Black Cloud got over his ignorance and hate for 'whites' in the end. It was a good movie! And... The Hero wasn't the only racist in the movie... Come on... seeing it from his point of view [Race] isn't so horrible. Anything that has to do with racism is going to hit the wrong spots... but this movie didn't really go all out and over the top. It was a good movie... and I'm going to watch it again... and again... and then return it to the video store. :)

I think the point of the movie is getting around racism and ignorance... of course the movie is going to show some of the opposite before turning it around in the end. I liked the movie. I'm sorry.

Nathaniel's a riot. I love that guy.

[–] xanadu007 19 years ago

yes he's rascist at the beginning and then he overcomes it by the end, did you watch the whole movie? When he comes to terms with his mixed blood he gets over it.

Let's make a movie where the main character doesn't undergo any sort of transformation, we'll call it the "most boring pointless movie ever"

Come on, that is simple film making

[–] findthebill 19 years ago

Well I agree it has some obivous plot holes and many loose ends, I thought it was pretty good for a first attempt at writing/directing/staring. My only advise to Mr. Schroder would have been to get more people involved in the process. He needed some independent voices to tell him, don't do this, or if your going to do this, you need to consider that...etc.

Good film and excellent photography. As an Arizonian, I believe it captured the best parts of the Grand Canyon State! Well Done!

-- Phoenix, AZ

[–] sparkling-angel 18 years ago

I thought it was an OK movie. I thought I was a pure blood Navajo until I found out that one of my ancestors is Ute and another one is Mexican...oh well, at least I wasn't such a drama queen like Black Cloud, I thought he overreacted too much.
Some parts of the muvie are fairly accurate, there are quite a few Navajos who are always drunk, fortunately I know none of them or have any affiliation with them whatsoever.

[–] vicky_lc2001-1 15 years ago

Well, even if you're not a pure blood Navajo, perhaps there is still a chance you're a pure blood Indian or Native American. Your Mexican ancestry, was it native or European? Most Mexicans today are Mestizos, a combination of native & European ancestry, so even if you had European blood flowing in your veins, it may not even be very significant after all, or perhaps none at all to even matter.

I had a weird dream last night...
You had yourself a vision.

[–] mstoyle 18 years ago

Arizona? I saw it last night and it appeared to me to be New Mexico. Gallup? Check the NM plates on the Sheriff's vehicles. Then again it also had a scene in it when Black Cloud is riding a horse with a familiar mountain in the background. It's been in a jillion Westerns, Monument Valley.

[–] BRASSKNUCKLEBOOTBOY-1 18 years ago

Hmm....why would an indian hate white people....I mean, I'm sure they willingly gave away all their land and offered their lives just to make the white people feel better. God forbid that their ancestors hold any kind of grudge though!

[–] mesamood 18 years ago

Black Cloud is the most accurate depection of Indian people ever made. It shows the good and the struggles. Eddie Spears and Tim McGraw are great in it. Rick Schroder is going to have a great directing career.

[–] teenyhd 18 years ago

if you guys liked how accurate the portrayal of natives was in this movie, you should check out "smoke signals", "dance me outside" and "pow wow trails"...they are some of my favs!

[–] Sonseearray 18 years ago

I loved the movie and Im a big Eddie Spears fan. Yeah sure Eddie did use a lot of racist slurs and most of it probably was in ignorance but he lived on a rez so I dont blame. Living on a rez is hell, i get more *beep* on the rez from white people then I do where I live now which is off the rez. Plus I know some natives that just live in the past like some confederates down south who still think they shouldve won the civil war. My grandmas that way she just has a pure hatred for white people.

smoke signals is awesome i love that movies lolz. "John Waynes teeth Are they plastic are they steel" lmao

Of course you can trust the goverment... Just ask the Native Americans

[–] TrueCoconut 18 years ago

Ive lived on the rez most of my life and generally Whites act better than us Indians . Personally when I tell people that Im Native they immediantly assume Im poor and my father is a drunk and un employed. or non exsistant. In truth my father is a succesful upholster. Generally white people seem to view themselves better like we are all drunk and poor and live off the government. Which is so incorect. Also all the white people out there who claim to be native and say that there grandmothers were "cherokee princesses" is just plain bull. Being Indian it really pisses us off, its trying to be someone there not. I can really relate to the Black Cloud because at times I feel a great hatred towards white people. Black Cloud is a accurate view into what living on the rez is like, Along with Dance me Outside, and Smoke Signals

[–] Sonseearray 18 years ago

i hate that stereotype, all natives are drunks and mooching off the goverment. i havent seen a penny from them. and my mom is a perfectly normal person shes a single mom works a 9 to 5 job at wal-mart and she hates drinking. whenever someone tells me thier so many great greats grandmother was a full blooded cherokee princess, i say omg my great great grandmother was full blooded canadian princess lolz. thats absolutely ridiculous though there was no royalty amoung cherokee. it seems natives are the only race that has to prove they are native. ive always wanted to see dance me outside, i love smoke signals

Of course you can trust the goverment... Just ask the Native Americans

[–] tonymilfordjr 18 years ago

What is racism? A drink of change that many are blind to acknowledge? Question is? Do we all drink from this cup at some point in life (or) experience the result of anothers indulgence to not question? The best we can all do is just live for what we honestly believe in and this is the freedom of what life offers, independence..., The choice is yours. Remember, some people don't have that luxury. 2K6.

[–] drunken69god 18 years ago

You the Black Cloud is racist?! You completely missed the whole message of the movie. I'm not saying that Black Cloud racist views aren't flawed but did you see the whites he came in contact with in this movie? Black Cloud came across some pretty twisted and evil white people in this movie. The only white person in this movie that was worth a pig fart was the olympic talent scout. Racicm is wrong. I'm not even Native American and I could still feel the pain of what Black Cloud was experiencing. At the beginning of the movie Black Cloud beat that Rodeo guy up because of the evil and racist things he said about his girlfriend and Native American people in general. Lets be honest. That guy deserved an ass whooping. That was justice. Then there was that real estate salemen who wanted sexual favors from his girlfriend. That guy was snot and don't get me started on Tim Mcgraw's characters twisted way of thinking. That gang of cowboys tried to kill Black Cloud and his friend and Tim Mcgraw is all like eye for and eye and all that bulls h i t. That wasn't no friggin Eye for and eye. Black Cloud didn't try to kill that guy. When you're constatly asking the ass-whoopee if he's had enough thats not attempted murder. I hated Tim Mcraw's character in this movie. And then there was that one scene where he and Black Cloud are talking aboutJohn Wayne movies. What was that? Are we supposed to like Mcgraw now? Cuz I didn't. What I'm trying to say here is nobody's saying that all white people are like this but there are evil people like this in the world. And Native Americans have been put though some real horrible s h i t by them.

Honor is not in the weapon. Its in the man. -Jin Ke

[–] baccimar-1 17 years ago

Racism Is. I think this film had too much depth to it honostly. Schroder tried to clump into one movie all the problems that the Navajo Nation faces, as well as a lot of conventional problems that infest the larger American society. I think there was a lot of insight in creating this movie, but it was impossible to put so many sub-plots in a two hour film, without leaving feeling the stereotypes. I imagine the life of someone onthe reservation is not one that can be summed so briefly.

I just dont think its necessary to solicite cultural strerotypes in order to make Eddie Spears seem valant. He had enough problems to overcome without making white people look like violent, racist hicks, black people look like money hungry ignorants, and the Navojo Nation look like it can solve its problems by going on vision quests and taming wild stallions. It is importantant to think about what these images are re affirming about people in our minds.

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Carlito_Negro 17 years ago

I'd have to agree with you. It was way to stereo typical in it's portrayal of races and the lead was far to whiny...oh, wait, that was Star Wars.

In truth, I thought this movie was an excellent film considering the low budget, the short time spent filming and that it was Rick Schroder's first time out as writer and director as well as playing a minor role.

[–] movieluvobivious 17 years ago

Although i'm not a huge fan of this particular story line i disagree with your opinion.You clearly did not get the film.So it is you who comes across ignorant i mean you dont have to be a genious to figure out why any indian would have a grudge with white people eventhough it is wrong.Natives have white man to think for poverty,disease having no land and being stuck on a rez when all the world is restricted from them by laws. i mean this is in the mind of every indian some become like black cloud was angry other take what they have and turn there backs on what was.

1- Black Cloud as a child wasent aware of who he was or even the fact that he was an indian.he look towards heroes like john wayne etc. untill he realized that all these heroes he worshiped were killing indians( people that looked like him). This was a metaphore which clearly tells us that the force feed americanized culture made him hate the white man in general.He also mentions that he dislikes whites for the past of stealing there land and killing there people.

2- after it is established that black cloud is infact a agressive racist, we see that he hates himself because he finds out he is the product of some one white. I know it seems lke he overreacted but i have seen some do worse to them selves. these acts are common with agressive racists.

3-When black cloud speaks "it's in my blood". clearly he was not talking about the white part of him i mean there are people getting drunk throughout the movie who arent established as mixed. black cloud meant he was doing what was exspected of him from the indian and the white people, the white man saw him as just another drunk indian and his indian friends just kept wanting him to get drunk.Just stereotyping himself. He thought getting drunk would make him more indian, which is what he wanted because he thought it was bad to be mixed blooded.

4- Black cloud realized the error of his racism during his dreamwalk, he met white wolf and realized that not all white men are bad, so the smack up side his head was more like a gentle speech from his grandfather.

it's really a simple plot to follow guy is bad, hit's rock bottom,learns from his mistakes, rise up again.

also you mentioned all the racism from the indian side but what about the whites, "there all whores including your mama.", "All they do is get drunk", even the black guy used the N word to represent himself, and the constant refrences to red skin.

I think you felt offended because your white. and i dont know you but i'm guessing i'm right.heres some advice,"someone's always gonna have a problem with who or what you are but at the end of the day, No one really knows who or what you are but you, so the jokes on them." hopefully that advice will help you if you ever feel judged again.