MovieChat Forums > Zatôichi (2003) Discussion > Why is this movie rated higher than the ...

Why is this movie rated higher than the real Zatoichi movies?

posted 19 years ago by bringer348
27 replies | jump to latest

I can't bring myself to watch this movie, everything about it seems like an insult to the original movies. I'm not the biggest fan of modern Japanese cinema (Takashi Miike and flicks like this) but I've become obsessed with earlier Japanese films from the 50's-80's. I'm only 23 but something about modern japanese movies just rubs me the wrong way, so it's not an age related thing. So what about this movie is better than the originals? Is it just because more (younger and dumber) people have seen it?

Also, somebody mentioned that modern Japanese movies look like made for TV movies in another thread. I completely agree! I was just telling someone how these movies remind me of cheap Showtime or HBO movies. What happened to the artful cinematography of the older Japanese movies? Everything seems to be trying to be as flashy or MTV like as possible instead of having any real substance.

[–] howzat1 19 years ago

As a matter of interest could you rhyme off some of those bad modern films that you've seen?

[–] bringer348 19 years ago

As I implied in my previous post, movies like Ichi the Killer, Izo, and other "Beat" Takeshi movies. The movie's everyone praises and think of as being some of the greatest gifts to modern cinema. I guess things are so bad in Hollywood crappy movies like this get a lot of praise.

[–] howzat1 19 years ago

Well i really enjoyed both this movie and hana-bi, another of kitano's films. Haven't seen any of the other zatoichi films but this has just enough action and quirkiness to make it thoroughly enjoyable. I'd say give it a try and watch it with an open mind without the baggage of having to live up to anything else from the past.
I know they ain't Japanese but Oldboy and A Tale of Two Sisters are also pretty good although the latter can be somewhat confusing initially.

[–] nbtana 19 years ago

bringer348 there are a lot of good modern Japanese movies being made in what you might consider the artful cinematography. You might want to check out Twilight Samurai, or any of the movies by Hirokazu Kore-Eda (the Ozu-style inspired Maboroshi for example, or his more recent work Nobody Knows). Another, modern movie that might be worth your time is Chichi to Kuraseba, a post WWII drama set in Hiroshima, I haven't seen it yet, but heard many good things about it.

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[–] wellesradio 19 years ago

I totally agree with the first poster here.

I was rewatching Zatôichi monogatari earlier and I paused the movie like twenty-some odd times. I'm a painter and E-V-E-R-Y time I paused it - sometimes randomly, most times because something caught my eye, I thought, "THAT would make an awesome painting." In fact, I have made works based on the Zatoichi movies before. The cinematography is GREAT! It reminds me of the work Conrad L. Hall did in "The Road To Perdition" where the cimeatographer seems to have really taken his time to frame shots in a very graphic novel-like manner (that movie was based on one). You know kind of like of like what "Sin City" tried to do (succesfully I'll agree) but with THREE directors and a digital visual effects team of hundreds (which makes it kind of disappointing)?

Chishi Makiura and Kenji Misumi worked well all the way into 1980 with "Shogun Assasin", so I get what you mean when you say you enjoyed things in Japan all the way into the 80s.

Heck, you know what - I'm not even all that into anime (at least not ACTION/SCI FI stuff beyond Akira)!!! Ooooh, the sacrilege.

I guess you and I are a dying breed - kind of like the people who only enjoy classic movies here in America, and like watching AMC... remember them? They're dying out, too, in favor of fan boys who love the schlock. :( However, that isn't to say I despise all new cinema and I'll be sure to check out any suggestions. And if Twilight Samurai is on par with Kurosawa, I'll definitely get me a copy.

[–] pogo_sport 19 years ago

I think the reason why this movie is rated much higher than the real Zatoichi movies is for one, being as though Kitano-san is a popular, well known, actor/director, on these IMDB boards your average person interested in movies like Zatoichi, is more than likely going to know more about Takeshi Kitano than Shintaro Katsu. Now that's not to say that a lot of people on these boards don't know how great an actor/director Katsu was also, but your average fan might not have heard as much about him as say Kitano. I personally have said on these IMDB boards and in conversations that while I thought this Zatoichi movie was very good (Kitano's) I still prefer the classic Katsu-san Zatoichi movies for various reasons. Think about it, there are definitely people who saw that this was a movie starring Takeshi Kitano and decided to see it strictly because of him. Now on the other hand, how many people can say they watched "Fight, Zatoichi, Fight" where Ichi has to return a baby to it's father or saw "Zatoichi and the Chess Expert" the one where Ichi encounters a chess playing samurai strictly because of Shintaro Katsu? Not as many people. Those are some reasons I think concerning the higher rating. Then there's also the possibility that the people that voted just thought this was better than the old ones (I'm not one of those people) but "to each his own."

Also, I have to agree with some of the posters who touched on Twilight Samurai being a great movie. There was an almost reminiscent ness about this movie, like it was an old school samurai flick.

[–] wellesradio 19 years ago

And I'm ALL about the old school!

[–] Gigo_Satana 19 years ago

Some old Zatoichi films have good ratings considering how many people have registered their votes here. It's not Kitano's fault that his and Asano's popularity added to the over all marketing of the film and the fact that many people won't bother to go through the original series, which I have a complete collection of.

Obviously many things were altered and for a rehash it was done rather refreshingly, rightfully omitting the "old school" elements that are impossible to recreate.

and you can't have old school if you don't have new school to show the signs of evolution right?

[–] lartrak 19 years ago

" and like watching AMC"

Have you watched AMC recently? Oh man... Some of the movies I'm like "THIS is a CLASSIC?".

For example, Office Space. Good movie.. But it's 6 years old.

Graveyard Shift. Yes, AMC, showed Graveyard Shift. While I find the movie entertaining, it's garbage.

That said, I think the main reason the old Zatoichi flicks are lower rated is because of fewer votes. Less votes on the IMDB equates out to a lower score in some cases.

[–] wellesradio 19 years ago

I totally agree. When AMC (or was it TCM?) was commercial free it kicked ass. I don't even have cable any more and during the last six months that I did I didn't watch these stations until like two in the morning on a weeknight or 6 am on Saturday... cos that's when they would play old gangster films or Marx Brothers stuff or really good shorts and silents.

[–] Ryuusei 19 years ago

Bringer348,

As a big fan of the old Zatoichi films, I have to agree.

I've seen this about a week ago on cable. I really wanted to like it, but this has got to be an even worse remake than, say, LEGEND OF THE LONE RANGER (though not as baaaaad as the Hollywood GODZILLA). Even Shintarou Katsu's last Zatoichi film is much better than this.

This film is an artsy-fartsy revenge-of-two-pretty-teenagers with a special appearance by Zatoichi (who's only in the film for, like, 30 minutes!). I always loved Katsu's Zatoichi, because not only was he the central character of the films, but I really cared for what happened to him. And he always had a sense of humor! I felt absolutely nothing for Kitano's Zatoichi. And he wasn't even the central character, more like an allegory character for said two pretty teenagers!

And besides the construction workers pounding to the new-age beat, the climax of this movie is . . . Japanese Riverdancing! It deafens even anything Zatoichi went through therein!

All of Katsu's old films, even the edgier 70s films, had more class than this.

[–] Dragon_Eye_Morrison 19 years ago

From Kitano, watch Hana-Bi and Dolls, from Miike, The Bird People in China, those 3 movies have some of the most beautifull imagery and cinematography that you will hardly find in other films. And they aren´t about insane yakuza carnages, fast cuts, or anything like that.

As for Zatoichi, Kitano has a very distinctive way of approaching the subject, if you were expecting the same treatment that had the previous Zatoichi movies you had the wrong idea. Kitano´s version certainly doesn´t look like a cheap tv movie, also, you can´t deny that some of the old Zatoichi films have some cheesy moments.

Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Weep, and you weep alone.

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[–] k0y073 19 years ago

rating for both movies is 7.7, only this one has more votes. And that's pretty obvious as this one is much newer had quite a lot of screens around the world and in in colour. Most people wouldn't know that there was a film b4 this one, and this film had a much bigger audiance so there are more people to that will come here to vote for the movie as there were simply more people who have seen it :)

[–] Ryuusei 19 years ago

"Since Zatoichi had nothing to do with the dance sequence, nor do we see him partake in the dance, how is that a betrayl of the original character?"

I never said it was, it just completely detracted from the climax.

"It was a great film and better than Zatoichi 26 in my humble opinion."

I disagree. While that wasn't the best film, at least Zatoichi had more screen time. Poignant in that Shintarou Katsu had one more try at the Zatoichi role.

"Plus the cinematography is breathtaking and artful, so your wrong on that count as well."

Where did I say that the cinematography was bad? That was one of its strong points.

"Don't be so close minded to contempoary Japanese cinema."

I'm not, I'm just more into *vintage* Japanese cinema. I love Japanese versions of Toho/Daiei/Toei tokusatsu movies for crying out loud!

I'm sorry, but I did not like this new Zatoichi film, and nothing can change my opinion on it.

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[–] dreamingcarnage 19 years ago

If you can't bring yourself to watch it, then you don't know the movie enough to bracket it with the movies made for television which you scorn.

Cheap Showtime and HBO films? Showtime horror is pretty cheap, but they both have grown up a lot in the past few years. Sucker free city was a pretty interesting movie for example and that was from the second tier showtime.

Takashi Miike isn't the sum of all modern Japanese Cinema, he's just a cult favorite of "Japanese gorefests" and japanese "gore horror" or what have you. (basically weird for the sake of weird)

Don't go for horror films. I think people have a problem of expectations,if you go see a movie watch it for sheer entertainment value and go in thinking its gonna be some *beep* B movie. Then you'll be most likely happy with whatever you watched.

[–] bhagavadgita227 19 years ago

I would like to note that this film is a "real" Zatoichi film. Think of Zatoichi films as being like Bond films, they change over time and they have different actors. If you look at the storyline and compare it to other Zatoichi films you'll realize that they're all pretty much the same. Even the ending with the dancing and singing is in-line with other period Japanese films, which was what he was trying to do - make it period, yet also modern at the same time. I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you, this is a real Zatoichi, and a strong one at that.

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[–] coxen00 19 years ago

Are you joking? This is one of the most cinematically stunning films I have ever seen. I not as big a fan of Japanese cinema as you are, but I watched this film with unbiased eyes and I was blown away.

I think you suffer from nostalgia. I sympathize with you. Whenever I see some CGI computer monster on the big screen I immediately look for the exit door, because I like the older style special effects. This is something I need to get over too.

Don't shut yourself out to modern Japanese film. It's some the best the world has to offer.