MovieChat Forums > Der Untergang (2005) Discussion > Was communism racial or economic?

Was communism racial or economic?


If communism was just an economic ideology, about workers controlling the means of production, then why did Hitler have a racial reaction to it? And why did he form a party called the National SOCIALIST German WORKERS party if he hated the worker's movement.

If Josef Stalin was anti-Semitic and liquidating Jews, why were he and Hitler not best buddies? Why did Hitler and Stalin not team up together like Roosevelt and Stalin did? Two Jew-hating socialists, with similar goals.

Something just does not add up here.

Pre WWII communism is economic, while post WWII communism is racial.

Post WWII communism was about Africans, Asians, and Latin Americans rebelling against their white colonial masters. Mao Zedong was a racial communist who actually hated his Russian allies.

Discuss.

reply

I think you're looking at it from the wrong angle. National Socialism was extremely nationalistic in its scope, while Communism was mostly internationalist, as were the Western Allies. That was a key difference.

Socialism can either be nationalist or internationalist. Some of the early liberal social programs were implemented by leaders who were also staunch nationalists, such as Napoleon III and Bismarck. They believed in helping the poor and the workers in their own countries, but did not extend the same sympathy to any foreigners or outsiders.

It wasn't that they hated the workers' movement; most factions on both sides of the political spectrum recognized that there were serious issues to be addressed regarding workers rights, working conditions - and the tumultuous revolts and upheavals which had been taking place in Europe in the 19th century. Nationalist movements were cropping up and various European nations were scrambling for position and grabbing up whatever they could get in Africa and Asia. Socialism (in more moderate doses) was favored largely to engender greater goodwill, loyalty, and patriotism among the masses as a way of strengthening the nation relative to other nations.

Communism was not just an economic system, at least in terms of how it was practiced in the Soviet Union. For one thing, the original "Soviets" (councils) were supposed to be locally elected and relatively self-governing in their own regions. But as it turned out, if they didn't toe the line, they'd get arrested or purged or disappear without trace. They couldn't be overtly nationalistic or racist, as they were a multi-national state with numerous ethnic groups and languages across two continents. Stalin may have been an anti-semite (although he didn't seem very consistent about that), but officially, the Soviet Union was not.

Post WWII communism was about Africans, Asians, and Latin Americans rebelling against their white colonial masters. Mao Zedong was a racial communist who actually hated his Russian allies.


Perhaps, although I think the Japanese also supported some national liberation movements in Asia which were to weaken white colonial rule in Asia. But there were also communist-backed liberation movements, too. There were countries with rival liberation groups who rebelled against their white colonial masters but also fought each other. It got pretty messy in some spots, to say the least. It still is, to some extent.

reply

Socialism and communism are not the same thing. The differences are covered in other posts. I've often wondered about that myself. . . .so I looked up the differences. Some things are similar; some not.

reply