MovieChat Forums > Criminal (2004) Discussion > Criminal vs 9 Queens: the ultimate debat...

Criminal vs 9 Queens: the ultimate debate

posted 17 years ago by guska21
20 replies | jump to latest

first of all, 9 queens has the advantage of being the first (when comparing same movies, usually first viewing gets an advantage), so criminal has the pressure of outdo the original (although this is not a competition really, it's just a remake)...on the other hand, if it wasn't because 9 queens was SO good, they would never make a remake in the first place.

the thing is Criminal lacked the "magic touch" of acting and screenwriting of 9 queens, the essence, the depth of the plot, the jokes, etc. this is why I think 9 Queens is much better than Criminal, hands down. allow me to back this up:

the casting of criminal: i feel like this could have been a better movie if 2 better actors would have been selected...maybe nicolas cage and eduardo noriega (spanish actor)...just my opinion...what do you think?

john c reilly to diego luna: "you look like a nice guy" WHAT!!! he looks like an inmigrant, unkempt hairy bum! (especially in Beverly Hills!...if you are walking through RODEO DR you would probably evade a guy like this in the street...let alone give him your purse!)

the negotiation skills in criminal: john c. really out of the blue demands 90% of the deal and he gets it just like that, no convincing techniques, no nothing (opposed to ricardo darin in 9 queens). this happens a couple of times.

the dialogue of 9 queens: so powerful (of course, if you know the language you would have appreciated better...i live in puerto rico, i speak spanish, and i absolutely love the script of this movie...the argentinean words used in such a clever and funny (fun) way) in criminal, when diego luna is "convincing the old lady" in mexican, not quite the same feeling: both in spanish, not the same chemistry.

the script: 9 queens is much more elaborated, more in-depht, more jokes, etc. Criminal has some (as opposed to many in 9 queens) good lines in the script: "what's your name...rodrigo...what...ro-dri-go"..."he's gay...that's he's occupation?"..."fuc*ed is when you're handcuffed in the pavement".

the "rita pavone song" in 9 queens: how beautiful, rewarding and clever it was listening in the credits the song he was trying to remember the whole film. "ah, me acordé...credits...the song...genius!" perfect ending to a fantastic con movie, imo. in criminal they make the song reference just once, and that's it, has no importance at all.

for me, it feels like Criminal was done in a one-two-three-let's not even bother about the details to make it special and just emphasize on the twist ending- kind of pace. Criminal feels like a very "simple, edited, short" version of what 9 Queens was.

Because of all this, people should see the difference clearly of the two movies. If you're one of those who prefer Criminal, then prove it with facts. i understand that for many english speakers a reason may be the language factor: a SUBTITLE-version viewing will never feel like a DOLBY SURROUND english audio version (hence might like better Criminal for this matter).

hey, thanks for reading this "review/opinion" on the 2 movies.

replys are much appreciated.

btw, check out my top-lists on my flixster page:
http://guska21.flixster.com

"i don't want to kill anybody...(5 min. later in the story)
...shoot him in the face!" Honey Bunny

[–] aricdb 17 years ago

I completely agree. 9 reinas is a much better movie, the dialogues, acting...

And YES to Eduardo Noriega, he is always perfect in every single movie.

Saludos!

[–] pugoman-1 17 years ago

I agree. Nine Queens was absolutely brilliant, especially if you understand the River Plate version of Spanish, since many of the expressions are typical of that region. The acting in Nine Queens was impressive and spot on and the movie is deeper with details and the details mesh more than in Criminal. For example, the cell phone conversation they stage in the bathroom to interest the mark was much clearer in Nine Queens than in Criminal. In the latter, you're not sure why the rich buyer would come out of the stall and protect the con men, since they had not really specified what it is they had. Another small example: In Criminal, the buyer's last minute desire to sleep with the sister came out of the blue. In Nine Queens, there were earlier references to him being attracted to the girl, so it did was a bit more expected, thus making for a smoother plot transition. In that instance the buyer uses the term "polvo" which is a typical Argentinian reference to screwing. If you have an option, go rent Nine Queens. Even with subtitles it's way superior to Criminal.

[–] guska21 17 years ago

"uses the term "polvo" which is a typical Argentinian reference to screwing"

jaja, yeah i follow. we use that term in puerto rico too.

[–] cengelm 16 years ago

Usually remakes are more expensively done. In this case the remake looks cheaper than the original.

The timing and pacing is better in the original.

And why actors of hispanic origin? Hispanics will prefer NUEVE REINAS anyways.

[–] Urielgolab 16 years ago

you wrote a perfect description about the movie diferences but i would like to give my argentinian opinion about this movie.
First of all i've voted Criminal with 1 star, and 9 queens with 9 stars.
Maybe the criteria i've used its because i fully understad all the language and dialogs used on the local movie, and criminal adapted that things to non latinamerican viewers.
Just like you said, you have to be a local spectator to understad every con, joke or dialog in the movie. If you dont understand that latin culture.

[–] martasavila 16 years ago

Good point Guska!

Nueve Reinas is AbsolutelY superior to Criminals.

In Criminals you can clearly see the fact that the actors are repeating or adapting the original 9 Queens, so they don't look authentic at all.
Plus this story is somehow related to the Argentina of some years ago... easy money ... survival ... resourcefulness... petty crooks.
This US adaptation wasn't bright at all.

I think Diego Luna was not right for this film. He looks like just another immigrant, he could even look suspicious to many Americans. He would never be perceived like a nice smart young man as the classy guy in 9Queens

[–] phatboytom 16 years ago

Aside from your mistaken idea that Nicolas Cage is a better actor than John C. Reilly, I completely agree. I just watched Criminal for the second time, and the point about a young, scruffy Hispanic kid being more trustworthy to a rich, middle age white lady in Beverly Hills does stick out as a huge flaw in the plot. Especially since later in the film they specifically deal with the issue. In the bank, Richard says to Rodrigo "Because I look like a business man and you look like a Cholo". You can't have it both ways.

Now, that's an esophagus!

[–] bankconsultant 16 years ago

They needed a more slick guy to play the lead instead of Reilly. Reilly has been always playing the faithful, good natured but not so smart sidekick in many movies thus far.

Get Jack Nicholson, he would have been more convincing and be like a father figure! Or someone who has charming good looks like Brad Pitt or charismatic and good with words like Edward Norton. That would have been better.

Plus I hate remakes. Hollywood has been running out of ideas for movies or just getting lazy.

Nueve Reinas wins, plus I got to stay at the Buenos Aires Hilton used in filming and it is very sweet.

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] guska21 16 years ago

i agree on the fact that Reilly is better actor, but i'm just saying that for this role i would have prefer Cage...goes more with his style i think.

"i don't want to kill anybody...(5 min. later in the story)
...shoot him in the face!" Honey Bunny

[–] bthoven66 16 years ago

Hey! Where's the debate here? Everybody agrees in the fact that 9 Reinas is long way better. And so do I, but I'm not totally objective in this matter, for obvious reasons (read below).
The only thing that seems a matter of discussion is: who should have been the appropriate actors for this remake? My humble opinion is that Clooney (executive productor) should have starred the film himself, he could have made a brilliant Brian. Jake Gyllenhall (haha) could be a perfect Rodrigo, but of course they should put this character a different name. And for Valerie, well, there's a lot of good actresses in the USA that should fit in that role. I would suggest someone in the style of Renee Russo, but of course much younger. Probably Elizabeth Shue could do it fine.
But then, how much more money would this movie have cost?

Please forgive my grammar, I'm writing from Argentina

[–] guska21 15 years ago

yeah, you have a point...it's pretty one sided, not much of a debate here!
good suggestions on the appropiate actors, looks good on paper.

the movie would have definitively cost more but then again it may have had a broader screening and probably a much better gross.

[–] guska21 15 years ago

bump

"You brought yo' bitch to the Waffle Hut?" The Ladykillers

[–] SeisCinemaSeis 14 years ago

I have never considered 'Nueve reinas' as a great film. It's clever, includes a solid plot twist and works as a good conmen flick, but that's pretty much about it.
7.5/10

Criminal in the other hand follows the same formula step by step, so basically what you could say about 'Nueve reinas', could be said about 'Criminal' as well.
Anyway and unlike 90% of the remakes, 'Criminal' is not a bad movie. Mainly because of John C. Reilly, Diego Luna and Maggie Gyllenhaal, who are, all of them, great actor.
7/10

In short: Both movies are more or less at the same level. They are good but not great. 'Nueve Reinas' is a tad better if only because it was the original movie and Buenos Aires as the place where the events happens is also a character in Fabián Bielinsky's film, something that 'Criminal' lacks because L.A. has not "personality". It is a city made out of many smaller cities.

[–] aimot 13 years ago

Clearly Neuve Reinas was lot better, in every department, it isnt even contest. I wouldnt say Criminal was total waste of time, but i wouldnt watch it second time, thats for sure. I also felt kinda disappointed that Criminal followed 9 Reinas story quite closely, but left out most brilliant gem : bathroom scene, where older conman asks younger : would you sleep with a man ?
"Putos no faltan"

http://youtu.be/r6BlJoTmMXE