MovieChat Forums > Ne le dis à personne (2006) Discussion > Can someone please explain why the Fren...

Can someone please explain why the French can act and we cannot?


Every single actor in this movie was transparent (i.e, genuine) and believable. Whenever I watch an American film, the actors (both big and small) seem at a distance from the characters they are portraying - they never totally enter the role - even when it is obvious that they are trying hard. This confuses me because it is so consistently the case...

Do the French (and British and other countries) train their actors differently? Expect different things from them? Is it something in the water? Is there something (pervasive) in our movie industry? This is so subtle, yet so noticeable. What is up?

I'd love to hear thoughts from other filmophiles out there!

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I guess it's because the Americans have their heads up their asses, and we don't. :)

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Well i found your comment pretty funny... because i'm french and i thought the only real defect in this movie was the use of already too much used well known french actors who doesn't play that well.

I think there were some moments where Dussolier and Cluzet whre beeing very much Dussolier and Cluzet and not characters of the movie at all, especially the angry explosions of Dussolier when the two reunite at the beginning of the movie which were in my opinion some the baddest acting scenes i'v seen this year :D
Cluzet had very good moments in the second part of the movie, but overal very bad ones too.

Well in the end i think it's just a matter of habits, maybe i found the acting too common and unroginal because i'm used to the french movie scene, maybe you found it brilliant because you're not used to it and it seems at least different and then original.

But really as an avid movie watcher, watching maybe ten foreign movies for every french movie, i wouldn't agree with you, i think that french acting is not that good, especially with our most known actors today... but i agree that generally speaking, the unknown or not that much jnown french actors do pretty well, then again imho it's the case in independant US movies too !

And don't even start me on directing, cutting and composition, but that's another story !



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Let me rephrase this to make it simple:

Why is it that no matter how hard they try, mainstream American movie actors cannot act? They always seem painfully conscious of the fact that they are acting and never just dissappear into the character? I see this with both well-known and lesser known American actors. Feedback?

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I see your point regarding American acting compared to European acting.

This is my view on it... Hollywood dominates the film industry, the blockbuster films you see are made purely for fianancial gain. Stars sell films, this cannot be argued against. They use 'famous faces' to get the film watched, they don't necessarily care if the acting is good, as long as it isn't appauling (which sometimes that doesn't bother them either!). In comparision to European cinema, in particular French and English, they are less fueled by money and have more of a passion for film making, it could be argued. This means they use less well known actors and rely more on the ACTING itself other than the ACTORS star credibility...

Make sense?

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Pacino, DeNiro, Dustin Hoffman, Gene Hackman, Tom Hanks, Jack Nicholson, Kevin Spacey, Sean Penn, Robert Duvall. Obviously you're smoking something. I admit that most foreign movies out there are far superior to American ones, especially of the blockbuster variety, but don't dog American acting. There are so many other things to hate us for besides our acting! I don't watch blockbusters, personally, but there are more than a few independent American films being made that are superb. I don't know why every board on a foriegn movie goes into this discussion, but there you go.

I don't want to be derogatory, so I'll stop there...

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I think the real case in here is : "the grass [of other people] is always greener".

French said their actors weren't that good, on the contrary, americans said their actors were amateurish / "distant"

Well, me as neither american or french always loved and enjoyed watching films and acting from both countries. Anything but ours are excellent. O wait..see?

Star-Gate sequence(Space Odyssey)
Baptism scene(Godfather)
"I'm as mad as hell"(Network)

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I'm the original poster.

I do think, Lady of England, that your point makes sense (and others said the same thing). The dominance of the Hollywood film industry, the focus on money, the use of the same actors over and over, the emphasis on surface characteristics over believability, etc etc, all makes for films that tend to be big and glitzy. Even the more quirky films are chock-filled with the 'beatiful people' (even beautiful people made up to be ugly...). Foreign films (yes, I get the point that the bad foreign films don't make it here) are willing to use normal looking people (I love this), focus on acting not glitz and special effects, are more thoughtful than alot of our moneymaking/crowd pleasing/commercial ventures.............. etc, etc, etc.

And to our smug friend above, I didn't post this after seeing it on other threads. I posted it because I thought it. If other people are saying the same thing, there might just be something there.

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Why do you keep speaking in nothing but generalities? Give some specific examples of American actors who you think are bad. topher5001 listed a bunch who he/she thought are very good so why don't you list who you're speaking of instead of using the vague terms that you've been using.

I watched this movie because it is based on a book from an American author that I read quite a bit (Harlan Coban). I thought it was a good movie, but I was not blown away with the acting, especially from the male lead.

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I spoke in generalities because the feeling is so pervasive. I do think there is something about our movie industry that makes it difficult if not impossible for actors to dissappear into a role. Some of this is about the way the industry chooses specific types of actors to promote, and some of this is the way that movies are made. It is less about specific actors (which is why I'm not focusing on names). Even when a well-known American actor (Kristin Scott Thomas) appears in a non-American film such as this one, she comes across as more convincing - less glammed up, a bit more real. I don't have my finger on teh reason, which is why I posed the question, but the feedback of others has helped me to see some of the possible reasons which I stated in the post above. In fairness, some also pointed out that because the film is 'foreign' it makes it more believable, because there is less that the viewer is familiar with, and therefore jaded to.

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Kristen Scott Thomas is British. With that out of the way, perhaps you need to broaden the spectrum of American films you watch. I can recommend plenty of great films made here that only get limited release since they won't be moneymakers. Plenty of actors make big-budget Hollywood films so they have the liberty to make smaller indy films that would be more to your liking.

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There's a specific style of acting that I don't often see in American films, even indie. It's a way of dissappearing into a character. Not drawing attention to oneself. Feels more like watching a documentary with real people, not actors. Low-key, not intense. Average-looking people. Less focused on a single character. Just don't see it too much here. See it alot in brit-films. Maybe it's a style of filmmaking too. Dunno.

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You can't act well while using botox who gives your face a stone rigidity. Many american actors above 30 use it, and that's a pain...

natalia

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> Foreign films ... are willing to use normal looking people

That is not true in general.
I noted whilst watching this movie, that every woman in France seems to be attractive.
On my visits to France I haven't found this great proliferation of beauties.
You will find that is often the case with French film. They tend towards fitties, in the bigger budget movies [this one] just like the Americans.
Women in film in general seem to be much more attractive than the real world average.
Not truly a criticism, but a point nevertheless.

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Just came across my comment and your reply (10 years later - ha).
Yes, your reply totally makes sense. Thank you.

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Why is it that no matter how hard they try, mainstream American movie actors cannot act? They always seem painfully conscious of the fact that they are acting and never just dissappear into the character? I see this with both well-known and lesser known American actors. Feedback?


Ah, that's a more reasonable question. And I generally agree. I still think some great movies come out of Hollywood now and again, but generally speaking indie movies (not mainstream) definitely have much more raw appeal to me.

Hollywood movies are, I guess, a way to indulge in predictability, expensive special effects, and celebrity (you know how we love to base entire movies around a really popular actor, dress them up in a fancy outfit to show them off, give them a theme song...). Indie movies are usually more about movies as an art form, and I think this attracts actors who perform art, as opposed to actors who memorize lines.

I also think that European movies, in general, usually have a more tangible feel to them. I'm talking specifically about lighting, recording devices used... I don't know, I'm not in the business, I just know that most of the time I can immediately identify a foreign film by the way it's shot. It's just a cultural difference and while I suspect the previous poster might be partially right when they suggest that we like it because it's different, I think on top of that some people just prefer the style of movie produced by other countries.

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Yeah, and I could be wrong, but in many cases, our moviemaking style has infected the indie world as well - not in the special effects or big budget, but in the focus on single actors, young and glamorous (often trying to break in to the mainstream Hollywood market), stylized, etc. This is definitely not always the case, but the 'indie sensibility' is not totally free of mainstream Hollywood influence (not in a good way).

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Funny you should say that. I've always enjoyed an indie here and there but only recently have gotten on a big indie kick (thank you, Netflix). Anyhow, it was just yesterday I said to my wife, "I used to think being indie meant it was good. I'm only now realizing that there are some terrible indies, too."

I agree quite passionately with what you're saying. I think Hollywood has become a machine, and the people of this country have been trained to want what is popular. Hollywood frequently cranks out movies that strike me as contrived, flat, and formulaic. I think indie is fast becoming trendy (I guess art will always be plagued by trends) and sometimes you can totally tell that the director (actor, etc...) was just trying to mimic Hollywood.

Slightly related: you should read some of the quotes on Joseph Gordin-Levitt's page. He has an interesting perspective on celebrity and what an overblown notion it is in this country.

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(I 'passed' on this film, by the way, after seeing the content advisory - however, your thread was irresistible):
Why can Hugh Laurie, Brian Cox or Helen Mirren, do an American accent, but American actors sound laughable when they try to do any European accent? this could probably inspire a whole book, but I will try to offer a few reasons. (I am more familiar with British actors than French - but it does seem that the French also 'cast' their characters with normal-looking people, rather than glamorous guys or gals with over-emphasized physiques!)

1. it seems that many Brit actors get their start in stage or theater - often, they emerge from the Arts Colleges, with excellent credentials. England is a tiny country with an enormous history in live theater (Shakespeare, G Bernard Shaw, etc.) - the ensemble acting in such presentations is NOT conducive to producing a 'star' culture, nor will it shield an actor with no real craft from looking like an idiot. there is also a sense of centuries of literary history in Europe i.e. Jane Austen penned most of her novels before the War of 1812, and the novels have been read and re-read by generations of British actors. Even if American actors read the same literature, it is doubtful that they will find a forum to hone the craft of portraying the characters and conflict.

2. British actors seem to understand how to transform themselves via makeup, costume, body language accent/dialogue, hair style, etc. into a role, even it is a secondary role. example: Brian Cox - in the Bourne films, he is a loud, corrupt American CIA officer; in Red Eye, he is an unhappy, retiring father of the story's hero, a Manageress of a resort hotel; in Red, he is a loquacious Russian spymaster. He looks and sounds different in each film, leaving you to wonder: is that guy Brian Cox? it's also hard to tell the age of his characters - but it seems that he has been playing roles of guys 40 to 60 forever, and could go on doing so for decades.
- Anyway, American movie stars look the same in every role they play - as long as they beat up the bad guy and seduce the love interest, they can keep working.

3. Actresses in Hollywood are 'done' at age 40. Producers are always looking for a 20-something glam-girl to co-star with Kevin Costner, or Matthew McConaughey. we hear complaints that there are no good roles for women in their 40's in Hollywood - wrong: there are only a few decent roles for a-n-y woman NOT named Meryl Streep.
In Europe, women (and men) keep acting til they die.

4. in Hollywood, the role of 'supporting actors' is dying, as is the idea of 'ensemble' acting. films are based on the star appeal of the lead actor, recycled clichés, and advertising. that might explain why Hollywood acting looks so shallow and wooden to you - and me. there are talented American actors, both supporting and lead, but the stories and cinematography are dismally lacking in craft. I loved Al Pacino's work in the Shakespearean re-creation Looking for Richard - 1996 - but how many decent roles has he had since?
- in European cinema, actors readily accept secondary roles, and produce a meaningful contribution with whatever that part offers, enriching the production. and-as I said at the beginning-the casting includes actors who look like real people: paunchy, balding, tall, short, disheveled, etc. quite a contrast from the Miami CSI mentality that infects Hollywood cinema, huh?


:-) canuckteach (--:

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Omigawd, can I marry you??

Or, barring that (if you already have a lifelong committment to your cat or some other sentient human being) - would you kindly step up to the podium and accept this award for best post on this thread - and on many others as well??

Don't trip on your brogues as you run up the academy stairs to accept your award and make your speech! (Cue swelling orchestra...)

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Although I disagree with your conclusion, I can think of a few things that might account for your reaction. The first is just the sheer quantity of movies that are made in the U.S. compared to other countries, and as a result, the number of actors employed in making them. So we cover the whole range, with some of the best, the worst, and everything in between. And they are all available to us, whereas generally only the better foreign films make it into our market. Then, as someone already pointed out, Hollywood relies on "stars" to sell movies, and as celebrity worship has gotten completely out of control in this country, it no longer takes much acting talent to become a star. And related to this last point is a sort of burnout effect, because we've seen too much of certain stars, and know way too much about their personal lives, we find them harder and harder to believe in the roles they play. I often find that I enjoy foreign films for the simple reason that I don't always know the actors and so it's easier to believe their performance, and not be so distracted by the actor's fame and off-screen persona.

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I think you're asking why these particular French actors can act and I guess you're comparing them to some bad American actors. Saying all French actors can act is as silly as saying no American actors can act.

There are greats in all corners. No need to take it to extremes and litter the world with more stereotypes. :) I'm glad you enjoyed this movie, though. I did as well.

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Read my comment more carefully - and the follow-up comments that I and others posted. It is about the moviemaking style, level of realism, glamorization of the actors, etc. This was not a simplistic comment about 'all actors'. It's about the difference in moviemaking styles and choice/direction of actors in Hollywood versus in other countries. There are differences, and this thread is a discussion of what they are and why.

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This was not a simplistic comment about 'all actors'.


Well, it might not have been intended as one, but your initial post and subject was that simple, which is why I responded the way I did (before reading your follow ups). There's a broad difference (especially in terms of how people react to you) between saying "[French actors] can act, [American actors] cannot", and saying "I prefer French films. It is about the moviemaking style, level of realism, glamorization of the actors, etc."

Anyhow, I'm not trying to get on your case, just explaining my first reply to you. I made another more relevant and substantive post earlier up on the thread, if you're interested.

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I agree and also wonder why?
Especially young American actresses all seem to be the same (that's why it's so hard to remember their names or to keep them apart). They look different, yes, but they all react in the exact same way, they talk the same, don't seem to have any soul, no personality.

There are a few exceptions from the rule though like Renee Zellweger ("Bridget Jones Diary"), Robin Tunney ("Prison Break"), but most of the younger ones are sooo alike and VERY boring to watch. No surprises ever...I can always predict how they will react.

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Funny - I would even say that they don't look all that different. The same plastic surgeons, makeup artists, stylists, lighting experts, etc - and they all seem pretty much the same. It's like that Twilight Zone episode from the 50's, where the people could pick a model (number 8, number 12) that they wanted to look like and they would be transformed to look like that model ('oh, yes, number 12 is very popular this year!'). Everyone was attractive, no one was really different. A few models to choose from (like hollywood 'types'), but that is all.

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I agree completely with you :)!!!

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Not sure I agree with what OP implies, but Canuckteach provides the 'answer' - I have heard British actors (e.g Eddie Marson, Gary Lewis) who go to America to play character roles talk about the theatrical training in the UK making them attractive to American filmmakers. In defence of American actors, the financing depends much more on casting stars, and so they are expected to carry a role and be Johnny Depp/Bradd Pitt/George Clooney/Julia Roberts at the same time. They have to walk a line that James McAvoy, Jim Broadbent or Kate Winslet do not.

Finally - accents. I am astounded at how well American actors carry UK accents these days. Renee Zellwegger in Bridget Jones, Gwyneth Paltrow in Sliding Doors, Johnny Depp in Pirates (though less so in Neverland), Christian Bale in Reign of Fire... By way of contrast, Ewan MacGregor in Island has an atrocious American accent, and I disagree on Brian Cox - his American sounds wobbly to me (I'm Scottish, so I get to pick on the Scottish actors). If anything, I'd say the Americans are doing Brit accents better than the other way round at the moment.

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christian bale is british, so i should hope his accent sounds good!

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