MovieChat Forums > The Woodsman (2005) Discussion > Our reaction to paedophilia shouldn't be...

Our reaction to paedophilia shouldn't be a violent one.


The Woodsman and the recent Channel 4 documentary The Paedophile Next Door blow a breath of fresh air on a highly contentious matter that’s turgid with relentless ignorance and violent mob justice.

The demonstrable fact is that paedophilia, like heterosexuality and homosexuality, is a sexual preference. We may consider it reprehensible, but the reaction to paedophilia shouldn’t be a violent one. We must recognise it, understand it and ultimately control it instead of reacting with crude demonization.

Please read my article at: http://hawkensian.com/2014/12/05/paedophilia-and-the-woodsman-2004

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"Pseudoscience like this insults my intelligence as a psychiatrist and my humanity as a gay man." Dr. Huang (ep Hardwired--Law and Order SVU)

"The whole history of the world is the story of the struggle between the selfish and the unselfish"

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[deleted]

If you guys think that at some point in the future, normal people (i.e. people who do not want to have sex with children) are going to wake up and go "Ya know, maybe they're right. Maybe it's just a new sexual orientation and we should be more understanding and Hey! Here's my child for you to rape. Sorry I was so mean.", you are living in la-la land. If I caught anyone harming a child in that way, I would go postal on their ass, as would any of us "normal" people. What you need to be is afraid. Be very afraid.

"The whole history of the world is the story of the struggle between the selfish and the unselfish"

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[deleted]

Really, all I would need is a heavy blunt object--a lamp, a vase, a baseball bat and I'm quite sure if I caught someone red handed, any fear I would have would instantly be replaced with rage and adrenaline.

"The whole history of the world is the story of the struggle between the selfish and the unselfish"

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[deleted]

A child cannot agree to sex with an adult without it being rape.

I would suggest it was you who sounds ridiculous, most people would strike/attack a man if they caught them abusing their child, even the most gentle of people.
They wouldn't end up behind bars as if you are attacking an offender the law is very light on you, in fact most people would applaud it.
Even criminals who commit some horrible crimes cannot stomach child molesters, they get a hell of a time in prison. It tells you something when the scum of society still looks down on you and there is just cause.

Rationalising something so very disturbing speaks volumes.

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You can't have "consensual" sex with a little girl. So yes, you would be raping them if you were allowed to live in your dream world where you would be allowed to hang out with little girls all day, and "hope" one of them would be misguided into allowing you, or even being the one to initiate anything sexual at all.

You are sick - and yes I agree we need to recognize it as an illness, and treat it. Reacting with violence towards people who have already paid for their crimes, or who have not done anything is not going to solve, or make anything better. It will only dissuade people from coming forward to admit they are sick, and seek treatment, and be monitored.


But allowing you to manifest your desires by making it "tolerable" for a 40 year old dude to hang out with 12 year old girls is unacceptable, and will lead to nothing good.

That would be condoning your feelings and preference as acceptable - and it is anything but acceptable.

It's an insult to regular gay people to attempt tp justify the sexual preference for animals, or little children as acceptable.

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[deleted]

Let me just say that I respect you a lot for openly discussing, and explaining your feelings (although with a shroud of anonymity, it's still noble, IMO).

Thank you for clarifying the difference between mental illness, and abnormality; either way, IMO, it should never be acceptable for a grown man to hang out with girls. I don't believe there should be a specific age of when a girl should be able to decide for herself who she can and can't hang out with, and have consensual sex with. Some girls as young as fourteen I believe should be able to have sex with whoever they want (in Germany, one of the best countries in the world, IMO, this is the consensual age, I believe). However, other girls may need to be eighteen. Trying to place an arbitrary number is useless, IMO.

Either way, though, twelve is definitely way too young for a girl to have consensual sex. Again, though, I know you're trying to clarify you have no sexual feelings towards her.

Although let's say she decided in an immature moment, she wanted to "start" something sexual with you? Or she gave you the greenlight to initiate something?

Would you calmly, rationally, and maturely explain to her how she's too young? Or would you allow it to proceed?

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[deleted]

Yeah people like that are more dangerous than anyone.

They justify in their simple minds that they can cause harm to someone all because they believe it's justifiable.

After listening to you, I believe you're a gentle guy, who genuinely does, for whatever reason, enjoy the appearance, and everything else, about younger girls.

I mean, the innocence and purity of childhood IS something that should be cherished. I think everyone often goes back to a time in their childhood when they were so free of responsibility, and were ignorant to how harsh and cruel the world really is.

The human form in general is beautiful to behold, both male and female, IMO. So naturally, the innocence, and jovial nature of young girls, coupled with the fact that their bodies often do develop and are ready, according to nature, to have sex.

I still say that 9 out of 10 men would have sex with an underage girl around 14-16, if they knew 100% they could get away with it, with nobody ever finding out.



I don't know, though, despite finding you a perfectly sane, rational individual, who is probably a really nice guy with a lot to offer as a friend in real life, I would still not let my daughter (if I had one) who was under say, 16, hang out with you...


Anyway, it seems that neither your intent is there, nor have you actually caused any harm to a child, so I believe admiring the beauty of younger girls like you do via pictures, is fine.

I don't think you have the same mentality, and urges as offending (or those with the mindset, and desire/urge to offend) pedophiles do.

After talking to you, I'm actually much more informed on the issue, and that all pedophiles (or people like you who society would be ready to deem "potential pedophiles") cannot be simply "classified" in the same box...

Oh, and I was born and lived the first eight years of my life or so in South Africa (Jo'burg), but moved to USA when I was around eight. Moved overseas a few more times to different countries for my dad's job, but he retired permanently when I was 14, and been in the States ever since (25 now).

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I answered this question a few minutes ago in another message, but again, yes I would stop her and explain it can't be. Not only just because the law would most likely bite me in the ass afterwards. But more importantly, I wouldn't want to risk hurting her in any way.


Posted them on the other message, but they're worth a repost:

http://oi59.tinypic.com/34j7g3s.jpg

http://oi62.tinypic.com/15p0tc4.jpg

I said this before I think. But I get photos of a clothed model through an online friend who buys those photos. They are non nude, non suggestive photos and thus legal, just to be clear.


Except in cases where they clearly straddle the line of legality to the point where Google actually removes them due to child porn complaints:

http://oi60.tinypic.com/mkc50i.jpg

Remember that little incident?

How come? I don't know really. Is it because when I actually care about someone, when I get invested, thats when I don't wanna feel sexually attracted and I block out those thoughts? Out of respect. That sounds so odd, because it insinuates I don't respect the girls I do feel sexually attracted to. Or rather, those I allow myself to be attracted to sexually and also let my fantasy run free.


It does imply that, yes, and you never actually followed up on this. Do you respect the children you're sexually attracted to? If so, why is it acceptable to masturbate to them, but not to Angelica, who I assume is the child model you're referring to in this screenshot:

http://oi57.tinypic.com/2wnbnlz.jpg

Or the "girl in real life", whoever that is. It's not okay to masturbate to them, but it is okay to masturbate to random child models. Whom you also respect, but not really. ?? Oh I'm sorry, I forgot, you "love" these girls whom you've never spoken to or encountered personally. Kind of like how teenage girls say they "love" Robert Pattinson. It's not like it's almost entirely based on appearance or anything...

Fact still is, and I wish I could prove it, that I never masturbate to or have any sexual thoughts about this one girl I saw in real life or the girl on the photos I been collecting for years.


You don't have any sexual thoughts? I don't buy that for a second. At a stretch, I'd buy that you attempt to force yourself not to masturbate to their photos, but expecting people to believe that you haven't had a single sexual thought about these girls at all is too much. Especially me, when I saw you maintain for over a year that you'd never masturbated to Dakota Fanning's photos, before you finally admitted that you had in fact done so, as a "test".  Hell, if you remember correctly, initially you refused to even admit there was any sexual element to your attraction whatsoever. Now I can understand people who don't know you falling for your persecution complex, but for those familiar with your history of pathological lying, one must question your intentions and motivations at all times.

Oh, and as for that Dutch documentary you referred to which alleged that most paedophiles don't molest children, not only do they not specify whether or not they're referring to worldwide statistics, but they cite absolutely no source for those statistics and in fact I'm not even sure how they'd be able to gauge this, considering we have no idea how many paedophiles are actually out there - a point you yourself just made. But apparently we know enough to state that most don't molest children or aren't dangerous? No, all we have is the child molestation rate, which is high, and the fact that most child molesters are paedophiles. Beyond that, it's impossible to judge the likelihood of paedophiles molesting children, or even the cause behind it.






Valar morghulis

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[deleted]

Screenshots of posts made 3-4 years ago. You think I'm still the exact same person I was 4 years ago? The exact same thoughts and views?


Undecided on that, difficult to discern truth from fiction when it comes to a person who has a history of denial, but I'm willing to be open minded.

Of course I remember that, but you and everyone else failed to prove the reason why the links were removed by Google. Even if it was removed by google for being "child porn", which it was not, then that proves absolutely nothing.


Pretty sure it was proven, with these screenshots:

http://oi59.tinypic.com/osyhdf.jpg

http://oi62.tinypic.com/xm08xd.jpg

Candydoll is still in business, by the way. If it was really illegal what they produce, they'd be stopped by now. It was the decision made by someone working for Google, not a judge in court of law.


I never said it was illegal (though I wouldn't be surprised if it was eventually banned), my point was that these pictures are hardly innocent looking photos that no one would consider child porn, they straddle the line of what people consider appropriate and you're not likely to find many individuals who think it's acceptable to dress an 8 year-old child in a dominatrix outfit with a whip. I'm just clarifying, since your description made it sound like you were only looking at totally normal, every day child model photos with girls dressed in regular outfits that aren't in the least bit suggestive, and we both know that isn't the case.

PS: Since this material used to be spread on a massive scale over "chan" and other message boards as well as Newsgroups, the producers felt a loss of income and cracked down hard on all the free sharing. So far that many chan boards had to use a policy where posting any pic from a specific studio results into a permanent ban.


Is there anything that wasn't spread on chan boards?

First of all, I respect all children. But there are models I see and think they look attractive, but I don't develop a more intense feeling for them. Not like I think about them all the time and wanna get to know them better. They are just attractive girls. To the images of those girls I can masturbate.
On those moments I only think about the way they look and that is enough for me. I told this before, I can do it by just looking at the body of a girl and thats it. I don't have to fantasize sexual acts to make it work for me. When I told you this the first time, you refused to believe me being able to experience masturbation this way at my age. What does that imply? That you expect me to experience it in a different way, a way the adults experience it? Well then I wonder if it has nothing to do with the way I developed. Or lack thereof. After all, I never had a girlfriend and never went through the steps most people did.


You keep saying "girlfriend" as though having a monogamous, pair bonding relationship is somehow essential to human sexual development, as far as I'm aware it isn't. Do you think a hundred thousand years ago, early humans were concerned with taking girls out for dinner? No, they just had sexual urges and shagged anything that moved. You've already had sex, even though you paid for it, and you developed sexually being attracted to adult women, and according to you only became a paedophile after puberty. From what you've told me, your sexual development seems relatively normal for a shy young male.

Don't mention the others who didn't have a partner before the age of say 25 and didn't turn out to be attracted to preteens. It's not because they aren't like me that I can't have turned out the way I am. Like not everyone living in a poor home situation turning out to be a poor beggar himself.


I don't think it's anything to do with not having a partner (though that probably didn't help the situation), since there are late bloomers who don't become pedos and there are pedos who've had regular access to adult women. Yes, everyone is different but I just can't see a parallel between not having sex with women, and suddenly finding prepubescent kids sexually attractive, there's just no discernible connection there. I might see more of a connection if you were perhaps an ephebophile, since it could be said that due to not getting any attention whatsoever during puberty in a crucial stage of sexual development you became obsessed with that age group, but you're primarily attracted to children that haven't even reached puberty.

It's probably more to do with your sheltered upbringing and obsession with youth. Having been overprotected for the majority of your childhood, and despising the jarring transition into adulthood as a result, you preferred youth a lot more than the average person and thus became invariably attracted to anything that implied it. Which explains all the childlike possessions and so forth, it's part of your inability to let go of youth. Your paedophilia could very well be the eventuality of this mindset, which was intensified after your self loathing caused you to pursue it further and become addicted. I will say however, it's entirely possible that, if you'd had regular access to adult women your self esteem might've improved so you would've had no need to pursue it further.

You're a paedophile, in my view, because of a combination of self esteem issues and a sort of extreme form of nostalgia. You may not know this, but nostalgia (once considered to be a medical condition) is believed by neuroscientists to counteract depression, that's allegedly its purpose, so if you were struggling with depression as a result of your transition and nostalgia for a specific emotional state during your childhood became your only positive outlet, it probably led to this. Not getting laid plays into it only because it likely added to your depression, I don't see any direct line.

But there are also girls I see and of course am attracted by their beauty.
But they become so special to me, I don't want to think about them as a nice picture to look at when I touch myself. Why I keep them in two categories I don't know. I talked about this with a friend online who's also attracted to preteens, but is also married and loves his wife very much.


Does his wife know?

I can only assume it has to do with the way people in a romantic relation experience sex. To them sex is the product of love. That ultimate way to show love to each other. Not what you see in porn movies, thats just lust. Because I never had someone that loved me, and then had sex with me because she loved me, I can simply not imagine how it must be to have sex with someone you really love! And so I want to avoid sexual thoughts about girls I really truly love. Please don't start the "you don't know what love is" crap. What I feel for this girl in real life is not between my legs but in my heart and I even cried few days ago because I can't tell her how much I like her.


The part that has me confused here is that you keep saying things like you want to "avoid" sexual thoughts about these girls, and that you "refuse" to masturbate to them, which implies that you do in fact have sexual feelings for them but you keep pushing them away. The difference here is vital, because it determines what type of feeling you're experiencing. Do you have sexual feelings, but refuse to masturbate or act on them, or do you just not have those feelings for these specific girls?

If it's the latter, then in all likelihood what you're feeling for these kids isn't actually romantic love, it's what's called puppy love, something we can experience even before we reach puberty, so I suppose that would explain why it's not (overtly) connected to sex. It's not that you can't connect love and sex, it's that the type of love you're feeling isn't sexual in nature, or at least not blatantly sexual. You're probably still more than capable of feeling romantic love for an adult woman you're in a relationship with, and if that ever happens believe me you'll know. The difference in intensity is remarkable, understand that people give up their lives - even take the lives of others - for romantic love. It is by far the most intense and perception altering emotion we're capable of feeling and that's what separates it from conventional compassion or puppy love. According to recent research, it's so noticeable that scientists can actually tell who's in love by looking at brain scans.

Puppy love on the other hand I experienced myself with a girl in my infant school, I remember her to this day because she represents the first time I recall ever expressing such interest in an individual girl (I'd expressed interest in girls in general prior to this but never a fixation) - her name was Catherine. I must've been maybe 5 or 6 at the time. I considered her beautiful but not for sexual reasons since I didn't even know what sex was and hadn't even had my first erection yet - she was just aesthetically pleasing to me for some inexplicable reason, and I wanted to be around her all the time. The feeling was mutual, and we spent a lot of time just being with one another, usually not even talking, merely sitting together and laughing, looking into each other's eyes. It was as though we shared a private joke, but neither of us knew what the punchline was.

She moved schools not long after that and I remember feeling somewhat lost without her. Then of course I hit puberty and moved on, she still holds a special place in my memory though. I hope she had a good life, wherever she is.

I wish I could be with her, take her to the movies, get an ice cream with her, make her smile, be a friend to her. Of course there is no chance in a trillion years that her parents would ever allow a stranger to befriend their daughter.
Don't worry, I know my place.


Well, if you add puppy love to a developing paternal instinct that likely surfaces in most men in their 20's and 30's, you end up with a rather jumbled cross between puppy love and simple nurturing.

I have sexual thoughts about other girls, but not those I am truly in love with.
Look, why would I lie? Why would I deny one part but admit the other? There is no reason at all to lie.


The reason to lie would be denial, if you think masturbating to these kids besmirches them in some way, then I expect you'd think that merely having sexual feelings for them would also tarnish them, so you pretend you don't. That's why I asked earlier, to clarify, whether you have sexual feelings but are trying to get rid of them, or whether you just don't have them at all.

I also told this before, but I can tell you again. When I was 16-17 years old, Anna Kournikova was hot in media. She was the most photographed tennisplayer in womens circuit and of course I noticed her physical appearance on the court and on magazines. She was (still is) incredibly attractive. I had posters all over my walls and went to see her play as well. Wanna know how many times I masturbated to her? Once! I still remember the photo.
Once, yes, because I felt masturbating to her would be degrading or something, right when in my perception I actually lift her up.


See, this is what I'm talking about. Obviously if you were able to masturbate to her, you must've had sexual feelings for her, which is why I asked. Although I am still curious as to why you consider masturbation degrading, even if you couldn't connect sex and love you still wouldn't consider masturbation as a negative thing, you'd just have no interest in it. Were you taught as a child that masturbation was filthy or wrong?

For masturbating I just used adult porn movies. They look good, they help me get off, but I also forget about them as fast. They are a quick fix. Don't you have this with adults? Don't you see a porn star as some eye candy for a quick fap, but other than that she doesn't really get in your head. But then theres women you are really interested in and not just for sex. Sex might not even be the biggest thing. If a friend of yours refers to that girl as some hot stuff, you then never get annoyed? Like you don't want him to see her as just a piece of meat.


Not really, I mean there are women whom I wish were appreciated for more than just their looks but that's because I respect their talents and I think it's a shame, not because I myself am infatuated with them and see their objectification as offensive to me personally. Generally with adult women, it starts with lust and then progresses into love, endorphins are produced during or after sex which results in a euphoric feeling and this tends to encourage emotional attachment. Which is increased if your personality happens to be compatible with your partner's. Having experienced both celebrity crushes, and romantic love for a woman I'm in a relationship with, I can safely say for me they are entirely different.

You mean "the fact that most child molesters that are caught are pedophiles"? All you have now is indeed the statistics of child molestation that gets reported. And based on that you shoot down an entire group of people who is attracted to children.


I didn't shoot them down, I just don't think we know enough to say non offending paedophiles are harmless. We have to remember that paedophiles are only paedophiles if they're under extreme stress and/or suffer interpersonal difficulty as a result of their attraction. Isolated, alienated people under extreme stress can be dangerous, and the fact that their fixation is on the most helpless members of society means it would be much easier for them to act out their urges. Well, less easy as society becomes more paranoid, but in principle.

It's as insane as targeting heterosexual men, saying they are a danger to women because mostly when an adult is raped, the victim is gonna be a female and the rapist is gonna be a woman.


Generally rape is more about power than it is about sex so the analogy isn't really applicable, but let's assume it was about sex, suppose we were talking about a celibate-by-necessity heterosexual, isolated, alienated and under extreme stress, then what?







Valar morghulis

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[deleted]

I denied, or rather avoided answering or confirming to being a pedophile because I feared consequences...


I addressed this in the other thread, if you wanna respond there.

Even then it was just the decision of one or a few men who have no knowledge of what is and isn't child porn and most likely to not get burnt, removed the links from google search. Heck, they remove adds nowadays based on some 21 year old model looking too young and the picture giving a creepy impression!
http://metro.co.uk/2015/05/06/sexually-suggestive-miu-miu-ad-banned-because-the-model-looks-like-a-young-girl-5183110/


What is and isn't child porn is subjective, but there comes a point where you have to admit most people would agree that a particular photograph is sexualized, even if there are others more open to interpretation. A child in a dominatrix outfit falls into the former category in my view, there's not a lot of room for interpretation there.

Theres mass hysteria nowadays surrounding the young girls / pedo thing.
Throw in things like abercrombie releasing thongs for preteens and media on one hand sexualizing children and on the other jumping on everything that has the name pedo and you have a very confused and misguided society.


Of course, it's a legitimate point that society sexualizes children while at the same time criticizing the sexualization of children, but the important thing is that we agree sexualizing them is wrong.

Anyway, I can confirm not one photo made by Candydoll shows a girls genitals, bare chest or any other parts that shouldn't be shown nude. That the outfits were kinky at times is true. But take a look at the halloween costumes you can buy for your preteens nowadays.
https://endtimebibleprophecy.wordpress.com/2014/10/12/if-the-celebration-of-halloween-wasnt-bad-enough-time-to-take-a-stand/ Don't go all "this is kids just being kids, pretending to be a nurse or a cop".


Those are a little more difficult to judge, since a dominatrix outfit is pretty much exclusively associated with sex, whereas a cop outfit, devil and angel outfits and so forth are a bit more of a grey area. They don't show much skin either, the girls are wearing leggings or dark tights, tops aren't low cut. Having said that, the cop outfit in particular looks more like a police costume you'd see in a bad porn movie than an actual uniform you'd see female police officers wearing, so I can see why it would raise a few eyebrows. Make-up isn't necessary either.

I do hope you're not spending too much time on an End Times Bible Prophecy website though, sites like that are full of prudish fundies with apocalypse fantasies, the same people writing that article would probably have paedophiles burned at the stake if they had the chance.

Same with the "single ladies" girls. 7 year olds in fishnet gloves, knee high stockings, frilly mini skirts and burlesque ish bikini tops dancing to Beyonce's hit. "Just wanna dance like Beyonce, their idol". No, first of all there were very few moves from Beyonce's dance in the choreography. And more importantly, protecting children also includes keeping their innocent intact and shielded from all the mass overload of sex in media and society as a whole. Nowadays it's normal for a 9 year old to shake her butt and end up on youtube and get "likes" or subscribers and whats worst is that the mom often was cheering her on to shake more and harder. Sorry but thats wrong. Thats as wrong as the clips of toddlers shouting "fck you, d.ckhead" for the cam while dad films it. Then the dad chuckles, as if it's funny the lil feller said something offensive.


In some cases I think it's worth questioning what the intention was behind it. Who was responsible for having the girls dress up like that during their dance routine? Did they want to, or (much like child beauty pageants), did their parents encourage them or force them into it? Sometimes kids see this stuff on TV and just want to play dress up, it's not always a case of deliberate sexualization which is what I meant by "kids being kids". When I was a kid I wanted to play with toy guns because I saw movies with people shooting each other, I understood that shooting people was wrong but it was still fun to pretend.

Girls generally don't gravitate toward that sort of stuff, but they do see female singers or models dressing sexy and being adored for it, so they naturally want to emulate them because they think they'll be loved for it. Part of the problem there is pop culture itself, when videos like Anaconda by Nicki Minaj are out there and kids are growing up watching them, you'll inevitably see little girls and young teens copying it. Especially when parents probably aren't explaining to them why it's not "female empowerment" as Minaj claims, but objectification.

There also has to be a line in the sand somewhere, you said you have a thing for children in swimsuits, would you say we should stop children from wearing swimsuits?

Sensible and interesting views, those are nowhere to be found on chan boards.
BTW; unlike what you think, I am not a "channer". I don't visit 4chan or any other chan board regularly. I visit them almost never actually. Only on occasion when I'm on the toilet and have nothing to read with me, I check out "/b/" or.. no joke, "/s/" which is the board for "sexy beautiful women". I'm serious! I have a whole folder with adult women downloaded from 4chan.


I visited a few times years ago but very rarely, mainly because of the surprise gore thing they had going more so than the child porn which had been cracked down on by the time I went there, I decided I didn't want to be scrolling down a thread that had nothing to do with violence, only to come across a random photo of a guy's dick being mutilated or a partially liquefied corpse or some sadistic prick holding up his dog's severed head. The most recent time I went there was about six months back, during which time I was unfortunate enough to stumble upon the photos described in this news story:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2826145/Man-Washington-homicide-held-2-million-bond.html

What the guy typed was even more disturbing than the pictures if I recall, I think he talked about how hard she fought while he strangled her to death, it was pretty horrific. But what got to me most was the mental image of the victim's thirteen year-old son coming home from school and finding his mother's naked dead body splayed out on the bed. Got a sick feeling in my stomach every time I thought about it, poor kid. He's never gonna get over that, ever.

I only DISCOVERED it after puberty. During puberty, I was still crushing on 12 year olds, but didn't really think much of the age difference that was growing between myself and the girls I fancied. I also had my head full with grown women and since I didn't even consider the word pedophile, it was a rare word in those days, so I wasn't really wondering about it all. I remember I was still crushing on a 13 year old girl from a Flemish movie and I didn't even hide it in school, even not towards a teacher who allowed me to bring the movie to school and watch it towards the end of the schoolyear when we had not much left to do in class. We all once fancied a preteen girl. With me, the ability to do that remained after I grew older. During a certain time of my youth I didn't think about preteens anymore because I was too busy thinking about 12-13-14 year olds as well as adult porn stars in all the movies I rented.


We all once fancied pubescent girls, sure, but not prepubescents. You said you can be attracted to kids as young as 5 and usually it's around 8, were you attracted to 5-8 year-olds during your teens?

It's true that I like anything related to youth and children. The Disney stuff, bedsheets and all. I know that ain't normal. What 33 year old guy sleeps under a duvet of Disney's Frozen??? Well, I do. I would never tell anyone at work or so. I know thats not normal. But it makes me happy. This link to youth shows in how I feel when I drive past an elementary school. Yes yes, even when the school is out for summer vacation and no kids are there! Just a place like that makes me feel nostalgic. Yes, I was bullied, but I have fun memories as well. Apart from the bullies, I liked being a child and I miss being a child. I wish I could go back to those days.


What is it specifically that you miss about being a child?

She didn't know until recently when a mail with preview pictures popped up on his phone and she saw the mail. He's in deep trouble now with his wife. I hope they can get through it because he's not a bad guy and doesn't deserve a divorce and a bad name in the family. He always told me if she found out, she'd castrate him so he never dared to tell.


The mistake he made there was to carry on the life while he's with her, it's a recipe for disaster, sooner or later she's bound to find out. Does he have a plan as to how to handle it? If he admits what he is, and she's able to overlook it, I'd be very surprised.

Maybe "refuse" is not the right word because I don't have to actually fight any sexual urge when it comes to for example, this one girl I saw in real life.
Not like when I have to fight to not buy a bag of potato chips and when I succeed not buying, so I refuse. Or is resist a better word here? I want to buy chips but I decided not to. (lost 18 kilos by now btw and still going of course) But with this girl, there are no sexual feelings and urges I have to fight and resist.


That's a good thing, weight loss won't just help your self esteem, it'll also improve your health too so even if you didn't succeed in the dating department, you'd at least be able to increase longevity.

Funny enough, the feelings I have for this girl that I don't feel aroused by, are actually far more intense in my heart than any sexual attraction I ever felt to any model or any porn star out there. My interest goes so much further with this girl. I wanna know who she is, what she likes, what she does, what her humor is what music she likes and so on.
With a porn star i like, Aletta Ocean for example, it's just well.. big tits and a nice ass, lets fap! But do I know what movies she likes? No and I'm not interested in finding out either. She's attractive, hope she has a nice life, but to me Aletta Ocean and the other females I fap to are just .. eye candy for those five or ten minutes.


Have you spoken to the girl?

I don't disagree with you on this one. And then I think back on the theory of stunted development. Hah, I remember a post by a guy about 13 years ago when I just started to use the Internet at home. I was on this message board linked to a popular TV station in my country and this one guy said "Did you stop developing after 10 or what?". I laughed it away, thinking it was funny. Little did I know that he may have said the truth there. Well, not that I'm actually a ten year old in my head like someone with down syndrome or whatever. But it is remarkable how many times people online who don't know my real age thought I was a lot younger. Some even thought I was a girl. Apparently I can act like a pissed off female.


I think people believing you're a girl also had a lot to do with your choice of usernames, which usually contained the names of whichever child model or child actress you were into at the time, that coupled with the doll talk and such probably led people to assume you were female. As for the stunted development theory though, I'm not entirely sure that's the case, if it was then you might be more like the exclusive paedophiles who didn't find adult women attractive at all, and also lacked the intellect that comes with being an adult. Your blueprint of puppy love has been overwritten, just not completely, perhaps it's not that your development was stunted, but your "blueprint" was just larger than normal, so to speak.

I used to be all over a girl when I was 7-8 years old. Her name was Bianca and I still have the class photo with her on it. Even now when I see her on that picture, I feel the same thing as I did then. I managed to get her phone number few years ago, but I didn't dare to contact her.


Why not? She'd be your age now, no? Don't see any harm in that, if I could remember Catherine's surname I'd probably look her up on Facebook just to see how she's doing. Although to be fair, I actually prefer remembering her the way she was, it'd be really sad if I found her and she ended up looking like a miserable crack addict or something, that'd be too depressing. Not that there aren't happy people who still look like crack addicts, I suppose I can't judge based entirely on appearances.

In school I once gave her a kiss on the cheek, unasked and unexpected and she was mad! So I suppose she'll think of me as that weird stupid kid who kissed her in front of all the other kids.


Even if she did I doubt she'd care, you were both kids, you could probably use that as a conversation opener and have a laugh about it. Did you have any mutual connection with a girl at that age? I remember on one occasion, I must've been about 9 at the time, I smacked a girl roughly the same age on the ass because I'd seen adults do it to each other for a laugh and they seemed to enjoy it, except she didn't. So she whirled around and slapped me across the face, full force. Didn't forget that lesson quickly.






Valar morghulis

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[deleted]

I must add though that I never saw any signs of molestation. The pics were not nude, the girls kept going for 30 or more sets and they seemed to have a good time. There are clips that werent published on the candydoll site but leaked through social media of the girls hanging out together. Many of the models are found on social media by now including Valensiya. They all turned out to be normal teenagers and far as I can tell, their modeling didn't mess them up.

Here's Valensiya's "pixgram".
https://pixgram.co/veronikaa__20/
Veronika Serebryakova is her real name.
She's looking good and she does what every teenager does. Dumping a ton of selfies on insta and other grams.
It's nice to see her again.


I suppose it would be very bad business for them if they were molesting their child models, that's generally not something I'd consider too likely, but sexualizing the kids with PVC outfits sends the wrong message and it should be stopped. It also makes me wonder if too much emphasis is placed on a child's appearance as she's growing up, she might end up being shallow and obsessed with her looks, since she spent a large portion of her childhood in make-up and being told to wear different outfits, pose and look pretty for the camera.

And thats what I don't get. Why would any parent force her or his daughter in a role of a lust object, a sexy or as they prefer to put it "sassy" girl shaking her "booty" to the judges and the audience at a dance competition. Some routines are, while technically mindblowing, simply way over the top for a preteen. Kaycee Rice is such a girl. She has incredible energy and nails every move, but her routines are so.. too much!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82WwqXyyWXg
This would fit a Nicki Minaj, not a ten year old!


Yeah, that's undoubtedly overboard, it's borderline comical at times - when I see stuff like that, it's almost as amusing as seeing an adult running around in a diaper, it just looks bizarre. At least until I remember what this says about our society, at which point it's no longer funny. As for why parents would force or encourage their daughters to do this, I think I have a pretty good idea - it's living vicariously through their children. Basically most of the parents are overweight soccer mom types with faded youth and faded looks, and they want to recapture that glory so they try to do it via their kids. Or they're women who were never pretty and want to experience it through the eyes of their daughters by dressing them up to look older way before their time. It's sad really, these parents are often extremely self-absorbed individuals.

If you wanna find out what type of routine I like instead of that overly sexualized frank arrogant routine, look up Chandelier - Sia, with Dance Moms Maddie Ziegler dancing a stunning beautiful choreography.


I looked it up briefly and just saw the poor kid with her hair tied up in a bun so tight it looks like it's about to rip her scalp off. That's unnecessary.

Correction: I have a thing for females in one piece swimsuits. I have a folder with photos of adult women in one pieces and I have downloaded quite some adult porn with that as a theme. (believe it or not, but especially in Japan they have it as a sub-category. One-piece swimsuits.. :p) And of course we shouldn't stop children from wearing swimsuits. You are trying to make a point about banning something I find attractive so I won't look anymore? Whether a girl is in a bikini or an eskimo outfit, I'll look. Thats not the problem. The problem is the hypocricy in parents hating on pedophiles but at the same time sexualizing their own kids. That sends a very confusing message into the world for both the children and the pedophiles.


It is a confusing message, I agree, but these parents usually don't care about anything or anyone except themselves and simply rant and rave about paedophiles because it's something to get on a soapbox about rather than because they actually have a legitimate concern. You'll find that in society there are two types of people: those who complain for justifiable reasons, and those who complain because they enjoy complaining, parents who sexualize their kids tend to fall into the latter category. They're affectionately referred to as the "soccer mom brigade" in the US, from what I've heard. They'll whine over just about anything, from violent video games to religious bollocks, as long as it means they get to open their mouths. Usually while being too dumb to see what's actually going on with their children, because their heads are too far lodged up their own asses.

I dislike the gore and other crap on 4chan just as much. I barely ever visit the place. But I don't think it's right to associate 4chan with gore and child porn.


Not entirely, I know it has more to offer than that, but those are the experiences that stand out due to their shocking nature and of course 4chan's reputation is less than stellar, to put it mildly. That's without even mentioning the online terrorist groups, which seem to have a mixed response.

Stay away from the /b/ (random) board and give /s/ a try.
If you are into videogames, the /V/ board is nice. Truth be told, the combined knowledge of so many people does impress. You can ask any question, 99% chance someone out there will be able to answer. Same goes for identifying some porn star. Just post a picture in the right section and there'll be someone who knows who it is. For those things 4chan is handy.


I think reddit is better personally, I visit there occasionally for video game related news or humour. Although someone did link to a subreddit once called "watchpeopledie" which had some extremely disturbing videos, but I take full responsibility for that since I didn't have to follow the link - morbid curiosity got the better of me. It's not like 4chan where you scroll down and see a giant image you can't unsee, reddit generally gives you a bit more warning. They also have a subreddit called "eyebleach" that actually helps people get over the sick stuff they've seen on the internet with adorable photos and videos of puppies and cute animals and other cute stuff. Pretty much guaranteed to send you away with a smile. I think 4chan could've done with something like that, back in the day.

Now turns out this is a very rare photo of princess Ameera bint Aidan bin Nayef Al-Taweel Al-Otaibi. *catches breath* A Saudi Arabian princess! Amira was just the way the Dutch press decided to spell her name. PS; she STILL is very beautiful!

So, I was attracted but I didn't masturbate to her! That was done with adult porn stars and Pamela Anderson in Baywatch. There are the one-piece swimsuits again. Perhaps Baywatch is to blame for my swimsuit and high leg cut fixation.


How old was Princess Ameera blah blah?

I miss the relative worry-less life. Just go to school, go home, make your homework and play! Laying outside staring up at the sky and wondering if the blue in the sky is the reflection of the ocean. Grabbing a shovel and digging in a corner of the backyard, thinking I was gonna reach China or Australia. And at 30 cm deep, I would hold my ear down and could swear I heard Kangaroos jump! Almost there, just a lil more! I miss the imagination I had playing with action figures. I kept doing that to a very late age actually. With shame I confess I must have been 13-14 when I finally quit playing with action figures from TMNT and Action Man. I even went to see the Power Rangers live and I was 13! I was like the oldest and tallest kid around there.


I actually stopped playing with action figures later than usual too, my family were on my back about it a lot and I didn't understand why at the time. I remember I threw out nearly all my toys (which were mostly cheapy things because we couldn't afford much, but they were all valuable to me), yet I kept the three best ones which were also the three most expensive - two action men, and one large figure of the T-800 from T2 since I was a huge Terminator fan. I would draw cuts and bruises on the action men because it never seemed realistic to me that I made them fight and they never got injured, but because I wanted to constantly change the placement of the blood, I would wet my finger and rub the ink off and start again. Eventually this resulted in the action men's faces turning smudged red and black, which looked kind of freakish - like a Darth Maul impersonator in a scuba outfit.

I was a big Ninja Turtles fan as well, there's a photo of me somewhere as a child at a friend's party with a turtles t-shirt on, playing that game where you try to eat an apple hanging by a string. I only ever saw the cartoon episodes on VHS, I don't even know if they were on TV in my country, and they were renamed Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles due to some copyright bollocks I think. I saw the Ninja Turtles live at a place called Butlins - a local affordable holiday resort, they danced alongside these guys called the Whiz Kids, who were dressed in the most 90's getup you could possibly imagine. Bumbags, caps on backwards, tie-dyed t-shirts, the whole shebang. It was goofy and ridiculous, but when you're a kid you don't care, I thought it was awesome.

I miss sitting in school and cozy Friday afternoons. When we were in the class learning about history or religion and the teacher read stories from a book while the raindrops made their typical sound against the windows.


Yeah, I remember those moments, especially with the milk which got passed around, although ours was in bottles rather than cartons like it is in places like the US. Ever see Kindergarten Cop? They captured that atmosphere beautifully with the scene where Arnie's reading the quiet story to the kids, brought me right back to my childhood.

I miss how everything seemed bigger when I was a kid. Isn't that a weird thing?? Ever returned to your toddler/elementary school as an adult? The space seemed so much bigger when you were a short lil kid with short legs and small feet.


Yeah, although I was a tall kid for my age, everything did seem bigger back then. I returned to my infant school when I was an adult, and it looks depressing and unforgiving now, nothing like it used to. When I went there it was open out and somewhat beautiful even though it was a relatively average school, they had a memorial garden for a friend of mine's younger brother who'd died of some illness and it always looked pleasant and inviting. These days it's gone, the school is surrounded by tall, menacing bars, and the yard is mostly bare. I guess some incident must've happened that led them to increase security, and the place suffered aesthetically, it might still be a great place to go for all I know, but it certainly doesn't look as nice as it once did.

My secondary school (puberty school, basically) looks a lot better today though. Amusingly, they got a £500,000 grant literally the week after I left and the whole school was revamped to look posh and modern. Hardly the most responsible of schools, they pretty much made anyone a prefect regardless of good behaviour - it could've been worse, and there were worse schools, but I hated that place.

I think back on that Sunday afternoon when it was raining like mad and I was bored. I stayed inside of course and turned on the TV because what else could you do back in the late 80s, early 90s in suct a situation?


In such a situation I would've ran outside and stood in the rain, for some reason as a kid I absolutely loved the rain. I mean I still do, but I was mad about it as a child, if possible I would deliberately go outside whenever it rained (much to the chagrin of my family) and just stand there and catch the rain on my tongue or run/dance around like a maniac, go for a walk around the block, that sort of thing. I don't know what it was, but it carried over into adulthood, sometimes I still go for walks whenever it rains. Kissing in the rain is something special too, if you ever experience that you'll know what I'm talking about. It's perhaps the one thing chick flicks don't exaggerate - kissing in the rain does feel somewhat magical. I'm not even sure why, it just falls into that category of strange emotions we don't entirely know the source of.

They played "The Land Before Time". I was so drawn into it, I cried! Then I felt so sad on an already rainy grey sad day. LOL! I was and still am so easily affected by sad things on TV. It's like I'm .. empathic super sensitive? I don't know if that is the correct way to say it but you get my point I hope.


The Land Before Time was a favourite of mine too, we used to watch that as a family in the living room and we'd always get upset at the part where Littlefoot's mother dies. Then we'd get an elated feeling at the end when they finally come across the Great Valley, and start singing along with Diana Ross during the credits.  I think everyone was moved by that film, you're not alone there.

The plan is to deny, come up with excuses and wait till it fades as time passes by. He does feel bad for living that double life and sort of betraying her. He thinks about saying goodbye to all this stuff now.


I would strongly advise doing that if I were him, it's only got one outcome really if he continues to carry on the life, now that she suspects she's even more likely to find out sooner or later if he keeps it up.

Every kilo I lose gives me more motivation to carry on. Too bad it goes so slow. Some weeks I keep hanging on the same weight. And I really need to make an effort to lose some because as soon as I let myself go a little with some fries or a bag of chips, I'm sporting for nothing as the calories going in outweigh the calories burnt. It's a work in progress and it'll always be one I'm afraid because even when I reach a good weight, I'll always have to be careful with what I eat and maintain the sporting schedule to burn calories. Else I'll end up like many who lost weight. Gaining it again, or twice!


Yeah, I know what you mean about that, I'm not one of the lucky ones who have fast metabolisms and can eat anything they like without gaining weight - sadly I gain weight very quickly so I have to watch everything I eat as well and keep up my workout routine, otherwise I'll start getting flabby and I've been through that a few times. What sort of exercises are you doing? I'd recommend using this opportunity to start lifting weights too, makes you feel stronger which boosts self esteem further. It's great when you can't lift a certain weight, but then a couple of weeks later after more practice, you find that you can lift it, the measurable increase in strength feels extremely productive. Put some earphones in, blast Hearts on Fire or another Survivor song, and get pumped up, it's a rush. Plenty of excellent and cheap equipment out there as well, I wish I'd had a father to teach me this earlier so I could've started lifting younger, women tend to respond positively to strong looking arms as well, that's a plus.

No. I saw her on a dance stage in town where dance schools were showing off their skills and promoting their business. With social media and a few names such as a dance school name, it's peanuts to find anyone if they have a profile. Her face, her smile, her eyes, her hair. I can't forget her. And none of these feelings have bad intentions. I'm just .. cursed! It's a curse, yes. I'll agree with that.


If you know you're probably gonna go through this every time, why look these girls up? Isn't it like a moth to a flame?

I heard it ring! I was like "omfg turn off you stupid thing!!!" and then suddenly "hello?" 0.0 OMG SHE PICKED UP!!!
I couldn't bare saying "hi, its me :D" Instead after failing to find the power button to activate lockscreen and unlock and all, I removed the battery! HAHA!
Man. What a clown I was. Couldn't just say hi to the girl.. ON THE PHONE!!!

Hopefully this gives you an idea of how bad it is with me and the ladies.


That's not too bad actually, you were completely unprepared, she was important to you and you accidentally rang her out of the blue after years, it's understandable to be thrown off. If you'd been more prepared, could you have said hello to her if she'd called you?

Admit, you didn't wash your cheek for days!


I just remember being totally in shock, I'd never been slapped by a girl before, least of all that hard. My cheek was bright red and hot, and I just kind of trudged away feeling sorry for myself. Then when it wore off, I kind of wanted to do it again just to see if she'd slap me again, but I exercised a bit of restraint.






Valar morghulis

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[deleted]

From the personal photos these girls post on social media during and after their "career" as a model, I get the impression they are just teenagers and adults like everyone else. One of the most iconic models, sorry to put it like that but she was the most famous model of all for many years in this hidden world of "childmodels", turned out just fine. She married a guy, has a child herself already at the age of 20 (bit young in my opinion but she seems like a happy and loving mom).


To be fair though, we can't judge people's personal lives from their Facebook photos, those are usually examples of the happiest times rather than the saddest times. I've had friends whose Facebook is littered with countless vacation photos and smiling faces and seemingly idyllic images, but I know them and I know they're suffering from depression or drinking problems, or family/marriage problems, financial problems and so forth. Facebook isn't really an accurate representation of a person's life, it's usually what that person wants people to think their life is like. We're never in the mood to snap photos of ourselves when we're upset or having issues, after all.

I don't know what clip you saw, but thats not the one.
I'm talking about the official music video to Sia's Chandelier.
Maddie is wearing a white wig.
-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vjPBrBU-TM
Sia's songs are often very personal to her, digging deep in her own emotions and experiences.


I can see why it's emotional, although at her age I'm sure she has limited experiences to choose from. Bizarre dance moves, it looks like she can't decide whether she wants to be graceful or throw a tantrum and yell for ice cream.

There's a more recent single released by Sia, "Elastic Heart".
https://youtu.be/KWZGAExj-es
The Chandelier clip received both good and bad criticism.
The bad comments were about Maddie wearing a skin colored leotard, "appearing nude". To call it nude is a bit silly. For a setting like that and such a routine, she wouldn't look good in a colorful outfit.

But this second video got some serious hate because Maddie dances with Shia LaBeouf. He's wearing underpants and they dance inside a cage. And of course, people are gonna see twisted crap in this routine. A shame actually because it is true art and also here there is a story behind this whole video. It's about the relation Sia had with her father. A man who struggled with his own demons and could be a loving kind man one moment and an angry agressive man the next.
The way I interpret the video is that Sia is trapped together with her father.
But she manages to escape, to break out of their prison. She wants to pull her father with her into freedom, but he can't. Or rather, he doesn't dare to escape. A very strong performance by Shia there at the end when he doesn't wanna let go of her while she is already outside of the cage.

Anyway, sorry. I get carried away. :X


That's a strangely appropriate video for Shia LaBeouf to be in. Recently it seems he's all about weird artsy material, I think he believes it makes him seem "deep" and "edgy". Having said that, I can definitely see why it provoked that sort of reaction - it looks odd to see a half naked grown man chasing a little girl in a skin coloured leotard around inside a cage and staring longingly at her body. I suppose you could say it was "necessary" for them to be wearing very little in order to symbolize vulnerability and degradation or something to that effect, but they can't have been surprised that the public was a bit creeped out by it, regardless of the story and motivation behind the video.

Never thought I'd say this but I feel sad for you. Back when I was a child, our finances were pretty good. I got lots of toys, I guess my mother and grandmother did their best to get me toys I wanted as a way to make up for the lack of friends in my life. On Birthdays, I was always alone. Nobody would come over to my party. Heck, I didn't even had a party.


Boo-hoo, poor me. I never had a party either actually, I went to lots of other people's parties but never had my own. Even after our financial situation improved and eventually as an adult, I've still never had my own birthday party. I made it clear I don't like surprise parties either, so no one ever threw me one and I like it that way - being the center of attention isn't really my thing, and I don't like being reminded that I'm one year older. In fact, I've never even had my own birthday cake, just presents. First world problems I suppose, here I am saying I've never had a party or a cake and there's starving kids in poverty stricken countries who've never had a proper meal, let alone a birthday cake.

Lol, I never went that far. I did repaint all my matchbox cars once.
Haha, you had the scuba diving action man? With black and yellow outfit and a harpoon and all? That was my second Action Man. My first was the red ninja. Action maaan the greatest hero of them all! Those were really good toys. So big, durable and flexible limbs.


Yep, the scuba diving one, don't think I had the harpoon though. We got most of my toys from jumble sales, I remember there was a great jumble sale we used to go to every fortnight or so that was in this huge gym room filled with stalls where people sold all sorts of really cheap toys. Even though most of them were so crappy they broke within the week, I loved it.

From Terminator I had that weird toy set where you had a skeleton on a stand with a plastic case around it. You had to put some sort of powder in a tube and mix it with water. Then pump the whole thing into the plastic case, wait a few minutes and then open the case to find a human looking Arnie miniature with "real flesh". As if this wasn't weird enough, the obscurity doesn't stop there because there was also a plastic knife that came along with the box so you could cut away parts of the flesh and slowly but surely reveal the skeleton.


I think I had a friend who had that one, this is the one I had:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/THE-TERMINATOR-Arnold-Schwarzenegger-Lights-Sounds-Figure-13-Kenner-/381269203133

As an adult I saw these gorgeous hand painted collector's item toys of the T-1000 and the T-800 from T2 years later on eBay, designed meticulously by a really talented company called Hot Toys (they also design a whole host of other movie themed toys like Robocop and the like) - as a kid I would've probably drooled over them endlessly. I'm definitely not a collector but hell, even now admittedly if they weren't so damned expensive I'd get one just to stare at and admire the beauty of the work. Here's a couple:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TERMINATOR-T2-T800-DX13-DX-13-BATTLE-DAMAGED-VER-HOTTOYS-FIGURE-PA-AQ3987a-/191591770787?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2c9bc26aa3

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hot-Toys-12-ROBOCOP-MMS202D04-DIECAST-with-Sound-Effect-1-6-Action-Figure-EMS-/351402153067?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item51d133546b

I saw the movie but don't remember anything from it anymore. Maybe I should watch again.


You should check it out, it has a tendency to evoke childhood memories and it has a certain charm about it. Plus it's Arnold, can't really go wrong there.

I focus on burning calories now. Thats my main thing. I could build a great body, no doubt. I have a good frame for that with a wide chest and shoulders, but then I'd have to go to a gym and I'm not into walking around between super buffed guys showing off with their body.


You could always get some cheap home equipment, that's how I started.

No, I'll just keep on burning calories, eating less fat food, drinking sugar free diet soda and water only in combination with a daily session on the mountainbike/hometrainer every day. Speaking of this. Do you know something about burning calories and how to get the best result? I read that an ideal heartrate for burning calories isn't too low, but certainly not too high either. Around 120 is ideal I read.
The problem I have is my beta-blockers. I take medication for high blood pressure. The beta-blockers block signals in the brain to give my heart some rest. The result is my heartrate is seriously limited. When I'm on the PC or laying in bed, it is between 45 and 55 beats per minute.
When I exercise on the home trainer and push 150watt worth of resistance with the 20kg heavy magnetic flywheel, so thats medium exercise, not going mental yet but a work out that I can keep up for half an hour at least, my heart rate never goes higher than 112. Even when I raise the resistance to 75% which is damn hard to push through, my heartrate simply wont go up.


If you're on medication, your best bet is to consult a doctor about it and they'll either tell you what to do, or refer you to someone who knows what to tell you. They also might lower the dosage of your meds so you can increase your heart rate.

I know, but it's curiosity. And it's not like I experience this every month or even every year. It's rare I develop feelings for a girl I saw in real life.


Why is it rare?

Could, yea. It's not like I'm unable to pronounce words to a girl. But there's that low self esteem that is in the way. The way I see myself is so bad, I apply that view on everyone. I see myself as an ugly stupid dork. So everyone else must see me that way as well.


Some people might share that view, others may not, depends entirely on the person. When they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder, for the most part they're pretty much on the money. Ultimately though women are attracted to confidence and if you see yourself that way, they'll probably start to see you that way too even if they don't at first, because self loathing isn't attractive. Nobody's saying you have to exude confidence and walk around like you own the place or anything, I think women prefer quiet confidence more than anything, just being sure of yourself and comfortable in your own skin. Don't need to be gloriously happy with how you look or anything, just accepting that this is who you are, and people can take it or leave it.







Valar morghulis

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You do realize it's called a paraphilia in the diagnostics and statistics manual for mental disorders? That means it is an abnormal sexual preference. Abnormal, but not an illness. It is only diagnosed as a mental disorder if the pedophile suffers stress caused by the attractions, interpersonal difficulties and/or has acted on his attraction.


It doesn't specify what actually constitutes acting on attractions, technically masturbating to photos is acting on your attractions, inaction would be not doing anything at all and trying not to pursue such feelings - which any rational person would do if they found they were capable of this. You on the other hand gleefully went down that path even further and chose to explore your sexual attraction to kids, rather than sticking to healthier, more productive fantasies. We discussed this before though, I expect you pursued it due to self loathing and lack of confidence, and rather than solving the problem it actually made it worse, because you ended up feeling even more isolated from society.

Furthermore, you've never had a girlfriend (or even kissed a girl), you were unemployed for over 12 years, you had no friends whatsoever, but... what, you experienced no stress or interpersonal difficulty caused by your paedophilia?  It's certainly possible that paedophilia, in some rare situations, might not be considered a psychiatric disorder, but in your case in undoubtedly is.







Valar morghulis

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[deleted]

With acting on it, I am more thinking about acts that involve harm to the child.
If you are thinking about a girl, what can you do about it? Simply stop thinking about her? That doesn't work.


I know, I'm saying the actual criteria itself doesn't specify what constitutes acting on it - they could mean masturbating, or they could mean molesting a child. You can obviously refrain from masturbating to children even if you're attracted to them, and I expect the main reason you didn't is because you felt you had no future with adult women anyway so you had nothing to lose by crossing that line. If you'd had hope for the future, or had experienced attention from women, you'd be far more reluctant to go down that road and would've maybe just stayed away from such material so that the feelings never got any stronger.

I know you'll try to pin down stress caused by the attraction now as a reason to diagnose me as a mentally ill person because I said that I cried recently for this girl I saw in real life, because I can't tell her how much I like her. To me thats just a natural response to the situation. It's heartache.


It's quite different for you though, no? It's not like this girl rebuffed your affections and you got upset, only to later reassure yourself that there are plenty more fish in the sea, so to speak. You can't even tell this girl you like her, let alone have a chance with her, and there are not plenty more fish in the sea. In fact there isn't even a sea, just a barren desert wasteland, at least with regard to children. That weighs on a person's mind and creates a lot more than temporary heartache or longing, but a deep, obsessive craving that only grows worse with time.

I been in the same job for almost 3 years now. You still throwing the unemployment at my face now? Jeez, man. Move the F on! It wasn't over or just 12 years by the way, stop exaggerating everything.


It must've been at least 12 years though, you said you had never had a job before the one you got a few years ago, so surely you'd been unemployed for quite some time if we take into account the age at which people generally start looking for work (or higher education, which you also didn't get). I'm not throwing it in your face, I'm merely including it as an example of things that were indirectly caused or worsened by your paedophilia. I'd also wager that the reason you have this job now was by necessity rather than choice, would you have looked for work because you genuinely wanted to work and socialize had it not been for your circumstances?

And indeed, I still claim that my sexual attraction has never caused me stress.


That's because you view it as a positive thing, without really considering the negative impacts. Much like addictive substances, it's both your best friend and your worst enemy, since although it provides temporary alleviation from your depression, it also adds to it. Because of this attraction, you are far more alienated from society than self esteem issues would make you, and the attraction itself can't even be acted upon without causing harm. Even so much as hugging a child you don't know would raise suspicions, so you're pretty much discouraged from any form of contact. Heterosexuals whose attractions aren't mutual can at least hug the girls they're attracted to or be around them for extended periods of time without inducing paranoia (unless they're being creepy and following them around or something). The combination of those hard truths must cause you extreme stress, you'd be inhuman not to be affected by that.

The LOVE I feel for this one girl now has me in pain, but thats because I wish I could tell her how I feel, wish I could be around her as a friend, but cant! And totally NOT because I am thinking about getting in bed with her but cant. I don't want that at all! It's not my desire. I don't even long to see her in a bikini or whatever. She is not a lust object! Weird for you to hear but I feel again like I did when I was in elementary school and liked this one girl, Bianca. That feeling in my stomach, my heart.
And no sex included.


Well, like I said in the other thread, that sounds like puppy love. Nonetheless, it doesn't matter if you're experiencing stress because you can't simply be with the girl, or because you want to have sex with her, the end result is the same: it's stressful. And let's be honest, would you be feeling this way as an adult about little girls if you weren't a paedophile? It's not likely, is it? After all, even with puppy love, it's probably a precursor to sexual feelings. That's why blokes who end up being gay talk about experiencing puppy love for other boys rather than girls, it's possible that puppy love is sort of an early psychological blueprint for sexuality. One which in your case may not have been completely overwritten, that's the best way of describing it.

That is really what I feel and if I could prove it, I would.
If you don't believe that, then we have nothing more to discuss.
I'm not gonna engage again in endless long conversations with you.


I'm trying to be open to the possibility, this is just unknown territory even for professionals - not a lot is known about paedophilia and trying to explore these options is made even more difficult by the inconsistencies inherent in what you're saying now and what you said in previous arguments. Even so, since my own opinions and intentions have changed over the years too, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in the interest of a fair discussion. Hell, in the spirit of change, I won't even refer to screenshots with the purpose of calling you a liar even if you say something which contradicts claims you may not recall which were made in older discussions.

Regardless of your level of integrity, it would be unreasonable of me to expect you to remember every little thing you said 4-5 years ago on a message board, so despite our history I'm willing to try wiping the slate clean and approaching this from a more open minded place. I won't start posts with the goal of catching you out, or stumping you, or out-wording you, or threatening you, etc. That's assuming you're willing to give me the benefit of the doubt, but that's your decision.







Valar morghulis

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[deleted]

I was in my early 20s still when I discovered the model sites online. I was curious and explored. It's true that I don't believe I'll ever find a woman to love me, and thus when I dream and crush on a girl, I can as well crush on any girl no matter where or what. I had a crush on a freaking CGI alien in Avatar! Of course if I had lived a different life, one where I'd have girlfriends to occupy my time, I would have undoubtedly ended in a different place than where I am now. Perhaps my attractions would never have been discovered, simply because there was no time or need for me to explore my sexuality further into a direction other than with adult women. But I don't wanna say that I went like "women don't want me, screw this, today I become a pedo".


At the same time though, you can't offload all the blame purely on circumstances, to some extent you have to be accountable for the fact that while you didn't believe women would ever want you, you didn't try very hard in the first place. Aside from that girl you said you asked out in school, beyond that you didn't make any further efforts to attract women and of course, with that you're basically guaranteeing no girl is ever going to date you. Unless you're a male model or an extremely successful rich dude or rock star, women aren't going to throw themselves at you and most blokes have to make the first move - that's just the way it is. Even if you get rejected over and over, the key is determination, I've seen blokes ask the same girls out several times and they eventually give in because they admire the guy's persistence. Fast forward and years later they're getting married, happens all the time.

It sure affected me deeply because I even shed tears in the past week. Not tears from "damn, I can't get her in my bed". Tears from just not being able to have her in my life. I can't talk to her, I can't add her on Facebook, I can't do anything but sit here and wait for this feeling to fade away. But do you wanna use that as a way to pin "mentall illness" on me? Anyone who's feeling something for a person they can't get, for whatever reason.. maybe your love remains unanswered because he/she already has someone or you aren't her type, anyone in such a situation will be affected by it and deal with some stress, craving, until it fades away.

Also, the actual fact of what I am doesn't bother me. But the way society reacts to pedophiles is what bothers me. Thats not caused by the attraction. It's caused by the reaction of the people on the attraction. Not to a point where it gives me unbearable stress, but you can imagine it's no joke living a life in secrecy. Never able to show my full real self to people, friends, coworkers...


I agree that the reaction society has to the attraction of course plays a huge part, but not being able to act on the attraction causes stress that's a direct result of the attraction itself. When it comes to that, it isn't society's fault that you can't act on it, you can't act on it because to act on it will cause harm to a child. So you're between a rock and a hard place, wanting to be around children (whether for sex or just to spend time with them, either way) but at the same time you say you don't want to hurt them. So you're under stress both from the attraction itself and society's attitude toward it. As for using this to pin the label of mental illness on you, clinical depression is considered a mental illness even without paedophilia being involved. This is something doctors are only beginning to pay attention to in recent years, before that it was just considered a "phase" and was largely ignored or dismissed which was disastrous for the afflicted. I have a friend who's on medication for it and she's making progress, it does wonders as long as you don't stay on it for too long, due to the dangers of addiction, it's mainly supposed to give you a head start rather than act as a permanent suppressant.

You think I sat on my ass for all those years? I have a folder full with job applications, all denied. And every time I went for an extra schooling, I was rejected for some stupid reason such as "need to have basics in French" or "need to have a drivers license". Sure, I could have taken just about any job. Wipe the toilets even, but in the first years of my search for a job I was hoping for a lil better than that.


Well I don't know what the schooling system is like in your country so I can't attest to that, though it sounds incredibly stupid to reject an application for higher education based on a driving license. In my country they couldn't care less about that, I never had a car when I was going to college, I just rode my bike there or took the bus every morning. And when university rolled around, I had friends who also attended that didn't have cars and I'd give them lifts every now and then, it's ridiculous if your government or education board consider that important. Are you sure they didn't just require a provisional license? The two are distinct in my country, for instance some places ask for a provisional license as a form of ID, and you don't need to go through driving lessons and so forth to get one. I got mine for the purpose of getting into clubs, because I was tired of getting ID'd and not having anything to show. Basically you pay around £30, fill out an application and send a passport sized photo along with it, as well as a different form of ID like a bank statement or something along those lines and then they send you a provisional license back, it's pretty simple.

Also the problematic home situation didn't do much good and not to blame anyone, but I lack a father figure to guide me through those parts of life. Don't compare me now to others who never had a dad either but did get a job early on in life. Not everyone is the same and each walks an unique path.


My father left when I was 3 and never contacted us again, and yes life can be tough without a father figure to guide you through the difficult times and teach you how to be a man and so forth, I grew up in a rough area and spent most of my early adolescence getting ten kinds of shít kicked out of me every time I walked down the street - to say I learned the hard way would be an understatement. Try running home from school in the afternoon when you're being chased by three lads holding baseball bats with nails in them, that certainly puts things into perspective. I had no male siblings either so no one to teach me how to defend myself or how to stand up to other boys, I was baptized by fire as the saying goes. Sometimes you learn from experience, but obviously not everyone does, perhaps if I hadn't been forced to step into the arena unarmed I might not have gained the advantages it left me with. No way of knowing, really. Ultimately though there's one thing I do know, and that's that no matter what happens, because we have choices in life, we can't offload all the blame onto everything and everyone else. To some extent we have to share the blame. Is there anything you feel you could've done differently, or done better?

No, I realize the negative sides of this life. I can't invite anyone to my room. Even though I don't have a couple dozen pictures of Dakota Fanning and co on my walls anymore, the room still doesn't look like the room of an average 33 year old male.
If in a magical world I could mesmerize a woman and make her my girlfriend, I would have to change a lot in my room and on my PC.

But thats assuming I'd take the girl to my place. Who says I have to? I could leave it at a date on neutral ground for the first time and then see if I can join her at her place if she ever wanted to do more than just drink in a bar or whatever.


Sure, although girls tend to be more impressed with men your age if they have places of their own and invite them over, it shows self-sufficiency and security, something women in your age group are very interested in - a lot more than appearance and such. Generally, women who are still single in their late twenties or thirties are much more open to settling down rather than just having flings with hot dudes which is what younger women are more into, so they'll be more intrigued by a bloke who has qualities that imply the possibility of a solid relationship. You already have a job, so that's one down, even if it's not a high paying one it's significantly better than being unemployed, now I would suggest getting yourself a one bedroom apartment.

The reason I have no contact with women isn't because I'd have to remove anything child related in my room. It's because I have an extreme low self esteem and I cannot imagine that any woman could be interested in me. And certainly not a woman with some class and decent looking. And because I have absolutely no faith in finding a partner, even for one night, I allowed myself to live this way in the privacy of my bedroom. A room where I can be totally me. I have to hide my feelings as soon as I leave the house, so let there be at least one room left for me to be myself. What else can I do? Remove all child related items, wipe my HDD clean, appear as a "non-pedo" and what for? It wouldn't get me a girlfriend. Just some bare walls.


Evidently your low self esteem was present even before your paedophilia, since we've established that it was likely the primary reason why you chose to pursue that attraction in the first place. In order to improve it, and it can be done since self esteem is just a state of mind (depression is trickier, but that's a separate matter), you have to find the root cause. Was it the bullying?

Lets call it stress then for the sake of the argument, but it doesn't make me a dangerous person. No matter how much stress, pain I may experience, I would never even think about doing something to the girl.


Stress can be so severe that it reduces inhibitions, you've presumably heard about the effects it can have on the human body even as far as manifesting itself physically in the form of panic attacks, rashes, numerous other symptoms and it even plays a part in major life threatening illnesses like heart disease and so on. Something as powerful as stress, if it can affect the body to that extent, it can undoubtedly affect the mind too, even if you feel certain it won't. Having said that, naturally that doesn't mean it's guaranteed to turn everyone under stress into rapists and child molesters, only that it's cause for concern and should be tackled.

An interesting view there on puppy love and how it may not have been "overwritten" completely as you put it.


I use the term because I genuinely believe that puppy love is most likely a blueprint for sexuality, which is then overwritten during adolescence and so never really surfaces again in most adults. If yours wasn't overwritten completely, for whatever reason, then it's possible that it explains why you're still able to feel it now and then. Doesn't mean you can't still connect romantic love and sex, so you shouldn't be too concerned about that.







Valar morghulis

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[deleted]

My self esteem issues go back to my childhood where I grew up with no father figure to be an example for me and of course when you are a kid who has no father in a school where you feel weak and scared for the unknown, other kids will pick on you. That happened a lot and even though I had a few friends, I remember the bullies better. That kept going until I was put in that institution for two months when I was 14 and then after that I had to attend this other place every day after school till 7pm and that lasted till I was 18. I didn't live a normal life during the most crucial years of development from child into adult.
I don't wanna push it all away and blame the situations, but they did contribute to what I became in the long run.

With no self esteem, I turned 21 one day and decided I was gonna have to do something to get laid and so I paid a prostitute. Fun experience, but that lasts only for a while and then you are in need of more. And not just sex, but LOVE. The years went by, I never dared or felt like going out and search for women because what was I gonna say? Apart from my stupid face, I can tell her Iiii..
-well I played 9000 hours in an online mmorpg!
-I even have obsidian armor!!
Erm, right. So when was your first time?
-Few years ago when I paid a hooker!
Cool.
And how many girlfriends you had since then, come ooon! Tell me!
-Zero.
Eh.. Are you gay?
-No. :s
Then you are fcked up! Nobody lives like that! Bye!
-But .. my mom wants to see you. Coincidental, she and I live under the same rooftop! :D
*SHE RUUUUUNS*

Lets face it, I'm not a guy any woman could be interested in.


Not if you're that uncomfortably honest, you said yourself once that pretty much every bloke uses some form of deception to attract women. In the early stages, we all have to present an image of ourselves that's more interesting or attractive than we really are, and then we gradually take off the mask the more time we spend with the girl and the more comfortable we become around her. And she probably does the same. The only difference in your case is that the mask will have to be bigger and better than most, and it'll have to stay on longer. You've been doing this all your life, so it's probably second nature by now, no? The benefits vastly outweigh the drawbacks since even if you're not being 100% you, you're still finding out what it's like to be with a woman you aren't paying. And even if you manage to get into a relationship and it fails, at least you'll have had a relationship, then all you do is learn from experience and let the chips fall where they may.

The discussion you're referring to isn't usually what people discuss on the first few dates anyway, at least not adults. But even if it did occur, you just say your first time was earlier than it was, and that you haven't had many girlfriends since you spent a lot of your life taking care of your family. Most women, due to the last part, will overlook the first part. Taking care of one's family implies security, safety, things women are seduced by. She'll appreciate that and probably ignore the fact that you're not that experienced, especially women in your age group. You said that you're not completely socially inept and can have a laugh with people, even girls, so it's not like you'll be standing there dumbstruck and making it awkward for the woman - you'll be able to at least converse with her and that's a lot better than some people who have crippling shyness and can barely look a woman in the eye, let alone speak to her. That gives you a leg up in the dating game.

As for your hobbies, you just tell her you like biking, you're a gamer, you enjoy films and music, these are all normal things. Women like discussing music and films, believe me I know, it really gets the conversation moving. At least with girls that aren't vapid tarts who only care about their next trip to the salon, but presumably you won't be aiming for that type anyway. One time I went to McDonalds with a girl after we'd just seen a movie at the cinema (yeah, I took a girl to McDonalds, that's how classy I am), and we just sat at a table and talked for hours, about everything from movies to deep philosophical concepts. If you know how to keep a conversation flowing you can make a girl never wanna leave.

I don't wanna go out, I only enjoy going to a concert and preferably sit down and not jumping around like a moron.


How many people in their late twenties and thirties do wanna go jumping around at concerts? Most have moved past that by your age group anyway. As for not wanting to go out, plenty of people are indoor types, myself included, I prefer a cozy night in with a good bluray any day over a noisy, sweaty clubbing session. I used to love that sort of thing, but I grew up and now I just feel too old for it, I prefer something more relaxing.

I don't drink alcohol and I dont smoke cigarettes. Two things that are binding people socially. It is!! At work almost everyone smokes and during breaks, they go have a smoke. I have to go with them and inhale their garbage or else i can just stay inside and sit all by myself like the one weirdo in the group. Anyway, the list goes on but I'll spare you some extra paragraphs.


 Did you just call yourself a weirdo for not destroying your lungs? As a fellow non-smoker, I can safely say that if almost everyone at your job smokes, I feel sorry for them. Every time I look at my grandmother, who suffers with emphysema from smoking, I'm reminded of how glad I am that I never started puffing cancer sticks. It's also repulsive to date a girl who smokes, it's like kissing an ashtray, even if she smokes menthols and chews gum it still doesn't get rid of the smell and taste entirely. As for alcohol, I only drink every couple of months these days and even then I don't get drunk, I just get merry. You can always try a few alcoholic beverages if you wanna fit in more, they all taste different depending on what you mix them with and you don't have to get wasted - very different from ciggies.

I have some experience myself, sitting in first row here with my mother being depressed. She has no energy left to live on, she only lives because she more or less has to, for her children. But I can tell she has no joy in life. No future perspective and no ambition to achieve anything at all. She used to take Bromazepam, a benzodiazepine perhaps better known as Lexotanil. She now takes a different pill, Tranxene. All this is first class garbage! Stuffing yourself full with pills and to what end? Last year, my mom was in a mental hospital for a month. She got a huge cocktail of pills, but she didn't improve at all. She stayed the same person. I assume her depression is caused by a physical abnormality in her brain and thus no pill will ever fix her.


Has she been given a brain scan? If you're right, it's possible they can treat the abnormality and attack the source of her depression. As for what the end game is for pills, they're not meant to be permanent, the idea is to give you a head start and then ween you off, clearly they haven't done that with your mum which suggests they probably do suspect the source of the depression is a neurological defect of sorts.

Thats a difficult question because I would have done things differently if I could go back knowing what I know now. For example, I wouldn't have accepted being sent to a school for kids with a learning problem. I would have insisted on going to a school where I could have used the full potential of my capacity and get a decent education. That would have led to more confidence, more pride, more job options and a better financial situation.
But thats "if I knew what I know now". Maybe thats not exactly how you meant the question.


What I meant was is there anything you feel you could've done, even knowing what you knew then, but you failed to do? Any regrets?

PS: similar things like what you described there happened to me. Two big teenagers around 16-17 years old pushing me around when I was 11. One even went sitting on me so I couldn't run away. Then when one of the dudes parents stopped by the field in their car to talk to their son, I saw a chance to get away and ran like mad. They sent my friend after me to get me back. That friend was my age and he was the reason I went to join him, but he had his two older friends there and that was yet another bad experience for me.


Yeah, it's extremely unpleasant, the problem for me was that where I lived it was a regular occurrence. My area was populated mostly by chavs older than myself and a few of my friends, so we'd get chased or attacked frequently. I was headbutted and robbed just going to the corner shop once for a bag of chips for my mother, I remember there was a gang of them waiting outside and on the way in they asked for change. I told them I didn't have any, so they stood glaring through the window at me as I was waiting in the queue, they watched me pay for the chips with a note and get change in return, and then assaulted me when I left and raided my pockets. "Ow, mate!" and suddenly your eyes are watering and you're seeing stars while being held down. Walked home with a bloody nose and wounded pride, but that's the sort of thing that went on.

I even remember the name of the gang leader, they called him Cheek, as a nickname. Intimidating prick, towered over me. I saw him years later as an adult, I was taller than him by then and he'd turned into a quivering, skinny little meth-head. Life clearly hadn't been kind to the bloke, and the resentment I harboured toward him, as well as the desire to get even, dissipated quickly. Even bullies are human beings, that guy could've been getting tortured at home for all I know, by the look of him he was already paying his price, so I walked on by.

I am looking for a full time job together with my coordinator and a social worker. But it's not easy. Stupid rules about salary scales screw me lately. In order to even apply for a job, you need to have worked in scale C or D and if you are working in E, you are not allowed to even try. What a load of crap. Look at people's abilities, peoples quality. Not what paper they have or what salary they had in their last job!


Age also plays a part unfortunately, most jobs look for people in their twenties or younger, once you're older than 30 it becomes even harder to find employment in my country. It's supposed to be a fair system, but it's still profoundly ageist and sexist, while amusingly trying to remain PC by offering minorities jobs regardless of their abilities versus non-whites. Still, we can probably expect more of this bollocks now that the Conservatives have retained their power in the recent election.

Speaking about the job. I am NOT a "lollipop man". I remember you laughed at me calling me a lollipop man and explaining to someone non-British what that was because you heard I "help kids cross the street". Most of the time it's not lil kids but teenagers and I hold up traffic in one of the bussiest streets of the center of our town during rush hour. Theres 2000 students going to that school. I don't find this a laughing matter, I think it's contributing to society and if I can help a steady flow in traffic and prevent someone from being run over by a bus, I'm happy. And just know that the "lollipop" task is only one small aspect of my job taking about 30 minutes of my 8 hour work day.


To be fair, you're a lollipop man even if you're helping adults across the road, generally the lollipop just refers to the stop sign you hold which resembles a lollipop. That's assuming you have one, in my country they all do, if you don't then I suspect you wouldn't be a lollipop man. I threw the kids remark in there because you're a paedophile, so I suspected that this was why you'd taken the job. As for why I laughed, it wasn't because I wanted to belittle the job itself since at least you're taking whatever you can get, and I agree that it constitutes a service to society, it was the image of you waddling about in a luminous jacket holding a stop sign. I can't help it, it just amused me, you have to admit the outfit (while purposeful of course) is silly looking. I'm not gonna pretend the visual didn't give me a chuckle.

What's the rest of the 8 hour work day dedicated to?

Maybe I can connect love and sex if I ever met someone who loved me and wanted to have sex. But so far I didn't and I can't imagine what it is like. To me sex is .. watching pornhub and masturbating to get that orgasm and done. Love to me is staring at a photo and being stunned by someones beauty, thinking about being with her, hold her in my arms and hug and just be together.


Haven't you ever watched a slow, romantic love scene before? Surely you must have, generally those are the difference between loving sex and the sex you see in porn movies where the dude is just violating her cervix. I could connect sex and love even before I'd had sex with a woman I loved, just from seeing romantic stuff on TV. I recommend watching some amateur movies maybe, like homemade sex between couples, that's the only straight porn I ever truly liked anyway. Except Sasha Grey, something about her enthusiasm was pretty hot.

When I hear people say "making love", I find that weird. They say making love isn't the same as ramming doggy style like porn stars. I wouldn't know. And so I'll always associate sex, or rather.. my impression of sex, with something naughty, something dirty even. How much this has to do with the stuff I was told when I was younger about sex and how men are perverts, especially my biological father, I don't know. But it can't have done much good either I'm afraid.


Yeah, if your mother told you this about your father and was somewhat sexually repressed, I gather it would have an effect on the way you yourself perceive it. It can be undone though, sex is a perfectly natural, healthy expression of emotion, physical sensation and enjoyment. You don't even need to have it to know this, just observe.






Valar morghulis

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This is all ridiculous and I cannot believe you have the nerve to come here and post things like this. To act like your "love" is not harmful. There is no such thing as a pedophile who would not offend given the chance. Let me tell you my story:

I was molested/raped by a neighbor beginning when I was 4 and ending at 6. I didn't enjoy it and I felt ashamed and sick for any pleasure my body forced me to have. After this, I became overly sexualised and would allow boys to kiss me and play "doctor" with me and yet after each encounter I still felt sick. I stopped letting people touch me even for hugs when I was 10. This is where the part pertaining to your claims that you would never harm a child and most pedophiles are innocent come in.

I was allowed to use AOL when I was 12 with no supervision. When I would enter a chatroom and put in my age and gender, I would soon be sent instant messages by the dozen with men wanting to be my "friend". I believed them and yet after weeks they would begin to slip hints of wanting something more into the conversation. Asking innocently for my picture and then wondering if I had anything with me in a dress or bathing suit. ALWAYS leading to them asking me sexual things and getting on web cam to show me what they wanted to give to me and wanting to meet me. I never felt pleasure from any of it and was disgusted by the men yet I, being physically abused at home and unloved, let them talk to me because I wanted attention. Never in the following years of speaking to men on sites and chat rooms did any of them not turn the conversation into something I was not comfortable with. Into admitting fantasies of their daughters/nieces/neighbors and even now at 28 I feel sick thinking of all the children that I probably could have saved if I had spoken to someone and showed them the confessions.

I purposely take pills to lower my sex drive to practically nothing. I feel physically ill if I get urges. I still allow no one to touch me. I refuse to have children in case I ever continue the pattern despite never being attracted to them. I'm ruined, I can't hold a job because of my anxieties. Your kind do not deserve pity. Even reading through the posts and seeing your obvious lies where you claim one thing and are shown to have said something different in the past show I am right. A child cannot consent. Ever. Stop making excuses, stop trying to get people to let your near their children so you can prove people like me wrong, just stop it. The best thing you can do is stay away from temptation by avoiding situations where you are alone with children.

I dont know how these boards work or if my post will be allowed but I hope you see this and realise the harm that you have the potential to cause. Don't allow yourself to indulge even for one second and then find yourself unable to stop and just going further. Even online grooming can be harmful, mentally, to a child.

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They haven't paid for their crimes. There is no prison sentence long enough that would equal the damage these animals do to children. Sorry, there just isn't.

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I'm going to read this thread properly one day. I want to know why people become pedofiles

You can call me biased because I am not yet ready to read on this upsetting topic. But I think that if an adult wants to be around preteens, even if it is not sexual, there is something wrong in his mental makeup, and he could swing to the dangerous side. Maybe not, by i would list him as someone to be watched very carefully

I don't agree with the OP "We must recognise it, understand it and ultimately control it" This is giving too much importance to a disease which can be cured by strict laws instead.

Darkness lies an inch ahead

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Rather than addressing the appropriately strict laws against paedophilia, I was addressing the vicious and utterly counterproductive stigma attached to paedophilia. Extending one's sympathies and understanding to unapologetic sex offenders is difficult and perhaps futile, but those who haven't offended, such as Eddie in the The Paedophile Next Door, shouldn't face ignorant mob violence.

http://www.hawkensian.com/

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Good point. Why do many people want to tear alleged paedophiles apart with their bare hands, yet happily accept and even promote other forms of sexual deviancy?

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[deleted]

I have to disagree here. I have no problem with homosexuality since you brought it up because it's a choice of what gender you are attracted to but this applies to two people that are already aware of their sexual preference and are voluntarily engaging in that behavior. You cannot place pedophilia in the same category because we have older individuals that are taking advantage of younger ones that do not have the life experience and awareness that the older person has and just by that definition it is not the same as homosexuality. I understand that it is a disease just in the same way that drug abuse and alcoholism might be but to call it a lifestyle choice that just hasn't been accepted yet is going too far.

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I was saying that paedophilia is an unavoidable sexual preference like homosexuality is, not a lifestyle choice (which I don't believe homosexuality to be). Some may find it contentious to compare paedophilia with other sexual preferences, but paedophilia is just that, a sexual preference, albeit a deeply immoral one. Of course, that is where the similarities end for very obvious reasons; namely, as you said, consent.

The core point of the article is that these people have problems and should be treated, not persecuted.

http://www.hawkensian.com/

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You're right......we should all smother the pedophiles with hugs and kisses (as our anti-hero expects his poor sis Annette to do, which she thankfully DOESN'T.

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Please tell me you’re being sarcastic.

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Yes, I am sarcastic. :-) See ya (but wouldnt wanna be u)

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I'm not particularly interested in understanding the inner conflict of pedophiles - although I suspect there's a rather personal reason why you would make such a post in argument for 'understanding'.

If, as you suggest, their predilections are determined by genetics, so be it - then as the recidivist statistics prove, there is no treatment.

Whether or not their preferences are dictated by choice or nature, however, pedophiles destroy lives & families.

That's a FACT - not the bullshit you're peddling.

As such, pedophiles should be considered predators, an invasive species, a threat to public health, and removed from society permanently.

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There's a difference between a pedophile and a child molester.

In fact, it's EXACTLY the difference between a normal heterosexual person and a rapist. Just because you're attracted to a certain group doesn't make you willing to rape them.

Personally, it's hard to think of a more pitiable figure than a non-offending pedophile. Imagine what's it's like to walk through life as that guy. Sublimating every *natural* urge, lonely, frustrated, not able to share your life with who you want, not even able to unburden your soul to anyone, knowing that if your abhorrent interests got out, you could very well be killed.

I have nothing but sympathy for a non-offending pedo. Child molesters on the other hand, you can dose those fuckers with gas and light a match.

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