1911 man, it seems


That was his pistol of choice, no?

http://DanteDreams.com/ <-My webcomic
"Jesus saves, everyone else takes damage" -Tshirt

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Yep, some sort of 1911. Don't know what make, but they're mostly very similar.

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The 1911A1 in the form of Colt or Kimber (or the various other manufacters) are the popular choice for special operation forces. The Army's Special Operation Detachment Delta (Delta Force) has been using "accurized" 1911s since the unit's creation in the late 1970's. The Marine Corps FAST (Fleet Antiterrorist Security Teams) and MEU-SOC (Marine Expeditionary Unit - Special Operation Capable) units have adapted the 1911 since the 1980's even though both services officially adapted the M9 Beretta in 1985. The Beretta is a fine weapon but the 9mm round in FMJ (Full Metal Jacket) is a poor man stopper compared to the M1911's .45ACP round.
The Beretta has been in service for 20 years now and there are some problems with frame cracks (though some of these came from using non authorized high pressure submachine gun ammo) and, more importantly, poorly made magazines, made by low bid government contractors, that has caused many failures to feed in the weapon. (Always buy factory magazines!)
The Navy's SEALs (Sea Air And Land) operators have switched to the Sig Sauer P226 as their official sidearm, if they carry hollowpoints instead of FMJ I do not know, but I would not be surprised if they did, even though it is against the Geneva Convention.

Dave

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I believe the US authorises certain special forces to use HP ammo in direct contravention of the Hague convention whenever it feels necessary. Not that it matters much, the NATO 5.56mm round contravenes the spirit of the Hague convention while po-facedly sticking to the letter. Very few countries actually observe the spirit and letter of international law. Switzerland is the only one I can think of off-hand.

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Thanks for the info guys!

always glad to hear more about my favorite pistol!

http://DanteDreams.com/ <-My webcomic
"Jesus saves, everyone else takes damage" -Tshirt

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You seem like a big 1911 fan so I would like to ask you a question about cleaning. Do you find that it takes you longer to clean a 1911 than more modern designs like a Beretta 92 or a Glock(of any caliber)? I shoot my Dad's Series 80 Mark IV Gold Cup about once a year and always regret it because despite the fun while shooting I find that I have to clean it 2 or 3 times to actually get it clean. With the more modern designs I accomplish a quick one time cleaning in a few minutes with no problems. The problem that I have seems to relate to fouling in the the slide that is inside of the assembly that you do not go into with simple field stripping. After I reassemble the weapon, dark cleaning solvent seems to drip out of the slide and muck up the slide rail and tilt lever areas of the weapon. If I'm just using too much or too little solvent I'd like some tips.

Thanks,

-J

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1911 is teh only pistol I have cleaned so I couldn't tell you. Sorry.

http://DanteDreams.com/ <-My webcomic
"Jesus saves, everyone else takes damage" -Tshirt

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Just in the off-chance that someone stumbles upon this thread that I am resurrecting, a poster above mentioned something about the 5.56 round "violating" the spirit of the Hague Convention while adhering to its letter...

Could anyone clarify that? Isn't the 5.56 used in FMJ by all armies?

It's me, Gloria, I left my driver's licence on the table, next to the fruit!

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5.56 in military usage IS FMJ, HOWEVER the round itself tends to tumble a lot inside a human body, causing a massive wound channel out of proportion with the (small) size of the bullet itself. That is why the Soviets switched to 5.45mm after testing captured 'Nam era M-16's.

"The spirit is willing, but the flesh is spongy and bruised."

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I did not know that (and was obviously too lazy at the time to STFW...)

Thank you, spittle!

It's me, Gloria, I left my driver's licence on the table, next to the fruit!

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Actually, when the US military first adopted the AR15 as the M16, the barrel had a 1:14 twist rate and it was discovered that the 55 grain projectiles it fired were just barely being stabilized by such a slow rifling twist. This caused the bullets to tumble and yaw when they came into contact with just about anything, as well as hampering the potential accuracy of the weapon. They switched to a 1:12 twist to correct these problems, as it was found that this left the rounds stable enough for accurate flight. It was also noted that the destabilization (including yawing and fragmenting) upon impact led to increased tissue damage. However, this was not purposely designed into these early variants of the M16 and was discovered purely by accident. After seeing our success with a small-caliber high-velocity round, the Soviets wished to adopt one as well. (This was opposed by Mikhail Kalashnikov, designer of the AK-47, but that's another story). Anyway, they studied lots of data on 5.56mm military cartridges and decided to make a longer bullet that would purposely yaw and tumble inside a human body. They designed their 5.45mm projectile with a hollow cavity in the nose to shift its center of gravity to the rear to facilitate this. They also gave it a small steel insert to allow it to reliably penetrate NATO flack jackets. On the outside, it looked like any other military FMJ bullet. The US later got away from the lightweight 55gr bullets of the Vietnam era in favor of a heavier Belgian designed 62gr bullet called the SS109. It also uses a steel penetrator, but is not designed to destabilize upon impact. It is used in the modern M855 NATO cartridges for use in M16A2 and later variants featuring 1:7 twist barrels.

To get back on topic...
Kilmer's 1911A1 is a full size and seems to be sporting Pachmayr grips and a Novak-type rear sight. He also retrieves a Walther PPK from the container. His "go bag" contains an HK MP5K.
Macy's character also has a 1911.
The Australian guy is packing a Sig P226.

I'd also like to point out that there are several "crosshair inconsistencies" in this movie:
1. The sniper on the boat is using a Remington 700 rifle equipped with what appears to be a Leupold tactical scope, yet the reticle shown in first person is that of a Dragunov SVD. (It is possible he is using this by preference as a custom reticle, but unlikely).
2. The PVS-14 monocular they use on the beach has a mil-dot crosshair reticle in first person, which would also be incorrect.
3. The most obvious inconsistency has to be the MP5 used on the beach scene, which is clearly equipped with an Aimpoint optic, but displays the magnified reticle view of a Trijicon ACOG TA01.

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I believe the reason he uses the 1911 is because Eric Haney the technical adviser was Delta from the late 70s into the 80s and therefore has a personal preference for the weapon.

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A lot of elite military units and spec-ops personnel like using the 1911. Almost any variant is a naildriver with a very large caliber round. It can be highly modified, many are slim in design and easily concealed and they are very simple to operate. There are drawbacks, of course. Most only have a capacity of 8 rounds (though this can be extended with longer mags, and grip mods) most are a bit heavy and they do require regular maintenance and don't respond incredibly well to water. It's a preference. Some Green Berets still use modified M-14s. All weapons have their particular advantages.

"All I need to find you Louis is to follow the corpses of rats?"

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[deleted]

Yes, I think this is one of the best 1911 movies after We Were Soldiers (2002).

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Delta Force isn't the only military unit famous for using 1911s. USMC MEU's, Recon, and Force Recon are also well known for their usage of 1911s. Val Kilmer's background (USMC Force Recon) and his age (it is implied he operated as far back as the Cold War) makes it very likely that the 1911 is the handgun with which he is most proficient with.

Considering Haney's attention to detail, he most likely considered this for the character.

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To a poster above. SEALs can basically carry whatever they want or whatever the mission calls for. Their gear is completely at their discretion. That said the SEALs have official adopted the 9mm SIG P228, but also the Mk23 SOCOM in .45ACP made by HK specifically for the SEALs. The civilian version is the USP.

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