MovieChat Forums > Tasogare Seibei (2002) Discussion > Some commentary from the Japan Society's...

Some commentary from the Japan Society's Film Center

posted 20 years ago by SurrenderToto
21 replies | jump to latest

After the screening of this wonderfully humane and realistic samurai film, a representative from the Japan Society's Film Center in New York spoke to us at length about the director, Yoji Yamada, and the content of the film. This was the 73-year-old director's 77th film. He has made many samurai-themed movies. Yamada's intent in all his films has been to show the everyday social life of people, as well as the political environment in which they exist. Samurai fights in reality typically lasted 2-3 hours, in which each combatant would cut the other until at last one died from loss of blood. The two fights in the movie, and in particular the second, I think give a good suggestion of this. It is also important to note the historical time period of this film, about 1850. Talk about activity in Kyoto and Edo in the film was related to the coming to the end of the samurai period, in conjunction with the opening of Japan to the West by the United States.

It is also very interesting to compare this film with the recent "The Last Samurai," which takes place about 15-20 years later. In particular, the female lead in "Last Samurai" is much more "Japanese" than the lead in this film, Miss Tomoe, who is seen to represent a new, less docile Japanese woman.

Our speaker also pointed out that the costumes were by Kazuko Kurosawa, the daughter of Akira Kurosawa, the great Japanese director.

For those who have not seen this film, it is a visual and aural work of art by a master himself.

"Gentles, perchance you wonder at this show;
But wonder on, till truth make all things plain."
-- A Midsummer Night's Dream

[–] JFDAddison5458 20 years ago

Do you think the difference in the female leads is attributable to how they lost their husband(one to battle and one through divorce)

[–] SurrenderToto 20 years ago

Not at all. The representative from the Japan Society said that the director was trying to show a changing Japan. I would agree with this. Advancing his ideas superceded history and culture. He used the bold, aggressive character of the woman as an agent of change. I also found the daughters "cuteness" and bold ways to be for the same purpose. However, from many decades of observance of Japanese society, and Japanese movies and television, the behaviour of the lead character in "Twilight Samurai" would be considered rude in most respects, even today in Japan. This is what makes it so disconcerting to me. Did she have to be so "un-Japanese" to make the director's point?

[–] 20 years ago

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[–] mac_alain 19 years ago

However, from many decades of observance of Japanese society, and Japanese movies and television, the behaviour of the lead character in "Twilight Samurai" would be considered rude in most respects, even today in Japan. This is what makes it so disconcerting to me. Did she have to be so "un-Japanese" to make the director's point?

I must say that I too had a problem with that particular aspect.

I also could not buy into Seibei *never* shaving (part of his) head and *always* looking so unkempt. Surely, as a Samurai, being a proud person, he would at some stage have taken *a little* more care of his appearance, especially when say Tomoe began to spend a lot of time in his house.

[–] 19 years ago

[deleted]

[–] mouldyboats 19 years ago

Remember folks this is a STORY,... in a story we need characters with CHARACTER
not every one can look as though things were perfect and ideal. THere would be no story and no need to bring characters to light.

I am sure the director/writer developed this character in this cathartic period of time in Japan for a reason. Seibei let himself go in an undefined period, he had no business suit to jump into and we dont see the unemployed salaryman of Today's Japan jumping into Samurai dress nowadays do we???

Nancy-Olli said:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"However, from many decades of observance of Japanese society, and Japanese movies and television, the behaviour of the lead character in "Twilight Samurai" would be considered rude in most respects, even today in Japan. This is what makes it so disconcerting to me. Did she have to be so "un-Japanese" to make the director's point?"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1018/p07s01-woap.html

People go mad in all cultures. see how rude this guy is? My he is in Tokyo today and so unkempt! You cannot understand a culture by watching TV and movies! Even history and tradition really gets the whitewashing.
this thread is a waste.

-mouldyboats

[–] mac_alain 19 years ago

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1018/p07s01-woap.html
People go mad in all cultures. see how rude this guy is? My he is in Tokyo today and so unkempt!

This guy obviously has not got a job, he is at the very bottom of the ladder, and his appearance is thus understandable. The Twilight Samurai, on the other hand, had a job, if of of sorts.

[–] CamelCamelCamel 19 years ago

*SPOILERS*

Seibei vowed after his humiliation to be more mindful of his hygiene, which I think he adhered to as there were no more complaints. But the scene in which he prepares in formal dress for his duel (and has to have Tomoe comb his hair) suggests that other, more well-groomed samurai might depend on another to help them dress. Seibei simply didn't have this help, nor the time to focus much effort on it himself, and his appearance suffered for it. That's how I inferred it, anyway.

Now if you should want to call me, use this number. This other one is the old number.

[–] mac_alain 19 years ago

Hmmm... Interesting point, TheFrankEinstein.

[–] Omegamagezero-1 18 years ago

Not at all. The representative from the Japan Society said that the director was trying to show a changing Japan. I would agree with this. Advancing his ideas superceded history and culture. He used the bold, aggressive character of the woman as an agent of change. I also found the daughters "cuteness" and bold ways to be for the same purpose. However, from many decades of observance of Japanese society, and Japanese movies and television, the behaviour of the lead character in "Twilight Samurai" would be considered rude in most respects, even today in Japan. This is what makes it so disconcerting to me. Did she have to be so "un-Japanese" to make the director's point?

Maybe the director was suggesting that it's time for Japanese to relax a little by showing non-traditional characters in a traditional setting. Don't they have the highest suicide rate on Earth?

[–] maki124 18 years ago

Suicide rate: does Japan have the highest in the world?
Not according to this page:

http://www.aneki.com/suicide.html

Interestingly the top 10 are all in Europe..

[–] joannethrax 18 years ago

Well, it's less that they're all in Europe (Kazakhstan, for example, is distinctly in Central Asia) but that 7 of the 10 are former Soviet republics. Of the other three, Hungary and Slovenia were part of the Eastern Bloc and Finland had some mysterious, incestuous relationship with the Soviet Union.

[–] Omegamagezero-1 18 years ago

Well, Kazakhstan isn't technically in Europe. But they're all former Warsaw Pact or Soviet Republics.

I apologize if my assumption was without justification. I just remember hearing so much about students commiting suicide if they failed a test. And how suicide rates soared when the recession hit.

EDIT:Though Japan's suicide rate is over twice as high as the U.S. Three times as high as the U.K.

[–] johnericbackstrom 18 years ago

The best part for me that symbolized the changing JApan was the part when the eldest daughter is reading Sun Tzu(?) and Sebei is talking about how important knowledge is even for girls. That it makes them more independent and better maekrs of their own decsicions. Early samurai feminism?

[–] Entropy_uk 18 years ago

She was reading Confucius, but I thought that was very symbolic of a changing Japan. The other stark symbol of this, for me anyway, were the rifles (or muskets) firing. It is interesting that these two things contrast so sharply with each other and it is clear which of these persuits will be the most rewarding.

[–] SandsofSamarkand 18 years ago

I'd be wary of that website. I just checked it out and they say the US is a more expensive place to live than the UK. Which can't possibly be true - and according to another website is not: http://www.internationalliving.com/qol06. Then again I'm not finding their list that convincing either. France more expensive than the UK?

Not that I would be surprised if former soviet block countries have high suicide rates. The architecture alone would do me in.

[–] whitegreg7 18 years ago

I think the difference in the female leads can be attributable to Western film makers having a stereotypical mental image of what a feudal Japanese woman would behave like and are probably a little less able to tweak the character for fear of creating something that would be totally out of place in the historical context of the film.

You know...like casting Tom Cruise as a samurai?

=P

[–] SurrenderToto 18 years ago

whitegreg - I've seen a fair share of Japanese films and some Japanese television drama, and I have known and worked with Japanese people in my life. The lead female character of this film is definitely of a different stripe and character from all I've seen and know about Japan. I think it was the director of this film who wanted to not just tweak, but break the mold (not a stereotype), in order to make for an unusual character, and to serve the story.

As for Tom Cruise's role in "The Last Samurai," he was playing a Westerner who absorbed and adopted the Japanese/samurai ways. He wasn't playing a native born, ethnic Japanese man. Compare that to the characters in "The Twilight Samurai" who were through and through Japanese, no translation from one culture to the other. Not incidently, I thought Tom Cruise was magnificent in this role.

[–] whitegreg7 18 years ago

that's what I'm saying though. As a native of the country, he is aware that the stertype IS a stereotype and can be played with, which is an approach I think a director from the west would have difficulty doing having limited knowledge of the culture and historical reference points. I'm not really disagreeing with you at all on that.

Obviously I am aware of the fact that Tom Cruise was not playing a native born samurai. While your opinion is certainly valid regarding Tom Cruise's performance in The Last Samurai, I choose to think he was pretty darn awful. This is however only my opinion.

[–] SurrenderToto 18 years ago

whitegreg - I shrink a bit, still, at your use of the word 'stereotype.' Japanese cultural norms for the roles of men and women are pretty well known. Yet again, the director's perogative.

As for "The Last Samurai," films of that size and budget and international ambition have authoritative advisors, making them not too far off the mark in terms of authenticity. Somehow the film didn't appeal to you on some level(s). However I felt it achieved a satisfying blend of Western and Eastern values and customs. I believe, also, that the film was pretty well received in Japan.

[–] zurichpoet 12 years ago

Some quality info. Thanks.