The Ash-Eating Scene - Tasogare Seibei (2002) Discussion

[–] WRHorton2 16 years ago

I've never heard of any acceptable analog to this sort of behavior in Japanese culture. Hence it should be just as weird for the hero in the scene to witness as it would be to typical audience members.

I suspect there is a philosophical reason for this scene - perhaps, given that ashes are 'valueless' and represent life's transience, the old samurai ingests the ashes as a symbolic representation of the nullity inherent in human life (not to imply that he does so self-consciously; it could simply be a literary device intended to convey the meaning). If I recall, throughout the movie you hear some Buddhist recitations that echo this concept.

The latter comments are hypothetical, of course. It'd be interesting to hear from the director what this scene was intended to convey.

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[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] tjd-1 16 years ago

I see it as hi accepting his fate, his life is over and now he's taking into himself his passed on Daughter, Like he's accepting his fate, I think he knew he was going to die because he had nothing else to live for, The clan was all he had left and now that was gone. I disagree with others who say that he let Seibei win, Some people are reading a little too far into it, the Man was drunk, couldn't hold his liquor. He knew his life was over and was basically delving into depression, and yeah, he's probably gone somewhat crazy, He believed his life was over but he couldn't commit suicide, it'd be giving the enemy what they wanted, IF he let Seibei win, i know this is already somewhat off topic, he let seibei win by getting drunk.

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[–] bogwart-1 16 years ago

If Seibei had been intending to fight him with a katana he would have had no problem in sitting back, consuming the only thing that remained dear to him and dying. The fact that Seibei was intending to kill him with a kodachi or wakizashi he found insulting and intolerable, hence the fight.

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[–] daweism 15 years ago

He was hungry.

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[–] tedstyle 14 years ago

everyone else is super insightful, but this made me laugh

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[–] jasonbourneagain 14 years ago

the viewer and seibei may have started to feel some empathy for yago because seibe's life was like that of yago, and this would counteract that. once we saw what he was eating, then we would know he had gone mad and to be ready for anything.

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[–] tadamoriyagi 12 years ago

yeah. the dude was crazy. it is foreshadowed in the scriptures the daughter says leaving the house not to trust smiling men who talk craftily and the clan police who tell Seibei that he's gone wild.

I liked how the filmmakers made Yago's social background mirror Seibei's with the poor prospects and ailing daughter story. It's a false set-up that tricks the audience and Seibei into sympathy and complacency. It also shows how the Samurai got screwed. However, the difference is that Seibei's character is fundamentally different from Yago's. Seibei and Yago are both outcasts, but Seibei is humble where Yago is vain and beligerent. And Seibei would never eat his daughters' ashes because he respects his daughters - and women - as individuals rather than extensions of himself. Very good writing and character development. So genius.

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[–] tl2055 14 years ago

Not just his relative's ashes....Those were his Daughter's ashes....ew

Official Bleeder

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[–] Hypatia42 13 years ago

When this scene started I was so shocked I had to stop the movie for a moment.

I was hoping for a full cultural explanation to justify this scene. It is intriguing that another poster has stated there are no cultural corollaries to explain this event. Given that piece of information, it seems reasonable to look at it on a symbolic level; Yogo was trying to take into himself, to retain, the memory of his departed daughter. By ingesting her ashes he was making them a part of himself.

Regardless of whether he was planning on fleeing or dying in the house, he would be unable to take his shrine or the remnants of his daughter. Her honorable funeral was tinged with the memory of the leaders' demands he commit hari kari for obeying the man who had mercy on her. With the prospect of losing this last remnant of everything he loved, Yogo was reduced to trying to bond with the ashes. It internalized his suffering again and, for the viewers, I think, reinforces the seriousness of samurai suffering. Both these men, and by extension, most of the samurai in the land, lived with guilt and a void left by the loss of loved ones who could not survive the harshness imposed by the almost whimsical transfer of power.

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[–] Kawada_Kira 11 years ago

A lot of great, insightful posts on this thread. Kudos.

"The comfort of the rich depends upon an abundant supply of the poor."
- Voltaire

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