MovieChat Forums > Tasogare Seibei (2002) Discussion > Twilight Samurai Symbolism and Trivia

Twilight Samurai Symbolism and Trivia


Twilight Symbolism and trivia


Since there's a paucity of posts on this fine film I thought I'd contribute. Here are some things I've noticed in the film please feel free to add any more you can think of or discuss any of the ones below.


*Spoilers*


-Ito (the youngest daughter) carries Seibei's weapon to its stand near the beginning of the movie. This may have been done to foreshadow the weapon's innocuous characteristic. Ito, together with the katana, creating an image of the weapon as a "toy".

-Seibei is shown to be someone who loves to work with his hands. He makes dolls for Tomoe, builds insect cages for piece work, enjoys farming, is a skilled swordsman.

-As Seibei solemnly watches the riflemen practice he is actually
witnessing his own future death.

-Just before the scene where the viewer sees Tomoe for the first time, Seibei mentions "the azaleas are out", as he is walking home, using the beautiful blossoms to foreshadow the uplifting turn of events of Tomoe's homecoming

-Ito narrates that "It was almost as if the house was brighter as
soon as Tomoe came into their lives" In the scene you see a strong, warm,
setting sunlight shining through the door on to the entire family
thus literally and visually reinforcing that metaphor. Then
immediately shows a lantern flickering as a segue into the next
scene. And then a third time to segue into Seibei and Tomoe
walking home the scene starts by showing the moon (also source of
light). Thus equating the Tomoe = light = happiness imagery.

-As Tomoe and Seibei are walking home at night you can see Tomoe
holding dolls like the ones he used to give her as kids

-In the previous introductory scene at Seibei's house, when asked "Do you know
who this is?" the senile grandmother correctly identifies Tomoe but then doesn't give the correct response to Seibei when asked the same question. That is dualism symbolism but it's rather camouflaged by the humorous nature of the responses. The right or correct answer symbolizes goodness/happiness/etc. and both the correct answer and these traits are setup to match with Tomoe. The incorrect answer symbolizes Seibei's bad situation he's scorned, broke, pitied, literally falling apart at the seams, which is why the grandmother gives him an incorrect response. The grandmother, within the movie, seems pretty much crazy but outside the context of the film she's actually quite wise.

-The fishing scene, where Iinuma and Seibei discuss marriage, is apropos
for the topic they are discussing. You can tell by the manner Iinuma talks that he is trying to bait Seibei in getting him to marry Tomoe but does so unsuccessfully. This failure is mirrored by his inability to catch a real fish in the same scene. Fish (e.g. a good catch) is a also a term for getting a good girl. This may be a western term however and not intended by the script.

-Right after Iinuma and Seibei discuss possible marriage, concerning
Tomoe, and Seibei refuses, two corpses of girls are fished out of the river. This foreshadows the consequence for Ito and Kayano should Seibei refuse marrying Tomoe. Without Tomoe the children would be left
parentless as Seibei dies in the revolution and likely would starve in those hard times.

- When the Commissioner announces the Lord's death. He goes on to
mention characteristics of the Lord. "He was a fine gentle,
intelligent man, a true hero..." The movie script is in fact talking
about Seibei, camouflaged as a statement of respect for the deceased Lord. This is made evident as the Commissioner
calls out "Iguchi!" in the scene to direct the viewer's attention back on to Seibei.

-Seibei is seen chopping down a tree in a scene shortly after the
announcement of the death of the Lord, symbolizing the
empire falling to pieces.

-As you see Seibei practice his katas at night for the next day's duel with Zenemon that is really the only time that you see the Twilight Samurai embodied. Quite literally illustrating a Samurai by Twilight.

-Continuing the Tomoe is light theme, while Tomoe represents light and happiness, Seibei represents darkness, or rather twilight, characterized by struggle mingled with sadness due to his situation. So the two characters complement each other and can be seen as complete when put together. It suggests a cycle, as day is to night and happiness is to sadness. And just as with sunrise and sunset, the time at which darkness and light meet, their time together was short.

-The morning of the big duel as his children leave for school, Seibei makes it a point to catch a glimpse of his children departing. Much to his character, he does so in an unobtrusive manner. I gather his children didn't even notice. This small detail adds depth to the character in a subtle and refined manner.

-A nice role reversal at the end when Tomoe comes to help Seibei get dressed. Normally it's Seibei to the rescue of Tomoe but this time it's the other way around.

-When Naota goes to fetch Tomoe the director chose a low camera angle with some distance from the actors to film the two talking together. I think this was to reinforce the feeling of smallness or insecurity for viewers that Naota felt at that time. He was nervous and clutched his chest afterwards.

-right before Iguchi brings up the topic of marriage with Tomoe near the end the director flashes an image of a bunch of chickens pecking on the ground. Is this to symbolize Iguchi's nervousness in asking Tomoe? The english phrase "chicken" certainly refers to issues of courage, which Iguchi is plainly struggling with at that moment.

-the senile grandmother has another hidden wise moment when she asks Tomoe "Who are you?" right after when Seibei leaves for battle. Taken in one context it seems like senility but in another context it can be viewed as a profound soul searching question. It's possibly this inquiry that clinches or changes the mind of Tomoe to commit to Seibei. When she was speaking to him herself, she didn't seem to be leaning towards staying with Seibei, as she said so herself. But the question triggers a heartfelt moment within her and in the end she stays with him. This one was sort of well hidden too because the director establishes her "senility" in the previous grandmother scene, so if you're not aware that there's hidden meaning, it just seems like a continuation of that.

-took me a couple of viewings to wonder if some of the flies inside Zenemon's house are CGI.

-the flies and the subsequent buzzing sounds as he enters the house may serve to symbolize Seibei's conscience and misgivings that are "bugging" him concerning the gruesome task at hand. As he enters the house, you notice a few lingering flies bothering him and he needs to swat them away in an effort to clear his nagging "conscience". He does it once more while sitting to talk with Zenemon. After each instance he indeed seems to push on to his mission.

-Zenemon and Seibei unwittingly play an interesting back and forth game of
cat and mouse during their duel. Normally in a final fight scene you see the two gladiators go full out like a couple of rams. But this showdown has both participants take turns showing a reluctance to fight! At first Seibei demands Zenemon to draw his sword, so that he can carry out his orders, but Zenemon refuses. Later the enraged Zenemon demands that Seibei draw his sword but then Seibei is the one to refuse.

-As Zenemon Yogo dies at the end it symbolizes the death of the
Samurai way. Zenemon is the epitome Samurai or he was at one
point in his life. As he dies he says it is dark, I can no longer
see. He is speaking of "Twilight" which means the end is near.
Hence the title Twilight Samurai.

- So the term "Twilight Samurai" has several meanings in the film. It's both the name and description of the protaganist and a commentary on the status of the Samurai in that period of Japan.

-The director had an interesting method to visualize the ending Samurai era. Zenemon, the symbol of the samurai way, is never shown with his face fully lit the entire movie. In every scene that he appears, his face is always shadowed.

reply

Nice ones.

I loved that movie. It was so subtle, featuring characters that will last even if I saw it only once.

reply

Great comments. Arigatoo!

reply

I just watched the movie, and found it every bit as beautiful and moving as everyone here has said.

Great observations on the symbolism, really nice work.

reply

superb observartions. your post has increased my impression of the film.

Rather than this:
-A nice role reversal at the end when Tomoe comes to help Seibei get dressed. Normally it's Seibei to the rescue of Tomoe but this time it's the other way around.
I think Seibei calls Tomoe to talk about his marriage proposal rather than getting dress up. After Tomoe says she has already accepted another proposal, Seibei becomes unhappy to call her.

reply

You're certainly correct in noting Seibei had an ulterior motive in calling Tomoe over. I just thought it a nice balancing act to have Tomoe return a necessary favor back to Seibei to harmonize the relationship and revisit the nice feelings of when she used come around the house to help. It's usually Seibei to the rescue, saving her (and her brother) from her abusive ex-husband. Also the time when they were kids and Seibei helped her when she fell out of the tree.

reply

Nah, I believe the real motive in calling Tomoe was to propose marriage.

reply

Yeah, I guess the original reason for him asking Tomoe over at the end is open to interpretation. Personally, I look at it as him asking for her assistance with maybe marriage proposal in the back of his mind. And then when she got there one thing led to another and he asked her. But I could see how one could say that the proposal was his main objective and the clothing assistance just an excuse to ask her over.

reply

To the original poster:

You have a keen eye and some excellant points on the film. To be honest when I first starting reading your post I expected some artsy gobbly guk but that was not the case.

As another poster mentioned this is a film that absorbs the viewer, and like art we all have our views and interpretations, all equally valid.

Not sure if this was mentioned b4, I'm curious regarding the death scene of Zenemen. When he died there was a Script behind him, in Japanese of course.
He glanced at it for a second then fell to pass on. Does anyone know what this script said?

reply

Some excellent observations. Are you merely a film fan or do you study film?

reply

great comments - hadn't noticed a lot of those before

reply

nice comments
i just hope some1 cud answer quick Q i have bout the fight scene between Yogo and Iguchi.you know where they talking,and iguchi starts to ramble on a bit bout his training+short sword,then Yogo looks @ him,and everything starts to change,things get darker+more serious and Yogo gets up to fight.why is this?was Yogo trying to find out what person iguchi was(to see if Iguchi wud let him escapre),or was he just playing mind games be4 the fight?

reply

Yogo became offended when Seibei disclosed that his long sword was a takemitsu (bamboo shaped to fit like a sword -- he was forced to sell the long sword that he had inherited from his father to pay for his late wife's funeral and medical bills). As a clan-sanctioned assassin, Seibei was expected to fight like a true samurai using a "real" weapon -- the long sword -- instead of the kodachi (short sword) which is a weapon more suited for the female members of samurai families. Also, Yogo was the clan's expert on the use of the long sword so there was a desire on his part to test his skills against Seibei using the weapon of his choice -- he had already challenged Seibei to a match in an earlier scene -- so there were more reasons to fuel Yogo's rage. Ironically, Yogo had no way of knowing that Seibei was specifically chosen for the assignment due to his expertise in the use of the kodachi because the weapon was more suitable to fight in a closed-in environment.

reply

ah k dont know why i didnt think of that,stupid brain
just 1 more thing,ur saying that Yogo was the guy who challenged Seibei after he had beaten tomoes ex husband with his bamboo sword?didnt notice that

reply

>ur saying that Yogo was the guy who challenged Seibei after he had beaten tomoes ex husband with his bamboo sword?<

Yes, the scene takes place right after the match by the river. Yogo was a drinking buddy of Tomoe's ex-husband.

reply

i know the scene just didnt notice it was the same guy,thanks

reply

Remarkable observations! Domo arigato gozaimassu! If you ever write or direct a movie or even comment one let us know.

reply

Are these observations confirmed by the creators of this movie , or is this what you want to believe ?

reply

These are just my observations. I have not seen nor read any director's commentary though I certainly would love to. I personally find symbolism interesting and I always look for it in films. One part that appeals to me is that it's a paradoxical puzzle. The meaning is hidden but is in plain view. Also if you can decipher symbolism you get a more powerful experience from a good film because what you see evokes more emotion and significance.

Am I reading too much into the film? It's possible -sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I qualify some of my observations with "mays" to show that there could be another meaning (or none). However if you're familiar with some literary, film, and cinematography techniques and make an effort to deduce things you learn to notice what's pertinent.

reply

Excellent observations and they are much appreciated. Thanks.

reply

I read an interview with Yoji Yamada, and the trouble he went to to recreate the end of the Edo period was truly outstanding. The actors even had to be taught how to walk in period style, because modern Japanese (according to Yamada) walk differently now days!

reply

See the scene in The Hidden Blade in which the instructor is trying to teach the samurai how to march and run 'in the new English style'. Very funny scene. If you make people think about it too much they can't even remember how they normally walk. In fact the instructor is getting it wrong himself half the time. Left! Right! Left! Right!

reply

Thank you. I love this film.

reply

Nice post.

Did you watch this film once and notice all these things?

reply

i found the first post more interesting.

that was a very enjoyable read

-human

reply