MovieChat Forums > Dead Like Me (2003) Discussion > The irony behind the characters' names

The irony behind the characters' names


I'm a huge fan of the show from when it started coming out on DVD! I don't know if this has been commented on before, but many of the characters have names that suggest the opposite of their true nature.

Rube -- typically a derogatory term for a 'country person'; also means someone who is an easy mark for a scam. However, in DLM, Rube is the wisest, wittiest and most cultured among them.

Mason -- a word referring to someone who builds with skill and craftsmanship. Also someone who has mastered accuracy and precision. In the context of freemasonry, the name alludes to architecture, power and control, the ability to keep secrets. Conversely, the character of Mason (my favorite in the series) is an aloof, horny spaz who gets by from day to day as a grifter and scammer.

Joy -- Perhaps the most obvious (and I think George alludes to this in the series) -- the name is Joy even though it's not something she experiences.

Daisy -- "fresh as a" ...? often used to present the idea of innocence, purity or virginity. A white flower with a heart of gold. DLM's daisy does have a heart of gold on the inside, but her past is riddled with trysts on movie sets. :)

Roxy -- not sure about this one. The name derives from Roxana, wife of Alexander the Great, who murdered Alexander's other widow. I find it amusing that Roxy Hart (from "Chicago") was a dancer/showgirl, accused of murder. In DLM, Roxy herself was killed by a fellow dancer.

Crystal -- an object through which light divides into a spectrum of colors. Historically used for divination - while Crystal of DLM, we learn, is some kind of special operative who sees everything and reveals nothing.

George! -- There is the irony that both Georgia and her sister Regina have boys' nicknames (George and Reggie) and that their last name is then "Lass". Perhaps a joke from the creators?

In any case, this show had a lot of depth. It was a shame that it got canceled!!

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I picked up on Joy particularly as in Joylass, but didn't think much beyond. You make a lot of good points.

I like the Rube, Mason, Daisy slants.

Crystal tho is a stretch. That is in fact her real name.

Roxy???

Fuller likes the boys names for his actresses..any idea why?

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Fuller likes boys names for actresses because he's gay. It was the same concept behind Sex and the City, a show about four women written by mostly gay males. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

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[deleted]

That actually explains a hell of a lot (not all of it positive) about both shows.

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@darylloganoff-

"Fuller likes boys names for actresses because he's gay. It was the same concept behind Sex and the City, a show about four women written by mostly gay males."

The main characters in SATC were Carrie, Charlotte, Samantha and Miranda. How are those boy names?

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Good post!

I also noticed Dolores (which means Sorrow), who is constantly cheerful.

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"George Glass" I'm a Brady-phile and I missed that. I just googled and apparently they make a George Glass joke in "Bridesmaids".

Great post. This is when someone comes along and says "Aren't you over-analyzing this a bit?" and I'd say to them "Yep. So what?"



(My name is James and my eyes are blue.)

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We've sat down to watch both seasons, back to back. The first season's writing, cinematography and production design contribute to what I consider to be a work of art, as far as TV series are concerned. Layers upon layers, with multiple arcs occurring where they made the best effect to the overall. Of special note is the way the writers managed to use previously shot footage to help tell the story, moving big arcs across the series, as well as satisfyingly move episodes along. Without great writers knowing what was in the can already, it couldn't have been done, so they should be congratulated.

The success of season 1 did, IMO, negatively affect the tightness & polish of the second season. That's my analysis for the slightly less pleasing, to me, overall craftsmanship of the second season. Not bad; certainly much, much better than most of the schlock that gets trotted out on typical prime time channels. Season 2 is SIGNIFICANTLY better than most of the best of mainstream TV. It's just that, once you've experienced sublime season 1, there is a bit of disappointment that it wasn't as good as the last time you sampled it. Less a work of art than a work of desperation, by a teensy bit. I can smell the budget concerns.

Shall we blaim the computers, or the writers?


Signature? What's wrong with my old signature? It WAS here, wasn't it? I didn't leave it somewhere?

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By the time we get to the second season the main themes regarding George and her shock over dying and then her manipulations to help her sister are losing their energy.

The writers did the obvious and expanded the arcs involving the other reapers. That worked pretty well for me, but I wonder what Season 3 would have looked like and whether it would have been as interesting.

After getting over my disappointment at the abrupt feeling to the last episode I was able to appreciate the care and detail put into bringing the main themes to closure.

By the time we see George running thru the cemetery saying "It's not so bad being dead like me" Reggie has recovered and seems to be doing well. The next season would have had to tap into some significant new story material to justify itself.

DLM in those two seasons at its worst is still better than most of the other stuff on TV. I like to believe that a season 3 even if it faltered would still have been watchable. One look at the movie and you can see just how bad it can get, and that was with the original writers.

The movie does have some bright spots - in particular the interaction between George and the much older Reggie - that show some possible directions a reformulated DLM might be able to go.

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<==Spoilers Ahead!==>

That's an excellent analysis, Danloton. I would agree with everything you have to say, but would diverge to looking for something more than just well-executed arcs, providing the architectural bones to a world still being built, those bones perfectly suited to support the tissues of lovingly crafted words, that never went over towards the shark, always feeling true to the character, or the situation and growth the character might be allowed to make. Those words, those measured and sifted and combined words provide the many aids and "thank godders" that really talented actors are very grateful for, well-chosen words that can work for different readings, so they can actually stretch their acting muscles, deliver closer to virtuoso than session player.

Not that their is any difference between the virtuoso and the session guy in artistic talent, sensitivity, vision, boldness. It's just that, well, when the magic's not there, are they really gonna put everything into this? Isn't there a holy fire glow for the greatest work they do, and when that magic leaves the air on the set, I would think it would close the performers up, a little.

That's what factor I felt affected me in the latter part of Season 2. Things weren't as well thought out as I was expecting. Especially character development. Yeah, yeah, I know the rule about the reset button, but Dead Like Me started by breaking that rule.

There were some really wrong steers with some of the characters. Why was Mason's character pushed into cornball? Why didn't we learn what Rube had done that got him killed? That alone would have provided tons of epic material, and when Mandy Patinkin can feel good stuff to work with, and the encouragement to really go for it, he always delivers! What about Daisy's many, many famous paramours, some of whom she didn't actually know There's a solid base for exploration. Roxy's dance career? What? Dancer to cop? I can't see it, but I would have loved it if the writing team could have surprised the crap out of me by showing that evolution. Especially if they can do it with conviction, some great turns that aren't brutally telegraphed. Honest, completely top notch acting, loving to really give everything they had into making it feel as real as possible to the audience.

It's almost like the writing team were scared to touch the work started with Season 1, and considered as well-executed as it could be, a work of art. At the end of Season 2, I could certainly admire the swift, bold and confident lines of a new painting, but only roughed in, with promise. It's a pity the scope had to grow so much. It really thinned the experience for me.

So, while I felt in Season 1 that awed, pleased feeling when you see something absolutely amazing; awe-inspiring. It's a bit exaggerated to use that about acting, or direction, whatever, but everyone knows that feeling. Seeing the moon close-up with a really good telescope for the first time. Standing on the edge of the Grand Canyon. Your first helicopter ride, with a pilot who was very recently in the military. Your first Black Diamond ski run. Heck, several Black Diamond runs. That was Season 1 for me. Season 2 was more like a good reproduction of an original, or the feeling you get when you learn that Santa isn't real. Or the Easter Bunny. Or the Tooth Fairy. Maybe even the Bogey Man.

I was sadder about the lack of wonder I had for Season 2 than I am when a regular TV show annoys me in 5 minutes, and won't stop. At least they knew they could do better.

--Signature? What's wrong with my old signature? It WAS here, wasn't it? I didn't leave it somewhere?

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I first watched the series after it was out on DVD, so I got to take one episode after another - like one long movie.

Probably the series should be thought of as having three parts. The first five (counting pilot as first) episodes were by Fuller, followed by the rest of S1 and S2, which were done by Godchaux and Masius.

The Mason character seemed to be the least stable in development. He would become what was needed to make the plot move for a particular episode. So in the pilot and often after he seemed to be a tad bit leaning toward the larcenist at times even as he was pretty together despite a weakness for Betty and then Daisy. Later he developed the cornball aspect. But towards the end I thought his best scene was when he gave Daisy the engagement ring (when he thought it was his last day).

Roxy seemed to me the least developed. Tho she seemed to fit well as a cop.

Daisy on the other hand was clearly a favorite for Godchaux and Masius + writing team - probably because she was their creation. They spent on lot of screen time developing her character.

In the episode (1-11) with the painter she started her search for some deeper meaning. At each step of the reap and the after handling the writers used Mason and his handling of the gay couple as a counterpoint to Daisy's abrupt treatment of the painter. The climax was the scene when the painter (under the influence of the PTB?) tells her to her face that 'There's more. But you have to try harder". That starts Daisy on her search for 'more'.

A third major theme that goes all the way back to the first episodes after the pilot is the odd deeply buried one between Rube and George. Like George, Rube became a reaper close by his family. He had contact (like George was attempting) with his family and then (unlike George - probably because the series got truncated at S2) he cut off all contact until very late after George was placed under his care, his long dead concern for his family (by then only his daughter) got reignited by his frequent collisions with George and her ventures to visit and communicate in one form or another with her family.

The first theme is that of George's reaction to her own death (right out of 'The Lovely Bones'). The second is that of the interplay between her and her family's reactions and goings on (also right out of TLB). But unique to DLM is this third one between Rube and George. They each had a huge impact on the other over the two seasons we saw and given their similarities perhaps the PTB were pulling strings for the benefit of both. Rube needed his daughter/George needed a father.

While I would have liked to get the full unlayering of the Rube backstory and find out more of the details about his crime and how it (probably) got him killed, I would very much like to have seen what happened after he became a reaper regarding his family. What interaction he had with them? And what triggered his draconian response to not 'haunt' them at all for several decades? We got to see the end when his run in with George awakened something, but ..... And the way the DLM stories are told - with lots of questions left open - did the PTB deliberately place George with Rube knowing within the range of free will etc the likely effects on both?

One final comment. DLM is very much like a long movie. Lots of series have character development and plot elements extending over an entire season, but few have the most important plot arcs so deeply buried. It makes it hard to attract a large audience, because it's probably tough to drop in on a random episode and follow the main story lines. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I remember posts saying how they tuned in and just got hooked.

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That was an awesome write-up, Danioton.

I suppose these forums are as close as IMDB gets to Wikipedia's Discussions tab for any Wiki topic. Excellent character analysis & reverse-engineering the world-building.

Your point about the demarcation after Fuller handed over reins as Show Runner is a really good one. I wonder what the effect would have had on the people involved in the show. Sometimes that kind of leadership change can cause real ripples through a crew as well as the cast, which must contribute somewhat to the worst thing that I can imagine happening to a show: creating & nurturing the magic, then watching events starve and kill the magic. When things go from the shared experience of building, together, a thing of beauty, I think people give extra focus to whatever task they might do. If they can feel the magic, I know they would want to keep it going. When the magic was never there, then it's a job—"We're professionals; we do professional work." Starting out feeling the magic, only to live through it draining away, must be worse than being involved in a mundane, magicless production. Maybe it's the same paycheck, but there's more than pay involved. You don't stay in film & television for the paycheck. I would be doing it to create things, things people will want to watch, will go out of their way to watch.

My philosophical 2¢ on what makes art, and what results in craft, especially translated across large teams. There can't be anything more difficult than inspiring hundreds of people to push to do their very best at everything they do, and keep doing it for 9 months straight.

--Signature? What's wrong with my old signature? It WAS here, wasn't it? I didn't leave it somewhere?

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When it's more than a paycheck it's especially hard for an actor to have a show cancelled. Mandy does a commentary though he rarely watches himself on film, someone said they recently talked to Callum, very polite answers to questions about The Tudors and Smallville but really lit up when asked about DLM.

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[deleted]

Really enjoyed this intelligent discussion of the show. I differ from you in that I think the final episodes of season two were the best of the entire show. I liked seeing the character development of the entire reaper crew.

Personally, I think shows are best when the characters expand to include both what the actor and the writers bring to the table. A show starts with the writer's ideas and it usually takes some time for the actor to start shaping the character. I think that's what was happening in season two.

HARMONY: Preaching to the horse's mouth.

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[deleted]

The creator, show runner, and executive producer Bryan Fuller was forced out be fore the second season.

The series was about people relizing what they missed in life, but second season they were HAVING lives. Therefore S1 & S2 were different series with the same cast and similar charaters.

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I'd like to know why the name/word Georgia is featured in the series at least 3 times...

1. George's real name

2. a document showing Daisy was either from or died in Marietta, Georgia (it wasn't clear when I was watching the show, but online several sites list that as the location of her death, caused by smoke inhalation. Also note that Gone With the Wind was not filmed in Marietta, at all).

3. documents showing Rube's family's address on Georgian Lane.

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4) Deleted scene that is used in TV rebroadcasts where Joy mentions a neighbor family that moved to Savannah, Georgia.

5) The "Peanut Poppies" candy Roxy loves were made in Georgia and Given to her by the nice old man who she managed to let live an extra year. His mom in Athens, GA sent them to him.

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Roxy might have been named for the Roxy Theater:

http://theroxyonsunset.com/?page_id=707

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Marvelous note of details. Joy was the one I noticed first - how her name and character were completely at odds. Didn't think to take it farther. I love it that Chiller is running the series again, since I missed it the first time around.

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I liked Angus, the surly cook at The Waffle House. His yellow post-it read "A Cook."

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This is a really interesting post! However, I always had the impression that Daisy was making up the stories about her 'conquests' to seem more interesting and to get attention. Most/none of the stars she mentions aren't around anymore to confirm or deny the stories and in one of the behind the scenes features I think the actress herself states that she feels the character is constantly looking for attention, especially from Rube. Even if that is negative attention!

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The evidence for Daisy is (probably intentionally) contradictory.

Towards the end of the Ray arc there's a scene in the booth between George and Rube in which Rube says that under his watch Daisy hasn't been involved with the living and in general his attitude towards her stories didn't add to her credibility.

But then in the last episode, the old doorman recognizes her as the Daisy Adair always on the arm of some movie star several decades before, which would tend to support at least some of her renown (self reported) from at least when she was alive.

Oddly just before her fling with Ray and during George's happy collision with Trip it's Daisy who darkly warns her about her having 'everything' to lose by getting involved with him. If her warning is to be taken at face value then it would seem that reapers and the living are not allowed to get involved and it's an admission she hasn't (but then she does so with Ray). But the boundaries are never made clear (probably intentionally).

As far as dalliances the reapers have three options of which only one is really explored.

- with the living / Ray and Trip and then the living girl in the music store

- with each other / Mason pursues Daisy with no success on screen - S1 Rube and Roxy hinted at

- with the newly dead souls / It's consistently shown thru -out that vs the dead souls the both sides have substance.

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Good stuff. I think the thing I noticed most about Joy's name was the combination of her whole name; Joy Lass, which sounds a LOT like "joyless". Pretty true, really. That was one profoundly unhappy lady.

Here's to the health of Cardinal Puff.

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Roxy could also refer to Roxanne from Cyrano de Bergarac, the tragedy - where the character of Roxanne only recognises the man she loves (and who truly loves her) while he is dying.

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The girl in the music store - Jewel Staite.

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Roxy seemed obvious to me because I saw Jasmine Guy play Velma in the musical Chicago. She didn't actually play Roxy, but I think that's where it comes from.

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