Truly Awful Stuff


Catherine Brilliat's films are pretty crap as far as I am concerned. Out of the three I have viewed so far, Romance, Fat Girl and Anatomy Of Hell, only Fat Girl came close to being a good movie, but even that was self indulgent, had a random ending (presumably to wake the people who had fallen asleep) and was typical French film boredom.

Anatomy Of Hell however, serves no point except to disgust the audience and push boundries. If you haven't seen it and want to know what you're in for, here's a list.

- Brief gay oral sex (the first shot of the movie, no less)
- Finger inserted into wet vagina (a bit gross)
- Finger inserted into bloody vagina (even worse)
- Some dildo play
- Bloody tampon put in a glass of water, then drinking of said water
- Pitchfork inserted into woman (not the pointy end mind you)
- Close up shot of penis removed from vagina, then vagina oozing blood (the crowning achievement in disgustingness)

And there's plenty more I'm sure, nudity and erect penises a plenty!

I'm no prude either, but watching all this was an endurance test, the cringe factor is extremely high with this movie. But the worst crime this movie commits is that it's boring!

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Oh please. Catherine B. isn't exactly helping the feminist cause by making crap like this. Even Belle du Jour was better. Oh, and there are better "arousing" films that this one.

The Lover
Emmanuelle
Sex and Lucia
Wild Orchid
9 1/2 Weeks


Anyone else have any recommendations for Killer 6?

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"- Finger inserted into wet vagina (a bit gross)"

I see. You must have a fascinating love life.

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by your snide remark im assuming that you consider Darksunshine's list of unsettling scenes regular sexual fare.

"- Finger inserted into bloody vagina (even worse)"

it seems you too can boast of a fascinating love life.

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You're right shawn-m-post, what was I thinking? OF COURSE touching a lady's unmentionable area during her foul and ugly time is truly disgusting and uncalled-for. Sorry I wasn't more clear on that before.

Have your girl give me a call next time you jump in the shower immediately after touching her.

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One thing I found sickening and totally uncalled for was the shot of the little girls vagina. We see her getting into the bushes and removing her panties so that the three boys can look at her. OK WE GET THE MESSAGE. :-(

As for the movie, I only saw it because a friend of mine recommended it as a thought-provoking etc. How wrong he was. This movie was sick and disgusting and I didn't find it thought provoking at all.

-CW

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"- Finger inserted into wet vagina (a bit gross)"

"I see. You must have a fascinating love life."

My love life is just dandy. And I think it's gross!

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I agree to the fact that it's a bit gross (and he did say "a bit") to see a big shot of the vagina.

Of course a wet vagina itself is not gross, but do you have to put the camera into it ? Come on... A medium shot of it with a head shot of the girl to see the emotion would have been enough to get to the point.

And before I get accused, I'm faraway from being a religious freak against pornography or anything like that. If you wanna see some well used pornographic material in a movie, go watch Intimicy. In that movie, pornography is beautifully used.

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The fact that Laura is a woman (I'm guessing) and finds images of a vagina disgusting only further confirms that this film DID need to be made and shown.

Maybe the point of eliciting a 'gross-out' response is so you can THINK: Wow. Why is this disgusting to me? It's just a vagina.

OMG...I find vaginas disgusting?! OMG and I'm a woman?! OMG I've been conditioned by patriarchal norms to find my own body and bodily functions disgusting and shameful??! O noez!!

But apparently, asking some of these female viewers to think instead of blabbing some knee-jerk icky-poo playground response is asking for a bit too much.

Shame on you women.

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I read about this movie in a horror movie thread and, thinking it was a horror movie, looked for it online. I only found it in French and watched it anyways.

I had just finished watching Saw: the final chapter while eating ham and drinking water with no issue at all. I almost ralphed watching this and I couldn't even drink my water.

I stopped watching about halfway through because the vagina juice was grossing me out.

I do think it is kind of crazy that I can watch people ripping their skin off and getting ripped apart for 2 hours but a vagina doing normal vagina things I couldn't handle.

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I have to agree with Dark Sunshine, this movie was boring as hell and disgusting...in a bad way. I'm no prude either. I like hardcore, softcore, exploitation, and gore movies. I like blood and sex, just not like the way Catherine Brilliat presents it here. I mean, come on....sticking a bloody tampon in a glass of water and then drinking it???? The first scene wasn't for me either, but that's due to my sexual preference. I realize she wasn't going for romantic or sexy here, but what else was she going for other than shock and disgust? All she seems to be missing here is up close, graphic defication and eating of said sh*t!!!! Hell, maybe I should film a bunch of people pooping and throwing it around at each other and call it art! Maybe I could win whatever kind of awards Ms. B. has won. I guess to each his own.

As for movie suggestions for Killer 6, maybe Bilitis (Which Catherine B. wrote the screenplay), Lady Chatterly's Lover & the Young Lady Chatterly's, Tendres Cousines, Femalien, Lolita 2000, Love Scenes, Body of Influence, & Mirror Images II.

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Hello!
I find American's most amusing, I realised that they don't like to see a gay scene if they are not gay, and if there's a film where the are no "good guys" (as they know it) they don't like it either. I think they must imagine themselfs in some charecter shoes... That's intriguing..., I mean a movie is a piece of art, I suppose they don't enjoy Picasso paintings either... .
Another thing, I like visiting IMDB a lot, it is very funny to see people insulting each other all the time, or for being a leftist (main sin), or for liking sex "in that time of the month", or for buyng non-US cars, or for stand for gun-restriction policies, you name it - everything falls into hard-temper comments.
Please, please keep it that way !!!!

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Hello, I am an American, but unfortunately, I must agree with you, Miguel... we Americans as a whole are a reactionary, unintellectual (not stupid) bunch. As a lifelong citizen of the USA (from Texas, no less!), I must say that I recognize our strong points, which are many, but one of them is NOT objectivity, and certainly compared to other places in the world, our cinema (at least nowadays) leaves quite a bit to be desired.
On the plus side, judged individually, Americans can be quite industrious, intelligent, and excellent at objective thought. I have not seen this movie (ANATOMY OF HELL), but I'm always intrigued by films that provoke such extreme reactions: a love-it/hate-it reaction, I guess.
Finally, I want you to know that I pretty much agree with everything you just said. (By the way, are you Spanish or Portuguese, or Latin American? Just curious...) And while I don't want to get into my political views, or anything like that, I share in your amusement at the level of anger that our opinions seem to inspire in one another.
I leave you with a final amusing aside: check out the plot outline for this movie (on the main page); it smacks of a righteous American blowing off steam in true "O'Reilly Factor"-style.

"I don't want some renegade necrophile princess as MY roommate!" -- Peggy Gravel, DESPERATE LIVING

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Miguel's observation is up to the point. The reactions of Americans, starting usually with words "I'm not prude..." and continuing with abrupt dismissal of this film, are very very funny. (Sorry, pals, do no take this personally but that was what I found most amusing at this web site.)

On the other hand, I admit that for me this film was also a disappointment but not because of the "ugly" scenes but because it just does not tell too much about life, borders of woman's identity or about anything else (other than the lack of invention of the authors). Let's face it, the main male actor is acting like lunatic (OK, I know he is used to a different genre but anyway, it was intolerably boring to look at him as he is starring for long minutes at vagina without blinking). So overall, I would also dismiss this film but not as a shock but just as a boring "intellectual porn", which is now, oh so fashionable, in France (have you seen The Pianist? that's really a catastrophe).

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This movie appeals to more sophisticated, intellectual and mature audience. In order to understand Breillat's work for what it is---a philosophical theorem and a modern myth about the meeting of the first man and the first woman, not a social study or a "plot" movie---one needs to have:

* an interest and knowledge of humanist philosophy from Ancient Greek Protagoras who said "Man is the measure of all things" and Roman Lucretius who said " All religions are equally sublime to the ignorant, useful to the politician, and ridiculous to the philosopher”, to modern works of Erich Fromm " and others.

Modern Humanism as a philosophy today can be as little as a perspective on life or as much as an entire way of life; the common feature is that it is always focused primarily on human needs and interests. Philosophic Humanism can be distinguished form other forms of humanism precisely by the fact that it constitutes some sort of philosophy, whether minimalist or far-reaching, that helps define how a person lives and how a person interacts with other humans and focuses on the importance of human experiences.

Breillat applies humanist philosophy to the meaning of a sexual relationship between a man and a woman---its origin, pain and aspiration to achieve mutual understanding, respect and transcendence through love with the help of our sexuality. Human sexuality is a means of communication between the two sexes and that's why sexuality became the language of the movie. So in this aspect she also explores Cultural Humanism .

* an appreciation and knowledge of the history of art and culture to be able to relate to the allegoric images

* open mind not to dismiss things one is not used to seeing in the mainstream

* comfort with sexuality and human body

* maturity and deeper understanding of sexual relationships that doesn't come from popular culture and media but life experience or the inner need to understand ourselves and the opposite sex.

I wrote a separate thread about her philosophy which I will post beneath to combine both messages. I wish people at least bothered to absorb some knowledge and listen to the director's commentary.

"just as a boring "intellectual porn" which is now, oh so fashionable, in France (have you seen The Pianist? that's really a catastrophe)."

I think YOU are the one using oh so fashionable jargon to discredit something you don't quite comprehend. The fact you lump " The Anatomy of Hell" together with " The Pianist" shows clearly there's no substance or logic in your statement. How does " The Pianist" classify as an " intellectual porn"? In what way is it degrading to the subject it presents?

Pornography is a sexually explicit writing/picture devoid of literary or artistic value other than to stimulate sexual desire. This movie is neither meant to arouse such nor it provokes any lust, as you can notice from all the postings here. It is supposed to make you think.

"it just does not tell too much about life, borders of woman's identity or about anything else"

Ditto. No clue just superficial statements demonstrating your intellectual poverty.

What is “life” to you? A pop-culture slogan like “life sucks” or everyday human condition?. The movie wasn’t meant to tell us about “LIFE” in the mundane sense of it or the existentialist meaning of life.

It's an abstract journey of initiation of a man told from his perspective during which he learns to understand, esteem and idolize a woman and to ultimately, as I mentioned above, recognize that the MUTUAL understanding, respect and admiration leads to love which in turn leads to transcendence achieved through our human sexuality. It is an ideal we, human beings pursue or should pursue. We make this connection possible using our sexuality as a way of communication between the two sexes---a language between a man and a woman that serves a higher purpose than just a sheer pleasure or procreation.

“borders of woman's identity”

Are you referring to gender identity or is it just an empty psychobabble ? Female identity has no limits only social female identity does and this movie is precisely about limitations put on females with regards to female anatomy and physiology as well as her needs. Western civilization has been deprived any female philosophy or linguistics, any female religion or politics(with very few exceptions). All of these disciplines have been set up and used by males to dominate women and that’s why Breillat’s seeking reconciliation between a man and a woman as well as human sexuality and social conditioning.





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Pornography is made to arise desire and this movie was made to arise thought. “Anatomy of Hell” is a film that cannot be viewed literally by applying social concepts to it. It is a poetic allegory, a legend, and a cinematic theorem where Breillat’s humanist philosophy is portrayed through sexual images. It’s supposed to have the naïve quality of the original cinema--- the silent film--- when images symbolized more than just what they represented. It’s also abstract because it makes it more personal otherwise we feel we watch someone else’s story different from our life. Breillat, as a director, is like an entomologist who has to examine things closely to “ know” them. And again many responses to her movie confirm the fears and the perverted morality of esthetics our society is permeated with and controlled by. It’s an insane hypocrisy to express disgust in art visualizing thoughts about the nature of a man and a woman but at the same time produce and watch reality shows like “ Fear Factor” where people devour slimy, smelly and odd looking things for money.

Here’s my analysis of the philosophical themes in the movie based on the director’s commentary.

The title Anatomy of Hell reflects the hell of female anatomy, which is the way fundamentalists regard a woman’s body. Her inspiration was Gustave Courbet’s controversial yet artistic and symbolic painting “ The Origin of the World” which can be seen in Musee d'Orsay in Paris. It is exactly what she reproduced in her movie---spread female legs exposing an open and hairy vagina with every detail of the female intimate anatomy.

The opening scene is the symbolical original meeting of the first man and woman, which is a confrontation of two completely opposite natures that terrifies both. Men and women experience this terror differently and this terror can create hatred or female self-hatred from rejection. The movie is not about love, a relationship or sex but about solitude of belonging to one species with two disparate mindsets and an effort to unite and transcend love expressed through our sexuality.

Although the director chose modern settings, a gay nightclub, calling Rocco a homosexual is wrong because the movie is not a social study but a legend. The image is figurative representing male domination, a place where men only want other men and women are excluded. She could have shown male politicians on TV with a single lonely female figure among them but since sexuality is a language men and women communicate with and bond the story is told using symbolical sexual images. The film is based on Breillat’s book “ Pornocracy” which is a political/historical term meaning “ The Rule of Harlots” and goes to the days when courtesans like Theodora ruled the popes and emperors. Courtesan is a dangerous woman, a femme fatale who makes men afraid they’ll loose themselves under her spell. The Man experiences the fear of being weak since men associate loosing control of their feelings with weakness.

The Deal is made to dehumanize the relationship and make it safe for the Man to experience anything that happens. Focus is to show what is “unwatchable” but in reality as soon as we watch we are either attracted or disgusted. Watching intimately evokes strong feelings never indifference. From hatred to curiosity, from curiosity to desire from desire to tenderness and what once seemed unwatchable becomes watchable.

The Woman is presented like a painting with her Odalisque qualities. She is a Sleeping Beauty ready for anything. In reality human body causes lots of anxiety and insecurity, which we hide in passion but here she is in repose, tranquil, offering herself to a painter’s eyes. http://mulot.free.fr/art/03%20-%20Ingres%20-%20la%20grande%20odalisque.jpg

After looking at that artistically perfect body the Man discovers female anatomy that horrifies both of them. The society esthetic codes imposed horror of femininity on women---a perception that body hair and organic secretions are frightening and disgusting. Yet after a closer, entomologist like examination the man’s revulsion is dispelled by fascination. The conspiracy of the modern society with its concepts of decency negates the sexual body and finds showing sexuality and desire obscene. However, when we have feelings vulgarity disappears. Breillat’s message is that social conditioning and human sexuality must be reconciled. That’s why the movie visually enters what is considered private and reserved for doctors using words starting with “psych”---a consensual hypocrisy of our society used to form a social bond.

This film is not only a theorem of anatomy and desire---the “unspeakable” but also it is about transcendence. In the end the Woman masters everything. She isn’t humiliated; she makes the Man see he cannot humiliate her and he cannot be humiliated either. Love is about giving away powers to each other. From that moment on the pleasure can begin---after the film---because what he learned he will use with the next woman. He goes like a King Kong from strength to tenderness and that tenderness women awake in men scares them because they see love as weakness. Weakness is a language. She feels defenseless against his force and he is defenseless against her weakness. Defenselessness is the path to enlightenment where there’s no need of emotional and sexual weapons. Power shouldn’t be used on others but on ourselves.

Biologically a man-woman relationship is not a war but historically it was set this way with women being the losers. All fundamentalist religions consider a woman inferior to a man and reduce sexuality to procreation. Sexuality is a part of our self-awareness and human sexuality is a language and a means of transcendence. We think and evolve therefore we are structured by love, which is transcendental. Love makes us feel unique and eternal and our sexuality makes us conscious of that. Human sexuality developed to uplift us not degrade us yet the religious and non-religious governments imply the latter because human sexuality is in direct competition with them since nation of lovers who identify themselves with transcendence cannot be governed. They keep us from discovering the transcendence of the sexual act by plunging us into guilt and imposing moral codes of obscenity. Pornography exists because of that guilt. It’s the truth we can never quite attain, like all truths. We identify with it and pursue that idea. Intimacy and secrecy are necessary to sexuality but not obscenity. It doesn’t mean we should have orgies but when we look at it the sin or indecency disappear and we feel freer, more loving to others because we love ourselves. There’s no vulgarity in love.

In the end the Man cries when he speaks the truth to another man which is no longer the truth. It’s a true account but the pain he feels says to the contrary. What happened is still happening inside him, something intimate and secret that came from the sexual initiation act he cannot share with other men. From now on he’ll begin a new life. He’s a new man but he’s alone. She returned to the consciousness of the womb, the sea---symbolical death. Every material death leads to the concept of eternity. Orgasm---the little death creates that fleeting feel of transparent body which allows us to identify with eternity and immateriality. Despite all we’ve learned and unlearned, there’s something stronger---our destiny, our true nature.

There are three allegory scenes labeled provocative---the lipstick, the tampon and the rake. They are not meant to stir or horrify but to understand. It’s human and as the Roman playwright Terence said “ Homo sum: humani nihil a me alienum puto”—I’m a man and nothing human is strange to me. We are like a student of surgery who sees an operation for the first time---initially it seems horrible but then we get used to the sight.

The lipstick is a childish gesture to highlight the indecent parts and make them more beautiful; then he’ll put lipstick on her lips. The Woman is serene and The Man wants to defile her but succumbs to desire of possession which is violent but melts into tenderness. He cries because he no longer knows who he is but it is by being lost we find ourselves. It’s an alchemist story of a man’s journey to enlightenment. The Woman is in a Christ position and she affronts the man with the truth she knows. When he knows it too and admits it with the suffering and disintegration of his personality that it causes he’ll be reborn beautiful, human and serene. It’s an initiation journey, the alchemic whitening (he was initially dressed in black).

The tampon scene signifies sacrifice. Drinking blood of our enemy is a ritual of respect and eternal friendship. It refers to the cultural blood sharing traditions of Native American Indians and the Holy Grail Quest---the respected enemy will become our most faithful friend like in case of Lancelot. Blood is a sacred symbolism---Kir Royal, the noble blood. The only blood that’s considered disgusting is women’s blood. It’s an incomprehensible perversion in the hearts and minds of mankind. For girls and women alike it’s traumatic and produces fear of rejection. This deliberate disgust is present in all fundamentalist religious views and used as a tool to dominate and subjugate women. Even in the western societies tampon commercials show blue color instead of red. Despite that, it was not Breillat’s intention to dwell on social issues but focus on the origin of mankind.

The rake scene was inspired by Caravaggio’s painting “ The Martyrdom of St . Sebastian”. http://www.phespirit.info/pictures/caravaggio/p070.htm and Brancusi ‘s extravagant sculpture showing the female body curved like an egg.
http://www.oclipa.com/photolibrary.php?ph=203&i=All

Pitchfork is a symbol of deity---Neptune (ocean) but also a devil and femininity can be diabolical and divine. When she wakes up and stares at the audience the trident is on the side and makes her look like a goddess. Later she returns to the ocean associated with feminine womb. If the art is used symbolically like in this case it rises above debasement, which can only occur in the mundane world.

Breillat used voyeurism to expose denial and the Freudian nonsense that women suffer from the penis envy. Girls suffer from being bullied by the boys when they are little, having their skirts pulled up and from being told that they can’t behave a certain way because “ girls don’t do that”. If anything men are jealous of ovaries and the power of birth. It’s known that some female species in animal kingdom switch gender in a single sex environment to procreate. However, her message is not feminist but humanist. Men are mysteries to women but we don’t want to understand everything. If something is an enigma it becomes an ideal we pursue therefore men are women’s ideal and women should be men’s ideal with the same esteem.











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So when will you get on the time capsule again and fly back to 1973. Good lord. Maybe it's because I'm from Holland that this movie seemed so incredibly outdated to me. On the other hand, it did make me laugh, and the familiarity of the sense of selfimportance in this movie, and the search for boundaries evoked a nostalgic longing for the world (well, the Netherlands anyway) as it was when I grew up. That in itself isn't bad, though I doubt it was the purpose of this movie.

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I'm sure that from a Dutch perspective, someone who can go to Amsterdam and legally screw a dog or any farm animal of one's choice, the movie may seem a bit "behind" but read most of the reactions on this board and you will see that in fact it is " ahead of its time" lol(and the average age of the posters ranges from teenagers to twenty somethings!).

It's not a question of self-importance; it's the director's need to touch on a universal issue that affected and still affects many generations of women and men---the quest for mutual understanding in a relationship, sexual or emotional.

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Universal. Ouch. I am not amongst the people who use words like universal, destiny and nature as lightly as you do in what you have written so far. I do however believe there are some biological, universal constraints on our selfdescriptions and that we can, to an extent, discover them in sciences such as evolutionary psychology. It does however require the kind of research that in the last couple of decades has been seriously hindered by ideologists who would rather believe there are, in your own words, "no limits on female identity, only social ones." A feminist idea that somehow never stopped them from thinking there are such limits on male identity.

The reason this movie is so horribly bad is because Breillat never goes beyond those seventies ideas. And you just have to, because anno 2005 we have societies like the one I live in that have, to a large extent, been shaped by such ideas. They helped shape the liberal, politically correct dutch society I live in, that lately ran into problems. Some french artists recognize similar patterns in their society and they try to explore it. Michel Houellebecq, for instance, does. Catherine Breillat does not. She limits herself to stories about female sexuality and by doing so she is like a reductionist scientist who thinks she can say something intelligent about the joy of children playing because she has carefully examined their toys.

As for the universality of this movie. I hope you don't mind if I don't go to the streets of Lahore or Monrovia and tell the people there that this movie conveys an important message about them. I would be really ashamed to show them what we spend our time and money on in our little corner of the world.

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I addressed Breillat's concept, which is already going beyond the postmodern thought in my response to another poster apunnamk.

Breillat and Houellebecq are not clones and thank God for that. There's no point in comparing these two as let's say Capote to Hemingway. There are some similarities between Breillat and Houellebecq but they speak different voices, have different style, concept and creative vision. Besides Breillat concentrates mainly on film directing and Houellebecq has never done a motion picture. A movie based on his “ Elementary Particles” is being filmed by the Germans so let’s see how it turns out and then discuss the two in terms of the visual art.

I could write the critique of his writings, which I happened to like, but this is not a place for that; it's a movie board so I'll wait for the film version of his book.

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A brilliant post, konijn!

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Nyccoolgirl.
I think that your intellectual elitism is shocking and I think that the director herself would find it actually rather offensive. The brilliance of this movie is that it is accessible, both philosophicaly and emotionally by individuals who are not as "well educated" as you claim to be. Your seeming attachment to the differentiation between "low art" (the very genre of style that is being drawn off of in this film) and "high art" (what you are rightfully defending here) is a classist and to be honest, shockingly out of date principle. Before you claim to speak with such authority perhaps you should look into *postmodern* intellectual theory, I think you would find it interesting.

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"your intellectual elitism is shocking and I think that the director herself would find it actually rather offensive."


And what makes you an authority to speak for Breillat making assumptions what she would find offensive or not?

I was responding to those who took the movie literally and bashed it out of ignorance as porn hence my attempt to clarify Breillat’s intentions based on her own comments. If you embrace the movie on your own terms my posts are not directed at you but since you responded let’s “deconstruct” your answer.

What you erroneously call "intellectual elitism" is merely curiosity in what an artist has in mind as well as interest in various subjects from practical knowledge of how to fold a shirt in 5 sec to history, arts, philosophy etc. Nothing prevents people from watching director’s commentary to get an idea what her message is. The rejection stemming from close mindedness is the target of my post.

Nowhere did I say that the intellectuals are the only ones able to appreciate Breillat; I said that the movie most likely appeals to those who are able to connect the dots, think and enjoy the experience. One doesn’t need to be a classical dancer to appreciate a ballet performance however, those who are can connect with the dancers and the art through their personal learning experience.

It’s just as easy to accuse postmodern writers and those who parrot them of pseudo-intellectual elitism. They create a Masonic-like secret society with their absurd terminology that makes Lem sound like a realist. Postmodernists use this language to cover up the fact that they have little new to say especially to science beyond globally denigrating all of it as obviously not "objective," not free of all sorts of assumptions. This insight should lead to more than the current arbitrariness in which many scientists these days respond to questions: "From post-modernism we know that there are no facts, so I can really say anything I want.”

"Your seeming attachment to the differentiation between "low art" (the very genre of style that is being drawn off of in this film) and "high art" (what you are rightfully defending here) is a classist and to be honest, shockingly out of date principle."


"Shocking" seems to be your favorite melodramatic lexical attachment making up for your inability to add anything of substance to the discussion about the movie itself besides regurgitating a bunch of wikipedia definitions: low art, high art, elitist, classist, postmodernist. Your post is suffering from -ist infection.

You grab a piece of my post like a drowning man clutches a piece of flotsam yet it has nothing to do with being classist but with the source of Breillat’s inspiration deriving from religious iconography (Caravaggio) to address the forbidden aspects of religion (namely Judaism) and various cross cultural (blood sharing custom), philosophical and cinematic references (Murnau). If she were inspired by Andy Warhol pop-culture works or cave art I'd have reacted the same way if people called it porn just because they didn’t recognize the origin of those inspirations so spare me this silly postmodernist neo-Marxist phraseology.

What Breillat does is reflective art not entertainment art or porn and that’s the core of my message. Her work is postmodernist in many aspects but she also goes beyond, to a transcendence of meaning as a new foundation by merging philosophical concepts to find her own artistic way of expressing a keen interest in a meaningful human life. The central message in this movie is humanist (neo postmodern humanist if you will) --- reconciliation of two species through love facilitated by human sexuality as a language---therefore such an abstract philosophical theorem had to be visualized by a mix of both verbal and body language.

Since there is no romance she couldn’t write a script with things like “she's lying on the bed, she's spreading her legs, he's watching her and it's really, really awful.” Most scenes are mute, because all lyrical passages and dialogues had to be translated into metaphorical and metaphysical light, literally transposed into cinematic light.

"Before you claim to speak with such authority perhaps you should look into *postmodern* intellectual theory, I think you would find it interesting."


I’m interested in various philosophies not necessary in what is currently fashionable. Cultural and socio-political trends are cyclical and the end of each century oscillates towards decadence and disappointment with the previous concepts, goes to the other extreme just to be counterbalanced or balanced by constantly evolving philosophical trends. Every new interpretation automatically challenges any previous interpretation.

By using a cliché word “outdated” you not only limit yourself within particular boundaries but also outdate yourself because new or updated philosophical concepts are emerging as you are typing your post. Postmodernism is dead and already gave way to critical realism, after postmodernism, neo-postmodernism, trans-modernism and many more to come so examine your own awareness before accusing someone of being outdated.

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thank you nyccoolgirl for your postings. you're the only one here who's bothered to think or make any sense.

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Yeah, I really enjoyed the film perhaps because it has a different meaning for me just now. But maybe two years ago, who knows? Your comment made me wonder- is any movie ever really out of date? Maybe that category does exist. I live in australia, so fairly liberal, but then again, we have a homophobic prime minister (said in the press that if his son were to turn out gay he would still love him ,but he would be disappointed - mmm, yeah.). we also have no same sex marriage here yet and there are laws which discriminate against homosexuals/bisexuals. So,living outside of Europe, it seemed a pretty hard hitting film to me, here. Do you have an opinion about the gay guy and whether it was a homophobic portrayal? Or any other poster ? (Maybe you were not interested enough to think about it).
I felt it was an interesting comment being made, not a homophobic one. I think even though it was totally about man woman realtionships, it was never made sure that the guy would not just continue to be actively homosexual. Maybe he fell inlove (or whatever the innerstate was??) with the human being, not the gender? Even though, ironically, it was about a war between the two sexes and trying to understand otherness. Maybe she was amikng a statement ,also, about the fluidity and the mystery of the choices we all make of life. I didn't find it ultimately grim but optimistic.

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Oh, I read the discussion about banning certain movies in Australia including this one, which TG didn't happen.

Do you have an opinion about the gay guy and whether it was a homophobic portrayal?

Definitely not homophobic and not man hating. Since human sexuality was the language of the movie she chose to present an image of a species---"the men who don't desire/love women"---in a sexual way too, as a gay man. However, it's only an allegory. He symbolizes rejection of women in general. Here are Breillat's own words:

Q: A recurring motif in your work is women who are involved in relationships with men who refuse or are unable to fulfill their sexual desires. I'm interested in why the woman in Anatomy of Hell picks a man out of a gay club.

Catherine Breillat: More than for desire, she is looking for her sexual identity, for her “self”. For her, he is a kind of image. It's not a club for homosexuals, it's a club where men come together, men who don't like the company of women, and there are many places on the planet where men don't like women. It's an allegory for humanity (not just of gays). Men occupy the surface of the planet and the woman is the odd one out. Since there are only men in the world, they value and love each other. They don't need to love women. Confronted with that, the woman cannot exist with her human dignity intact: since she grew out of Adam's rib, she is conceived in his servitude, say the books. I think that if woman is defined by her sex, it is through sex, unhindered by its reproductive function and by the social denial of humanity, that she can build her identity. Refusing to see sex as a means of access to abstract thought and reducing it to a simple object of derision,totally shameful and devoid of its aura, is, in my eyes, a denial of humanity. My film rises up against that.

Rocco is original man, emerging from the mammals. His male dignity lies in being the strongest. Suddenly, he encounters not the female but woman. This woman, who through desire no longer responds to the laws of the species, endows him with emotions. He can't help but approach her and in so doing he loses his strength. But at the same time he gains feeling. And humanity, therefore. He gains by existing in the abstract rather than just in muscle. But as he is the last animal, at the point of becoming human, he is scared. Because he loves and senses his weakness, he kills the woman who sapped his strength. In the café he tells his story, he recounts his weakness. And this weakness is him becoming human, finding words. Then, he returns to the scene without thinking he has killed her. When he gets there, the house is empty but for nightmares and dreams. It no longer belongs to the reality of what happened to him. It appears now at the end of the initiatory rite of he who has become a man. The initiation has taken place. Obviously, he is horrified to have killed her but he needs to be aware of it to know that from now on he can accept feelings and weakness. I have always been for power without power. We have power over ourselves. If we wield it over others, it's tyranny. Having it gives you stature but you mustn't use it. Suddenly, the man in my film has the power of knowledge. He abandons brute force and that makes him grow in stature. I think that it shows genuine love of men to want to tell that story. I won't let anybody tell me the opposite."

I didn't find it ultimately grim but optimistic.

It IS optimistic. Despite the fact our species are different and will always remain somewhat of a mystery to each other we can achieve harmony, mutual respect and transcend love through our sexualities.

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OH, so someone else thought it optimistic?
Yes, I find a TV show like Queer as Folk (US one, haven't seen the Brit. version) far more concerning in its attitudes towards men and women (in different ways- mainly ambivalence towards the women) than Anatomy of Hell and yet that is watched by millions of people without any fuss (as far as I can tell). The writers on QAF seem to have a lot of trouble accepting the vagina with any respect,(not that every aspect of ourselves should be treated with great reverence, of course, send stuff up, but it's pretty nasty in QAF) and it has various school yard names given it (whether they are doing so deliberately to make people question their own attitudes is unclear to me,becaiue it never gets resolved or argued about between the characters, it just sits there as the elephant in the room- it seems there is a load of misogyny in that particular show).

So I came to Anatomy of Hell after deciding QAF was actually like that and I thought,wow, here is a writer (Breillat) who actually cares about getting right into the depths of what goes on between us - about the ambivalence, the hiding away of ourselves, and the the lack of intimacy in society. So it's very interesting looking at all of the mockery about the content as if they have something better to replace it with- more ambivalence? more distance? Fabulous. It doesn't matter but gosh, if nothing else, give her credit for getting off her butt, and thinking a little bit.

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"The writers on QAF seem to have a lot of trouble accepting the vagina with any respect," -symonsmichelle, thanks for the laugh, YOU ARE HILARIOUS.

As a QAF fan allow me to inquire - What the f!ck are you talking about?

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Gosh that level of rudeness, and about a tv show- you are coming across like one of those appalling Fox TV news reporters in America, so I don't know that I want to analyse anything with you Ms.Bear in case I get abused again. But anyone else?

QAF- I'm not the only Queer who detects a level of misogyny in QAF and I compared it to A of Hell because QAF *does* contain some pretty awful references to female anatomy here and there- *and* it never gets challenged by any of the characters (so far, in Australia) even though it presents intelligent lesbian characters- I guess I sense a contradiction- at one level the characters are meant to have complex but generally "one big family" relationships, but there is just this biting hate in it too and it does get directed at the women . And the Rosie O'Donnell character, and how they made it kind of pathological and creepy (because she's not a glamour puss?)- can noone (who is prepared to have a discussion detached from personal jibes) see it?

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You don't have to analyse anything with me but I'll respond. Let me start with a disclaimer that I have not yet seen Anatomy of Hell but am familiar with other Breillat films which I generally find more provocative than entertaining -they are interesting in a car wreck sort of way. But my comment wasn't based on the film anyway.

If you seriously feel that I verbally "abused" you I would like to welcome you to the real world and suggest that you toughen your skin a bit because I was JOKING. If you cannot see the humor in the line that I quoted from your post than it is not at all surprising that you are offended by "various school yard names" that are used in QAF. Have you failed to notice that such "school yard name" are used disproportionately on QAF in regards to MALE genitalia since the show is primarily a show about gay MEN? Brian is the one most often making such comments and if you are unsure about why such comments are being made I think that you don't understand his character very well or the show itself for that matter.

I have not noticed myisogyny in QAF but that's not to say there may not be some in there if someone is hellbent on finding it. If you found Rosie O'Donnell's character pahtological and creepy what on earth do you make of Ted?

And just to upset your delicate sensibilities more - in regards to your Fox TV news comment - what the f!ck are you talking about?

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I don't understand your obviously feminists views. Female anatomy and sexuality is much more accepted than male's. Women make snide comments about male sexuality and anatomy constantly and degrade it. Many times, the penis is completely censored. Explain your point.

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Thanks, but I'll take a class in philosophy when I think I need one. Meanwhile, is the reason for you expressing your disgruntled rants on this forum that you were turned down by more suitable forums (like a univerisity where they might pay a qualified teacher to rattle off such psycho-babble)?

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This is to you nyccoolgirl,


You must truely love the sound of your own voice! You would'nt happen to be a student at la FEMIS in Paris? I know Breillat teaches a class there and I am wondering if she shows her films to her students after seducing them LOL

Just kidding

But intesrestingly enought, I have found much more insight on the human condition in movies that have alot less anatomy to them (Robert Bresson's films for example)

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I don't understand some posters' need to flatter me with their jealousy. I just wish some people writing here were more inquisitive and open minded about the filmmaker's ideas without acting on their conditioned mental reflexes.

And no, I'm not her student or a student. I'm closer to her generation so maybe I'm more receptive to the issues she brought up in her movies.

I have found much more insight on the human condition in movies that have alot less anatomy to them((Robert Bresson's films for example)

There's no need to compare apples to oranges. I like Jane Campion's movies for the same reason. Breillat as a female director found her original voice and her own way of telling her stories. If you don't appreciate it, it's your personal taste. I don't like most of Picasso's paintings(I played with his continuous line drawing style though lol) but still appreciate his uniqueness and creative energy.

I'm not going to address the questions in your second post since you seem not to be "seduced" by my passionate writing either. You will need to do some research if you want explanations.

And btw, she doesn't believe in therapy!



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Hey, there's one thing that preoccupies me. Is'nt the seen with the children playing doctor consodered child pornography in most countries? Do you think Roco understould anything of the movie? I don't remember the gay scene but was that real? And yes, WHO TRHE HELL CAN HAVE SUCH THOUGHTS AND EBVEN LESS MANAGE TO GET PEOPLE TO MAKE A MOUVIE OUT OF IT!!?? AND WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDRENS PARENTS IN THE MOVIE?!! wWERE THEY ON SET TO EXPLAIN THE CREEPY OLD LADY'S VISION OF HOW BAIES ARE MADE!?!! MY GOD THE BLOOD, WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT!!?



CATHERINE BREILLAT NEEDS THERAPY!

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I agree that this film borders on disgusting. I'm no prude, have no problem with sex and nudity on film. But shots of the female body, filmed so close up that the camera was practically nestling in her pubic hair was unpleasant. And so many shots of random objects being stuck into her vagina, plus truly disgusting images like the bloody tampon. Anyone who can claim that is erotic is just seriously gross. I don't even get Catherine Breillet, she claims to be a feminist then shows a female body being used like one big hole for things to be stuck into. Her obsession with bodily fluid and orifices is quite disgusting

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What I find truly amusing is everytime there is a review of a foreign film, you have the inevitable Anti-American post from some european who's only experience with America is through the internet and who's only image of an American is the caricature that exists in their mind. Could you possibly be any more shallow?

Other than that, we'll let your improper use of an apostrophe slide.

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"Anti-American post from some european"

She's an Aussie. I don't find her post Anti-American just because she didn't like the approach to female characters in QAF.

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Are Europeans really that different? Look at the right wing voters in GB.

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"Hell, maybe I should film a bunch of people pooping and throwing it around at each other and call it art! Maybe I could win whatever kind of awards Ms. B. has won. I guess to each his own."

Ever seen Salo?

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Thanks you. And a John Water's tip off to the Original Poster. People who don't really watch film shouldn't comment on film.

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I gotta agree with everyone on this one. Watched it with a mate about a month back cause the cover (A woman with no nipples) caught our attention. We spent the entire duration of this film (80 odd mins seemed like an eternity, trust me!) with a series of shocked, confused and largely disgusted expressions on our faces. There is no real point to this film other than needless shock value and the mind truly boggles as to how they managed to fund this dull and offensive film. Like many of you, i am no prude. I frequently will seek out, and enjoy, films that are supposed to shock and offend, but this was just a little to much. If the content was justified with some sort of a plot maybe it wouldn't be so bad but as it stands this film is just a load of rubbish. Genuine dry gag material.

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I disagree with the lot of you. Unfortunately Catherine Breillat, being an intellectual makes films that are pretty esoteric and some might find boring or worse, pretentious. Sexual arousal in the viewer is not the aim of her films at all and as I can tell from some of the postings, if it doesn't have a jazzy sountrack, slow motion, sex scenes with surgically enhanced females it is automatically boring.

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Love it when it pushes all the wrong buttons of people who otherwise seek out the unusual, the crass and the shocking. Limits must have been reached by this movie for some. Good on it. Blogged on the film after I saw it: http://uroskin.blogspot.com/2005/07/anatomy-of-hell-i-watched-movie-with.html

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Ms. Breillat's films are certainly not for everyone, but she is consistent in her themes, going back to 1975's "A Very Young Girl." We men are squeamish sorts next to the gals, but I like her themes -- she even explored them in a book she wrote while still a teenager (sorry -- I own it, but the title escapes me at the moment). I'd much rather work my way through her thematic trails than see "The Pacifier," for one of many possible examples. I thought "Romance," especially, was brilliant, gutsy work (above all by Caroline Ducey) -- and quite sexy to boot, in spite of itself.

* - O.A.L.A. - E.H.O.

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Im sorry but i simply found it hard to sit through anatomy of hell. this has got to be one of the slowest paced. excruciatingly boring movies i have ever seen in my entire life. there was one individual on the comments page who stated that underlying topic of anatomy of hell, was the attraction/revulsion of female sexuality. and i agree. personally, though this topic was better explored in a more captivating manner by Matsumura in his OORU NAITO NAITO RONGU (ALL NIGHT LONG) trilogy. as well as a host of other movies. especially of the japanese pinku eiga genre.

ALL NIGHT LONG: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0190231/

If you enjoyed AoH i would suggest checking out Matsumuras films if you get the chance for a different take on the same subject, although Matsumura i feel takes his subject to a much deeper level, as well as addressing a few other topics. his conclusions expressed in the second and third film are relatively grim and unforgiving. if on the other hand, you found AoH to be a bit "shocking" or "offensive" then i highly suggest you stay FAR FAR away from the ALL NIGHT LONG trilogy.

as far as shocking goes. ANATOMY OF HELL really didnt have anything going on that i personally have seen or done before.

and im an american. ;)

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I agree with the fact that this movie is repulsive and gross. Having a strong stomach and being able to sit through alot of movies if the subject matter interests me enough, this one i could not watch. I think i made it about 15-20 mins the film after i said "enough" as i felt my intestines moving. The sad thing about this is that the meaning and message is very vague yet the imagery is so strong. This makes this very difficult to watch with zero guarantees that it invoke some thought even remotely. It just ends up being 1.5 hours of xxx rated scenes trying convey some deep message which this movie fails miserably in doing.

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I watched this move and found it interesting. The sex stuff did not matter to me. Truly awful nah The scene that bothered me a lot is the part were the little girl took off her panties and they showed it now that bothers me alot. Up until that shot I thought the movie was pretty good. After that shot is was truly disturbing because I could not get that site out of my eyes and feel that she should be booked on child porn charges. Erect penises yes alittle too much because the cheap porn really did not save the film.

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"feel that she should be booked on child porn charges"

hmmm...together with 300 religious Renaissance paintings of naked baby Jesus?

Hans Baldung Grien, Holy Family, 1511
http://jupiter.ucsd.edu/~rstevens/kuo/C3.JPG

Denys Calvaert(Dionisio Fiammingo), Holy Family with St. John the Baptist, 1580-85

http://dciswww.dartmouth.edu:50080/v3?db=914&page=q&qry=Artist%20%22Calvaert%22&dfn=3&srt=-1

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No, now come on- I too enjoyed the film, it made me feel and reflect and I personally think there was a level of deep intimacy and the celebration and the complexity of that which clearly not everyone can manage, probably for a variety of reasons. But...the young girl. No. Let's not call up any other example of depictions of childhood nudity to strengthen the case for having it in there. Just look at it on its own terms. This is a very young girl, a young actress, making that scene happen. I'm going to take the moral high ground and say that I don't believe any young child could be sophisticated enough to give informed consent to something like that. Too bad if we can find thousands of other examples of nude children in art and we keep viewing them- we're focussing on what this image does. It's not the nudity that offends , it's the child's vulnerability within a highly sexualised context that scares me so much. If someone were to argue back that I am being 'precious' or 'missing the point' here is not satisfying. Forget other depictions, just on an intuitive level, I don't have the same reaction to seeing a Renaissance painting of the Christ Child as the one I had to seeing this image. Call me hypocritical if you like, but I have a child of that age and I just think it's too young to display whatever her private sexual world might consist of. Children like to explore their sexuality in private, that's all.
I saw the Tin Drum and I similarly wondered about the young actor and how the director dealt with it with him. But this was unmistakably too strong for a child actor to participate in, in my view.

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My previous comment expressed reservation about classifying the scene as child pornography.

The depiction of said sexual contact has been achieved in the film without involving the participants in sexual contact. It is brief and most certainly not designed to promote pedophilia. This sequence acknowledges the sexuality of children and makes a disturbing suggestion that dismay at the encounter with female genitalia characterizes male sexual behaviour and female self-regard from an early age. (This scene and the boys’ sense of shame are tied to another scene in which one of the boys squashes a sick bird to death.) This contention may be unpalatable to many, but it is not made to excuse, let alone promote, the degradation of children or women. Breillat’s intention throughout is to ask men and women both to confront and admit the origins of misogyny. There is no law to forbid the depiction or discussion of childhood sexuality per se.


"it's the child's vulnerability within a highly sexualised context that scares me so much." I have a child of that age and I just think it's too young to display whatever her private sexual world might consist of."

I understand your concern and there are industry guildlines regarding working with child actors. Just like in case of " Lolita" special effects technology was used to put this scene together. Breillat described filming of this particular scene on many occasions to her critics:

"For both the scenes about childhood memories, we have filmed young children with the utmost respect and understanding of their age and consciences. Both scenes were filmed on the last day.

The scene of the revelation in front of the naked little girl: This scene was shot entirely in reverse shots. We first filmed the fight with the stick, then the little girl who slips underneath the hydrangeas and slips her undies down around her ankles (during this sequence, the little girl was wearing a second pair of undies underneath). Then came the last reverse shot of the children laughing at the naked little girl: here, obviously, there was no little girl, but only the cameraman and his assistant making silly faces; in the same way of course, the glasses were only dipped in a simple jar of cream.

The last shot: the naked body of the little girl: It is obviously NOT our young actor – in both France and Portugal, I would have been prosecuted and the film would have been simply banned. The naked body is an illusion, a doll made by Dominique Colladant, the film’s special effect specialist."

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Oh-it's a doll, rightio then. My only concern was for the actual child who participated in that scene, not the director's ideas, which I had no problem with whatsoever.Thanks for clearing that up.

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I have strolled amusingly among the replys referring to the movie "Anatomie de l'enfer" and found an engagement and intellectual brawl beyond anything the movie itself achieved.Ten out of ten for all of you out there...

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I wasn't disgusted by the scenes you mentioned, nor do I think they were that bizarre. The pitchfork was a bit odd, but it made for an interesting scene.

Body fluids just don't disgust me - they're a part of everday life. Anyone who has had sex with a woman has likely encountered menstrual blood at some point, and certainly anyone who has had sex with a woman has encountered vaginal fluids. Drinking blood (diluted or not) is not really that unusual a concept. I have no particular interest in doing it, but I certainly didn't find it shocking.

Having said that, though, I really can't recommend this film to anyone. The idea was good and the film had a LOT of potential, but the writing was horrible. I love subtitled foreign films, and enjoy both French and French Canadian ones, but this film is definitely sub-par. It comes across as one long diatribe about the "evils of men," a fact that is verified by the director in the interview on the DVD. The assumption is that all men want to beat and/or kill women, and that this innate tendency is strongly linked to the sex drive. Andrea Dworkin would be proud.

I understand the concept of making a film where the characters serve as allegories of concepts or groups. The director makes these intentions very clear in her interview (which was, oddly, better than the film itself). She utterly failed to do this in a believable way in this film, however. The dialogue is stilted and sounds like a "Saturday Night Live" parody of a stereotypical French movie. The writing is the worst kind of pseudo-philosophy masquerading as something deeper.

If you're looking for something shocking, this film isn't it. If you're looking for a good talking heads movie, this isn't it. It also fails as an example of good French-language cinema, is not really that erotic, and doesn't push any real boundaries. It was something of a struggle to get through the last half of it - not because of the body fluid scenes, but because it was just so damned boring.

In a word, don't bother. There are a lot of excellent French-language films out there.

- Jesse

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