Physically possible?


I know it's undoubtely some fictional invention and story, or we would otherwise had heard about that ball before. However, on what physical theory is this invention based? It is hinted in the very beginning that water is kept at high pressure and needs not to be renewed in order to provide huge amounts of steam. We know it's hot steam because of two characters being burned by it, so I guess theres a temendous lot of "compressed" water inside that a simple heating mechanism could quickly blow out at high pressure.

What is unclear too is whether the three spheres "feed" the other contraptions at a distance, like the tanks and flying devices, or if its energy can solely be used in the internal pipes for the Tower's floating and operating machinery.

We must assume that most of the inventions in this film resort on steam's energy (including the boats), but there is no hint that smaller balls could exist for individual machinery and tanks...so I'm puzzled.

et ils sucent des cigares longs comme des fusils
-Jacques Brault

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Well I got a half-satisfactory answer from an older post...

et ils sucent des cigares longs comme des fusils
-Jacques Brault

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consider this... if you were to somehow compress enough water to lift an entire castle-mass... wouldn't it weigh half a continent?

you take a gallon of water... and somehow manage to compress 10 gallons of water into the same amount of space, that gallon jug would weigh ten times more.

If there was enough thrust to lift an entire castle... then holy Sh_t!!! that ball must weigh more than my two balls combined. I just kept laughing whenever i saw all the characters in the movie handle the steamball like it had the density of a medicine ball or a bag of salt. realistically (if the steamball were feasible in the first place) they would need tractors to simply drag the ball across the ground.

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Actually, if I am remembering my physics class correctly, doesn't turning water into steam lower its density? If that is the case, and all the water in the steamball is, in fact, steam, then it wouldn't be all that heavy. Plus, if it a new type of water, one that is in and of itself less dense then normal water that would also lower the weight of the steamball.

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Seriously, you should forget your physics...

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Did you ever get a refund?

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I know it's undoubtely some fictional invention and story, or we would otherwise had heard about that ball before. However, on what physical theory is this invention based? It is hinted in the very beginning that water is kept at high pressure and needs not to be renewed in order to provide huge amounts of steam. We know it's hot steam because of two characters being burned by it, so I guess theres a temendous lot of "compressed" water inside that a simple heating mechanism could quickly blow out at high pressure.

the steam-balls are pure fiction. 'needs not to be renewed' is equivalent to 'perpetual motion' or 'something from nothing'. water is not very compressible, anyway. the steam-ball looked to have a capacity of one or two gallons at most ... not nearly enough to power ANYTHING for very long, no matter how slowly it was released.

it might not be necessary for the ball to have a heating mechanism. if the compressed water was released under enough pressure, it would emerge as vapor, anyway ...

What is unclear too is whether the three spheres "feed" the other contraptions at a distance, like the tanks and flying devices, or if its energy can solely be used in the internal pipes for the Tower's floating and operating machinery.

i don't see how the steam-balls could 'feed' other contraptions at a distance, but perhaps they are used to 'charge' some sort small mobile engine that is considerably less efficient than the steam-ball itself.

We must assume that most of the inventions in this film resort on steam's energy (including the boats), but there is no hint that smaller balls could exist for individual machinery and tanks...so I'm puzzled.

i got the impression that there were EXACTLY three steam-balls, and apparently there was not even a way for dr eddie to make any spares of any size. a lot of the story hinged on how valuable the steam-balls were. no one, not even stevenson, had the technology to make one.

however, i was able to relax and enjoy the story, without worrying too much about the physics :)

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In the sometimes annoying way I have of justifying "magic" technologies to myself, I decided that steam balls used heavy water (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_water). Since the father mentioned that the discovery of a new type of water made the steam ball possible, I think that this is a good conclusion to draw.

However, heavy water couldn't isn't radioactive and couldn't produce enough energy to heat water to the point where it could produce the pressure depicted in the film with some kind of fusion reaction involving the dueterium within its molecules. Such a fusion reaction is difficult for our present day technology, much less victorian science. There is always the possibility that the pressure was created because of heavy water's heigher density (it is .1076 g/cm^3 denser than ordinary water), but I don't have enough of a physics background to calculate whether or not this would create a significant pressure difference.

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My take:

I'd say that whatever the makeup of the steam balls, they were able to contain an absolutely ridiculous amount of pressure. So much so that, over the course of the movie, we never even got close to bleeding one dry. Remember, the steam castle was running on the pressure provided by the steam balls. Since they already contained adequate pressure, there was no need to use any external heating source. The whole point of a boiler in a steam engine is to heat water into vapor and increase pressure. Since the steam balls were already pressurized beyond belief, the use of a boiler would have been a redundancy. Thus, any venting that occurred within the castle was not hot. If anything, ice burns would be the end result (spray yourself with a can of compressed air and watch things get icy).

It's a phenomenon referred to as Latent Heat. As a gas decompresses it draws energy from its surroundings. Any "burns" that people suffered from the steam balls would be ice burns. Frostbite.

As for the smaller, individual engines... I'm guessing that they were either running on their own small, conventional steam power systems (heating element + boiler = pressurized water vapor), or they were using (as Ray did at one point) finite storage tanks that were previously pressurized by the steam balls. I'm leaning towards conventional engines, as a pressurized holding cell would quickly lose it's pressure and result in a uselessly short service time (the steamballs themselves being the only - and rather miraculous - exception).

There is one other exception I just thought of. Ray's escape suit seems to have been using a static, finite pressure source. It certainly seemed to lack a boiler or motor system of any sort. Meaning, it was either directly pressurized to a remarkable level by the steam castle, or was itself running on a steam ball. Whatever the case, it certainly seemed to run forever (as seen over the credits).

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The Steamballs are apparently just that: balls of ultra-pressurised steam. The idea is ridiculous for several reasons: in order to lift the entire Steam Castle with their released pressure alone for an extended period, they would have to each weigh somewhat more than it, so even if Ray's been necking Wheaties fifty times a day, there's no way he'd be able to pick one up. Secondly, there's the problem of the tiny valves being used [such as on Ray's improvised flying machine] to control a static pressure that would rival an atomic bomb if it were all released at once.

It seems from the tanks in Stephenson's lab that the Steamball is used to charge up much lower-pressure steam stores in individual machines, presumably rather like a power station charges a battery.

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can i just say at this point that steam boy is a cartoon.
mind you i always did wonder how roadrunner kept getting back up after being blown up / dropped from a great height etc???

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That was the coyote that would get blown up or dropped from a great height not roadrunner.

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can i just say at this point that steam boy is a cartoon.
mind you i always did wonder how roadrunner kept getting back up after being blown up / dropped from a great height etc???

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mind you i always did wonder how roadrunner kept getting back up after being blown up / dropped from a great height etc???
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Er..the Roadrunner NEVER got blown up or dropped from a great height. In fact the Road Runner remained unscathed through out every cartoon he was in.

It was Wyle E. Coyote who got blwn up, dropped or clobbered again and again when his ACME product refused to function as intended!

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Perhaps the steamball was a metaphor for zero-point energy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy

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It's not water, it was some other fluid they discovered in a deep, deep cavern somewhere. And no, there is no Zero-Point Energy science behind it either. The Steam Ball with the compressed liquid just contained a lot of power that's all. Like the splitting of the atom. Except non-radioactive.

For anyone whose taken a course on Thermodynamics, you would be familiar with the Ideal Gas Law: PV=nRT

Now, since we can assume that Volume, mol number n, and the gas constant R remains fixed, our two other variables can now come into play: Pressure and Temperature.

Pressure1 (P1) and Temperature1 (T1) will be the variables inside of the steam ball while P2 and T2, assumed at sea level atmospheric pressure and temperature, will be the variables outside of the steam ball:

P1, P2
T1, T2

Therefore our equation becomes:

(P1)/(T1) = (P2)/(T2)

and assume P2 = 1 atm (At sea level),

P1 = T1/T2

We know that T2 = 298 Kelvin at room temperature and P1 (The pressure inside of the Steam Ball) must be EXTREMELY high so we need P1 >> 1 atm, therefore:

T1 = T2*P1 = (298K)*(A number much greater than 1 atm)

This results in a temperature MUCH greater than T2, room temperature. This can be confirmed with boiling hot water: High pressure generally equals high temperature, and vice versa.

HOWEVER, the movie depicts the "gas" that was ejected to be a kind of liquid nitrogen, very cold, especially at the end of the film when Steam Castle/Tower came crashing down and instantly freezing all the water and water vapor around it. There are two assumptions that can be made from this observation: One, this is a substance with Latent Heat properties, similar to that of dry ice; an endothermic reaction occurs (It takes heat from its surrounding environment) as it transitions from solid to liquid to gas, or directly to gas. OR Two, the exact functions of the Steam Castle/Tower must employ some very low pressure vacuum pipes and tubes to run the entire machine therefore significantly lowering the temperature; this could make sense seeing that very high delivers of the fluid/gas, translated into mechanical power, could be possible to power the entire fortress.

So, is this technology physically possible? Maybe. Is it feasible for engineers to build? Not really. Hope that answers your question.

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I beleive Stephenson explicitly mentions that it's latent heat, stating something along the lines of 'when gas expands suddenly it cools, so everything freezes.'

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I would remind us all that it is not WATER, but water of 'exceptional purity'; in fact, part of the beginning was a quest to find said water....therefore, it must be that quality. I don't know if the idea was that the steam-balls were actually venting all of their water; the actual 'steam' is kept pressurized , and the heat is actually created by this pure water.
DISTILLED WATER will not boil in a MICROWAVE. This is because of the lack of impurities in that water. by maintaining high purity, the steamball is able to recycle 99% of this water and use the chemical reaction itself to generate heat, like a tractor that can create CORN then burn it as FUEL. (ethanol).

this is why it needs no 'boiler' or extra water...it does, however, eventually run down.

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That can't be; the Steamballs never get particularly hot during the course of the film, and are used without any external water source [which they'd need, if they were only a heat source] to put steam into devices like Stephenson's tanks. Ray's improvised flying machine also has no external water source, and must be directly powered by releasing the contents of the Steamball. The dialog also implies that a Steamball is essentially just a big magic ball of pressure.

Also, pure water doesn't cause any 'chemical reaction' to produce huge amounts of heat by itself. Neither is a tractor capable of internally converting harvested corn to ethanol with anything like the efficiency needed to keep itself running.

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"DISTILLED WATER will not boil in a MICROWAVE."

Uh.....yes it will.

Are people really that scientifically illiterate?

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Yeah...water so pure that it leaves stalactites behind it from all the dissolved limestone. [/sarcasm]

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LOL don't you get it, the steam ball is just his brass valve in his imagination

The part from when the box arrives is his imagination

That's why we see their house again at the end, it's broken because the family was broken when the men left/died

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Mabey the steam ball relys on some sort of Quantum science, by utilising the space in atoms and compressing them, you would be able to store massive amounts of matter. That or its some how a 4th dimensinal storage devise.


Lets hear it for nasa there the real heros.

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The balls contain a plot hole where all the gas is coming from.

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I like the idea of steam ball as steampunk battery to store energy but it was just too much in this movie. How about something less than flying castles. What is it with japanese and going over the top.

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You could easily calculate how much one of those balls would have to weigh at the very least if you consider it could lift an entire castle. You'd have to estimate the weight of the castle. Then you use the formula e = m*c*c (thank you einstein) and you'll see how much energy a certain mass would give you if you assume 100% efficiency (which is impossible, the fact that you can even hear the steam means some energy is used to create vibrations in the air thus causing sound). You also need to factor in earths gravity (9.8) thus calculating the amount of force (newton) needed to lift the castle.

1kg of anything contains 9*10^16joules or newton metres, meaning that it would generate a lift of around 9 billion tonnes in earth gravity(9*10^16 / 9.8) in other words WAY WAY WAY more than enough to lift that castle that high if you could direct all energy in that 1kg of mass towards creating lift (through steam in this case) with almost 100% efficiency.

So the ball does NOT have to be as heavy as the castle or even close to it to be able to lift it. Just look at hydrogen bombs, they can blow citys apart and the bomb itself doesn't weigh much at all relatively speaking and a hydrogen bomb is not even close to being 100% efficient. The only way we know of to transform matter into pure energy with 100% effiecency is by colliding matter with it's anti matter counterparts.

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the balls are filled with some fictional special kind of water that generates an almost infinite amount of steam when put under pressure

emphasis on the "fictional" part

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Um, this would work only if the Steamball was transitioning matter into pure energy which was then fed into some perfectly efficient magical flight system, which it isn't. It's releasing steam through vents to offset the weight of the castle with thrust. To hover on jets of steam, the system has to generate thrust equal to the castle's mass: to lift up, the thrust to weight ratio has to be greater than 1. Given the size of the castle and the fact that it's just bleeding pressure, the Steamball would have to be bleeding out hundreds of thousands of tons of steam continuously.

In your claim, where is the steam supposed to have come from? If you use some reverse-entropy machine to transition your huge amount of energy back into steam, you get, um, a kilogram of matter again.

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