MovieChat Forums > Innocence (2004) Discussion > Did not enjoy at all

Did not enjoy at all

posted 17 years ago by rhashr
22 replies | jump to latest

I absolutely loved Ghost in the Shell (though I'am tourmented by the fact that my official DVD's sound is always out of synch), but I have to say that I really had a hard time watching this.

I think it was down to a few niggly things to start with, the intro music that was a slightly tweaked version of Kenji Kawai's 'making of a cyborg', I'd of preferred something completely new or the same track rather than this one.

The blatant exposition wound me up. For example, when Batou and Togusa are driving at the start and Togusa just randomly says "I know I can't replace the major" out of the blue just as an excuse to talk about her for our sake. Like I said, a niggly complaint. And the way the Major was randomly thrown in at the end, what do the fans want? A reunion? Go on then throw her into the final battle under the pretense of being Batou's 'guardian angel'. Didn't like that.

I think the main complaint is that they completely overkilled on the philosophy, characters just seemed to launch into massive ramblings. I was so happy when Togusa said "what the *beep* are you talking about?" to the forensic woman at the start after she'd gone on for about 5 minutes, just what I wanted to say. I don't know maybe this film needs to be watched a few times, I won't lie and say that I perfectly understood the original the first time.

Rant over. Animation is amazing though, I can't imagine how much painstaking labour those guys must of gone through. Once again though, prefer the original.

[–] ras_sham 17 years ago

i agree:
Animation/Graphics: Breath-Taking (!)
Plot: Slow, boring (the dog scenes. omg), pretentious(!), and way too much wannabe philosophy
Music: That awful electronic vibrato on the voice in the main theme annoyed the ***** out of me!

And a lot of 'constructed' events like the appearence of the major for ex.

[–] marinersfanfromny 17 years ago

I would have to agree with you guys. I am a big fan of Oshii, and I thought the first GITS was very unique. However this was one big mess. I doubt very much that most viewers understood most of the movie. Unless you watch many cyber punk movies. Plus a lot of the philosophy felt tacked on in order to deepen the meaning of the movie. Or perhaps all those inane lines were used to distract from the messy plot. Also, the first movie wasn't impossible to follow, and you start to absorb more after repeat viewings. I think the difference is that you actually want to watch the first again, but I know I wouldn't want to sit through the second more than once. Also I agree...the visuals were stunning. However this movie is proof positive that some anime cannot truly profit on beautiful animation alone. Angel's Egg is a good example to the contrary however. I think there was more true philosophy within the very little dialogue (and visuals) of Angel's Egg then in this entire movie.

[–] t_scorpius 16 years ago

Why bother Postin page long replies here if you DIDn't liked it. Period.

[–] ILoveAsianFilms 16 years ago

you're all complete fools

what kind of person says there is too much philosophy in a film called ghost in the shell?

the first film had oodles of the stuff, it was subtler and maybe took more of a back seat to the cyberpunk action, but it was this philosophy which MADE the film. without philosophy, the faculty to wonder, no one would ever have come up with this complex future reality. ghost in the shell the name suggests a lot of the "back seat" philosophy of the film, and although it was portrayed through a lot of violence it was still the main attraction for many viewers.

the second film diggs its heals in and gives us a lot more character development, which in my opinion is needed. it gives so much more insight into why the original was made. dives into asking these dificult questions without the fear of any idiots saying "what the funk, where's the violence" i think oshii took this route in story telling because he felt he had conveyed his ideas through too much action in the first one and needed to get his thoughts out there. he probably thought there would be limited complaints from fans of the first film because they had loved it so much.

i put this question to you, did you understand fully what the first film was about?

oh and do you know what philosophy is?

[–] At_The_Drive_In 16 years ago

I just watched this and man I know what you mean about the music. It was so irritating having a 'variation' of the original theme. It was just corny.

This philosophy stuff was just too much for my little brain.

Just doesn't compare to the first one. This one came across more like a TV episode.

[–] matt092007 16 years ago

sorry iloveasianfilms but i am going to have to disagree with what your said. Yes, the philosophy was what made the first GItS great. I am also glad that the second film delved more into the characters (which the first one lacked). Yet, the 2nd one really threw in a bunch of unnecessary philosophy. And yes, i did get the whole over all plot and point of the movie, and i can tell you that they didnt need half of the random philosophical sayings that the characters seemed to be so expert on. I found the first GItS to be philosophically deeper by far than the second film. I personally believe that the 2nd film was being pretentious at the highest level, by throwing in all the random quotes every 4 minutes. It just seemed like a poor attmept to try and make the film as philisopically deep as the first one. Contrary to your logic, i did not mind there not being as much action and yet i still didnt like the second film near as much as the first. oh and i will probably get crucified for saying this, but i did not like the animation that much in the second GItS. I think that, like the philosophy, the creators went on overkill. It was to obviously ocmputer animated at many parts. That clean, polished look of comp. animation kills me. It looked like that lame as$ AppleSeed movie. First one was much more subtle.

[–] chasingjb 16 years ago

One review on here noted, it was less of a Ghost in the Shell movie and more of an Oshii movie. He does the same with the first two Patlabor flicks and Stray Dog which all predate the original GITS. If you are familiar with his style, then the philosophical/slow-paced aspect of the sequel doesn't come as a surprise.

[–] At_The_Drive_In 15 years ago

Except the first two Patlabor movies were actually good.

[–] ShalanTD 15 years ago

what annoys more than anything on this site is people saying "Why bother Postin page long replies here if you DIDn't liked it". this is not a fan site for ghost in the shell it is a forum board where people discuss there views. you don't have to have liked the movie to have a view on it.

[–] t_scorpius 7 years ago

I agree.

When I first watched this movie, I was blown away. I think it was the animation or the artistic styling or the psychological revelation thing. I was intrigued, Deeply.

Maybe that's why I posted that comment; kinda white knighting my new found favourite movie. Looking back, for someone who loved "WWF/E" with a passion, I don't think you can expect a different response.

I rewatched a better quality print a few years later with high expectation and it disappointed. It was a forced/lackluster experience similar to what many others have posted here in detail.

Long story short, my apologies. To you, the OP and to anyone else who didn't like my comment.

[–] Derek_MacPhail 7 years ago

If the OP had just written one line saying "Didn't like this", there'd be replies attacking him, saying he should explain why he didn't like and probably recommending he stick to watching Michael Bay movies. ;)

[–] sgsawant 15 years ago

My thoughts exactly.

[–] rmpp 15 years ago

I agree with you. The first one was a good intelligent movie with great actions scenes and a very interesting story. In the second it seems that they just throw some Milton quotes and some random action stuff, some beautiful scenery (which is actually jaw dropping) and called it a movie.

[–] Mr_Megalomaneac 15 years ago

I agree, but the thing that annoyed me most about this movie was having to sit through basically the same exact scenes over and over again with almost no end in sight. When they finally got done with doing the scenes of them walking into the mansion and what not, I thought to myself, "Really? Are we actually going to get to continue on with the movie? Amazing!"

And on the philosophy... philosophy sucks. It really does. It's just a bunch of hypothetical bull crap without any need to truly back up the beliefs with reality. I've had enough courses of it to feel this way.

Though, I did like the first GitS movie, and the series when it mostly focused on 'The Laughing Man.'

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[–] BombayBadBoy 15 years ago

I absolutely loved Ghost In The Shell, still do. It's one of the few animes I have time for and I'd probably pt it in my top 10, otherwise I really I'm not a fan of them in general. Innocence however is just overlong ond overbloated. A lot of not much going on, like said already loads of tacked on philosophy that felt out of place and the general story just didn't feel all that strong. Saying that I did get a bit emotional when the Major disappeared

"And what am I supposed to do while you're on a yellow brick quest for a brain?"

[–] turinturambar30 15 years ago

I'm a big Shirow fan and I'm a big Oshii fan. While I thought the quote-offs between Batou and Togusa went into overkill mode, I found a lot of things to be enjoyable in the film, especially the multi-perspective scene between Batou, Togusa, and the doll (Kim?). I also liked the fact that Batou was so reserved; I feel his character says a lot without actually doing or saying much, especially at the end with the Major. Him NOT talking is pretty powerful, imo. Kind of like Klute on steroids :)

Having said all that, I totally understand when people say they can't stand this movie, as there isn't a whole lot of middle ground when it comes to Oshii.

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[–] bbanzai88 15 years ago

Much like The Matrix Reloaded, Ghost In The Shell: Innocence is just a mess; a pale shadow of it's predecessor. It lacks the fun and originality of the first and attempts to make up for it with characters droning on about the nature of reality and the human soul. A few minutes here or there can be interesting. A 2 hour dialogue punctuated with plot and a random action scene? No thanks.

I didn't mind the music too much as it was just a retread of GITS.

I found the animation to be spotty. I liked some of what I saw. The 2D animation was on the level. Some of the 3D animation meshed well with the 2D animation and some of it stuck out like a sore thumb. The unnecessary shot of the marketplace door opening, for example. It just stands out too much as not being part of the movie. This happens a lot in the movie and I found it very distracting.

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