MovieChat Forums > Mangal Pandey: The Rising (2005) Discussion > Gordon/Mangal Pandey friendship unrealis...

Gordon/Mangal Pandey friendship unrealistic


The story on Mangal Pandey just doesn’t have much material to work with. Instead, the film could have had a much broader scope – something like the "1857: The Rising", without Mangal.

The film covered all the factors that led to the dissatisfaction with the British. Yet, it could have concentrated a bit more on how the Brits annexed kingdoms with deceit and trickery.

It should also have concentrated on how Nana Sahib was cheated out of his pension by the Brits and how he sent Azimullah Khan to England to negotiate with Queen Victoria and how, on his way back, Khan saw the tattered British army in retreat after decisive defeat in Crimea.

The film erred in portaying Mangal Pandey was not hung promptly as the hangman ran away. Pandey was hung earlier than initially anticipated.

The movie unnecessarily got into all this Sati business.

Finally, I found it incredulous that Captain William Gordon should have taken a shine to Mangal. In know that a lot of British mercenaries were in the employ of the Maharajas, but an active captain in the British E.I. Company is unlikely to have sought close friendship with Mangal Pandey. That bit was highly fictional. I mean, it’s like these two guys going to Happy Hour. It never worked that way. There’s no way a white officer would have been buddy-buddy with a blackie. It just doesn’t happen.

Other than these points, I thought Aamir Khan was brilliant – as he always is.

Just another note: Here’s Brahmin soldier (Mangal Pandey) inspiring a war of independence, another Hindu (Nana Sahib) joins in; his trusted advisor was a well-educated Muslim (Azimullah Khan). They all go to a Muslim ex-Prince (Bahadur Shah Zafar) to be the rallying figure. Who then engineered the Hindu-Muslim rift? That should have been the focus of the movie. Or, maybe the next one?

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If it's a history lesson one is interested in then I guess one is bound to be dissapointed. The film was not meant to be a lesson in history, it was made more to entertain than to inform. However, it failed to entertain as well. It was pathetic to watch the otherwise brilliant Aamir wasted in a half baked and badly written role. The only silver lining was Toby Stephens, simply put, he was brilliant. He rose above the incoherent script, bad direction, jumpy editing (gosh the list goes on and on...) and delivered a knockout performance.

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There is a way that could have happened, and no doubt did. Plus he was a scottish catholic, allowing him to sympathise more, out of traditional hatred for the English.

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The 1857 war was fought under the umbrella of BahadurShah zafar as the Mughals were the last native (...???) rulers of the land. The war was joined by the Muslims because the projected ruler was a Muslim badshah and they had predicted that India will be back to Muslim rule again. Had the projected leader been nana saheb or Laxmibai it is doubtful that the Muslims would have joined the war. The British polity of DIVIDE & RULE was worked out after this war. Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, who was the advisor of Mughal King , later himself propagated the isolation of Muslims from Hindus in the freedom struggle. He was the first person to engineer the rift. The Non Cooperation movement was supported by Muslims because it was linked to their Khilafat movement otherwise there was no need for them to join.

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am i the only one who couldn't understand what toby stephen's was actually sayning? i know he tried hard, to learn a whole new language, but for the most part, i had no clue what he was talking about!!

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Ofcourse the freindship is possible, as you know Toby Stephen's character was a lower class british or scottish(forgot) and all of his life in India. I guess he could relate himself to mangal in that way, and not all white people were the same. Not a whole lot of you realize that it wasn't the British who screwed us, but us Indians ruined ourselves by fighting each other for more power and money, and Brits took advantage of that and fkucked us all for like more than 150 years.

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As the end credits roll there is mention of a William Gordon who was said to be sympathetic to Indians.Since limitid information material is available about Mangal Pandey,the makers have simply set the story during that period and for the purpose of drama,created a friendship between a British officer and his Indian subject--a sepoy in his regiment.
To me the film works as entertainment as well as history of the period.It is a far better film than many a regular Bollywood potboiler.Despite its flaws-- loose editing and direction--there is a sincerity in this sort of filmmaking.Most Indians may have rejected the film for various reasons,but to me it will remain a film I can watch again and again for various reasons--finely nuanced performances[Aamir Khan overcomes a poorly written role,while Toby Stephens excels],good photography,some good pieces of dialogue,an idea of the period,good sets,and last but not least the sadly underappreciated music.In case anyone thinks I'm off my rocker,understand that this film has its fans--just go to naachgaana.com and search.Check out related blogs esp that of qalandar,look up if you are interested ,film reviews of Bharadwaj Rangan[Indian Express] and Sudhish Kamath[The Hindu] or visit mikemarqusee.com and check out his review done in Aug2005--this film has its apologists/admirers.
If interested watch the double dvd version of the film.It's worth it,especially the deleted scenes and making.The dvd definitely shows the sincere effort that went into the making of this sadly debunked film.

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ukickmydawg wrote: "Of course the freindship is possible, as you know Toby Stephen's character was a lower class british or scottish(forgot) and all of his life in India. I guess he could relate himself to mangal in that way, and not all white people were the same."

Many of the British troops during the EIC days came from Ireland and Scotland. They would have had nothing in common with the Indian troops. That's one of the reasons for the mutiny -- that the Indian troops were treated shabbily.

I have read two books on Indian Mutiny: (1) Richard Collier, The Great Indian Mutiny and (2) Christopher Hibbert, "The Great Mutiny: India 1857."

There's no indication at all that lower-caste Irish or Scotts found common cause with the native Indians. Quite to the contary, the Irish and Scotts found a new lower rung to kick.

Although there were some British mercenaries that fought with the Rajas and Nawabs, I see no evidence there was a Capt. Gordon who sided with the Indians.

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The relationship between Gordon and Magal is adequately explained at the very beginning of the film. During the battle with the Afghans, Gordon is shot and Pandey -- wounded himself -- carries him to safety, saving his life. Caste/class notwithstanding, a guy pulls your fat from the fire like that and you can get to like him a LOT.

What I didn't understand -- owing to my limited knowledge of Indian culture -- is how a Brahmin came to be employed as a soldier in the first place. (At least during that period of history anyway.) My understanding was that they left that to the Kshatriyas and stuck to more "learned" pursuits. Perhaps someone can enlighten me on that one.

Also, at another point in the film, Gordon is subtly ridiculed by the senior English officers and Company officials because of his background and upbringing ("A damned Papist"). Not exactly the best way to win his friendship, though by itself not enough to make him turn on you. My best guess is that the writers were trying to point out that not ALL of the British were villains -- that they had their share of good guys too.

Historically accurate or not, it's an enjoyable film and far better than many I've seen with similar themes.

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I don't know. I had no trouble understanding Toby Stephens. And I thought the accent was kinda cute!

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English or Hindi?

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hey punky fish!!! He was speaking english with a scottish accent you moron, and when he speaking the other loangauge it had subtitles

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I neither agree nor disagree with you. However, I would like to say this.

This movie is a disgrace! Aamir Khan is a disgrace, Ketan Mehta is a disgrace, Farookh Dhondy is a disgrace and so is Ranjit Kapoor and everyone other person associated with this bloody thing is also a disgrace. Except Toby Stephens.

Why the hell do we want to know about our past? That too the past which can destroy friendships and relationships? Instead of portraying decent history Aamir and Ketan are destroying relations between Britishers and Indians. Think of the Indians in UK now. Do you think they would feel happy knowing that some of their close British friends' ancestors tortured THEIR ancestors? I think not! Aamir is reopening old wounds with his stupid movies like Lagaan and Mangal Pandey. And AR Rehman, for God's sake! Shut the *beep* up you old sod! His music is grating to the ears! Stick to south India where everyone is as mindless as you! Don't try to come into civilized society! You might just feel out of place!

RIght now when we should be forging international friendships, people like Ketan and Aamir come along and spoil things! You don't find British directors opening up old wounds of history, do you?

Personally,I find Britishers are great chaps once you get to know them. What is portrayed in this movie is the past. The very DISTANT past. Now is present. If either Aamir or Ketan have some personal vendetta then let them come out directly and say it! Don't make more "British Bashing" idiotic and silly films you old sods!

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Mate, there are loads of people born here in Britain who know that their ancestors were tortured by the British at some point (ask anyone of Irish or Scottish ancestry, for exmple!). In my own family it was less than a century ago. Yet I am British too, the third generation of my family to be born here. I doubt any of the Indians in the UK, whether Indian-born or first or second generation British born, are going to react particularly badly. Undoubtedly a generation or so further back than the period depicted in this film, their ancestors ran the risk of being picked on by other Indians - which in my mind is *worse*. Sensible people take pride in the achievements of their ancestors, not matter where they're from, but they don't let what happened to them turn them against the country where they and possibly their parents were born. What's the point of that? It's stupidity. And Indians have never seemed to me to be stupid. This movie won't kick of any ill-feeling between Britons and Indians. We're all part of the Commonwealth, after all!

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tanejad , its easy to blame the hindu-muslim split on the other party. the muslims of india were treated the same way as the hindus were by the english, so it is obvious they too wanted independence. The rebellion had been spraked by the british who covered their new bullets with pig fat and required that it be bitten before it was used. The consuming of pig flesh is a major sin in islam, so it is obvious that muslims had the same kind of anger as the hindus since both of their religous beliefs had been violated. also, the khilafat movement came many years after the rebellion of 1857. in fact,it was after the first world war.
The muslims made up a quarter of india's population, and rightly feared domination by the hindu majority. just look at the condition of muslims in india right now. they are the poorest, least-educated and most persecuted minorty.
Also, Indian Muslims played a major role in the independence movement. Men like Ashfaqullah Khan, Mualana Azad, and Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan all played an important role in the stuggle for independence.

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Muslims are the poorest, least educated and most persecuted because they themselves like to live that way.

Majority of illiterate muslims dont send their children to school, they prefer madarasses, infact the Congress favours muslims so much that had it been any other minority like christians, parsis they would have made very rapid progress.

The muslims are very much responsible for their situation because of their extremist views

and regarding to your concern on domination by hindus, I think they also deserve some period of domination since muslims ruled Northern India for almost 800 years which included tyrants like Aurangzeb.

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I agree there is no need of movies portaying racism, hatred and all that. Its not gonna do anybody no good

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"Khan saw the tattered British army in retreat after decisive defeat in Crimea".

The British were not decisively defeated in the Crimea, though they suffered a good deal through incompetent leadership.

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