MovieChat Forums > Ruang rak noi nid mahasan (2003) Discussion > Definitive mediocrity

Definitive mediocrity

posted 18 years ago by b1lskirnir
35 replies | jump to latest

Am I the only one who wasn't particularly impressed by this movie? To me, it just seemed like the director of cinematography just got a little too happy and decided to make a movie based entirely on pretty images and stereotypical indie film music. This movie takes every cliche of modern independent and foreign drama and overuses it ad nauseum. The lighting, the zombie-like acting, the long drawn out shots that supposedly have some insightful value into the psyche of the characters, the surrealism, the use of scenes that may or may not be real, and especially the music. While I will give it credit for being a sincere and honest film that has artistic purpose in mind, it's still very poorly constructed. When I heard him reading the story of "The Last Lizard" my cliche detector practically exploded. Why is Kenji so obsessed with suicide and disappointed with himself? Why is he obsessive-compulsive? Why is Noi angry with her sister? Why is she so unorganized? There was very little character development at all and when there was, it was too sudden (Kenji kicking his books down, etc.). A lot of the plot was also completely unnecessarily. I just felt like there was a complete lack of purpose to this movie and it didn't entertain me anymore than something out of a foreign soap opera.

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[–] kimshi42 18 years ago

Nid's sister slept with her boyfriend. And Noi is obviously just young and selfish. That's the only Q I can answer.

But I think there are some things that would be more apparent to Japanese viewers, like the Yakuza tattoos. I also think some of it wasn't meant to be figured out.

[–] cepooooo 18 years ago

Seems to me that you don't have much imagination...

[–] lastlizard 18 years ago

...or intuition...

[–] savage2202001 18 years ago

bl1skrnr, for someone who felt this movie was like a soap opera, you are pretty concerned with the background story of the characters. also, all of the questions you asked were answered in the film pretty obviously. noi is angry at her sister for sleeping with her boyfriend, for christs sake. she's unorganized because she's a pothead. kenji is obsessed with suicide and disappointed in himself because he did somthing that caused him to be on the run from the yakuza (failure in japan is highly frowned upon). you obviously didn't pay enough attention to this movie, which resulted in your ignorance of the characters and caused you to miss most if not all of the really great subtle delights that this film has to offer. go watch some television, and leave this film to those of us with attention spans.

[–] bruins2111 18 years ago

the plot was was very necessarily.

I don't know if any movie is really necessarily. But I like movies, and this one kept me interested all the way, and there was no predicting where it was going, and having seen it, it's hard to say where it went. Very interesting movie, pacewise and all.

[–] minnie_mie 18 years ago

I agree! But I still loved it lol

[–] good_sailor 18 years ago

There you have the very usual non-conformist; ready to attack everything is not able to understand... Probably you need to see other movies with a more flat argument, easy to digest. Surrealism and Magic Realism has been an element of a very fine branch of literature for a long time ago. I am very happy that new directors are incorporating it in these films, which are not directed to naive and mediocre audiences, of course.

[–] minititus 17 years ago

Well yeah the movie doesn't give you all the information you'd probably question bout them ... but still ... that's the magic of it. You get this odd feeling like floating, right after you watch the movie. I loved it. Perhaps my "suspension of disbelief" worked better cause I'm from a very different culture (Mexico)... don't know ... be happy, enjoy =)

[–] NostalgiaDrag 17 years ago

I find it a bit ridiculous that every person who posted dismissed the OP as an idiot. He has very good points and I completely agree with him. This was a huge let down, especially because of all the comparisons it supposedly had with Lost in Translation and films of Wong Kar-Wai. It was way too ambiguous for its own good. And believe me, I normally love ambiguity in films (some of my favorite films are George Washington, Broken Flowers, and Gummo for chrissakes!), but the ambiguity didn't really flow with the rhythm of the film and it resulted in seeming like it was poorly constructed. And I found the Yakuza subplot completely stupid. It's like the filmmaker couldn't decide whether he wanted to make an asian minimalist film or a brooding yakuza film so he made both.

And for an image-based film such as this, it doesn't help when it's shot on digital. I personally find digital filmmaking to look incredibly amateur and of "soap-opera" quality. Definitive mediocrity is dead right!

[–] ghiblimon 17 years ago

comparisons it "supposedly" had with Lost in Translation and Wong Kar-Wai?? wait, what comparisons?? was your remark based on actual film critic reviews saying this as such or simply your own hype of the film? because i find that Last Life is no where near in context to LIT other than the subtle-human-connection-between-two-initial-strangers aspect (and that's already stretching it). and assuming you're a Wong Kar-Wai fan, you'll know that Chris Doyle, the cinematographer for Last Life, has been Wong Kar-Wai's DP for a number of his previous films. and if you plain don't see the visual style he similarly utilizes in Last Life, then i'm sorry, you're blind.

and how is a film ever too ambiguous for its own good? did you think it was "too ambiguous" simply because you were confused the whole time and decided to dismiss the fact that many elements in this film are implied rather than explained? rather than ask me what those elements are i suggest you give the film a second viewing (or probably forth in your case) before critisizing on the aesthetic framework of the director's filmmaking decisions. do this and you'll get the answer to your "stupid yakuza subplot" remark. and please don't reference this film as a "brooding yakuza film." you want yakuza watch Takeshi Kitano's films. and that's good yakuza.

edit/
and by the way, this film was shot on 35mm color negative. not digital. geez, do a little research before sadly comparing the intentional soft quality and blown highlights, all rendered in post, to that of the poor characteristics of digital video. do this and you'll look less of an idiot.

[–] NostalgiaDrag 17 years ago

Well, I wasn't aware that I was a condescending jackass in my post, but I think now I will be.

First of all, don't even give me the "there is no similarity to Lost in Translation" bullsh!t. I was told this by many, MANY people. Needless to say, it doesn't even come close to LIT or WKW's movies. Secondly, I know it was shot by Chris Doyle, that's why I saw the f ucking movie in the first place. The visual style was nothing like the style in Wong Kar-Wai's, in fact, there was much left to be desired here. And on top of that, I know it's not shot on digital (I found out a little after I posted that here), but the reason I made that mistake is probably because the quality and fluidity of the camera is very uncanny to that of an XL-1 (I take that back, it's WORSE!). I don't know what film stock or filters they used, but the end product is ugly.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here, I must've seen a different movie. I normally dislike plots, especially multi-faceted plots, finding minimalism to be more appealing, but here a plot developed and it was ambiguous to the point of uninteresting. And I don't know if this was intentional or what, but the subtitles stopped about halfway through the film and the characters instead spoke in, what I think was supposed to be English (albeit very broken and indecypherable). Not that I'd imagine what they were saying was of much importance anyway, but I found myself to be increasingly distracted by its sloppy execution.

The only thing that confused me about the Yakuza subplot was why the filmmaker felt it was necessary to have at all. And what was with the sound effects? I'm normally not one to complain about bad effects, but the effects here were way too distracting. I couldn't take this movie seriously at all.

[–] ghiblimon 17 years ago

ok, hm where to start.

well the fact that you came into this movie with the impression that it had to live up to Lost in Translation was your mistake from the start. who cares if many many people told you this, Last Life (as with any film in general) should be respected in it's own artistic canvas, not with LIT's. don't get me wrong, i've been in love with LIT from the start, and it's one of my all-time fav films. but cmon, LIT and Last Life are two completely different films, both existing in their completely unique forms (use of tone and space being one of the main differences). i think that's the beauty with the subjectivity of the filmmaking process. and wait, why should Last Life even be concerned about coming close to LIT? for mainstream recognition? for Academy merited value? should this become the case, i think Last Life loses its purity.

and if you know Chris Doyle like you claim, you would've understood the visual choices he made in the creation of Last Life. obviously Doyle's style here is nothing like that of his work with Wong Kar-Wai, because Wong Kar-Wai takes a much different approach in comparison to Pen-Ek (i.e. this film vs. Chungking Express, Fallen Angels). so to put it plainly, for your sake, Kenji is empty, and to illustrate this his life is filled with desaturated colors (blues and grays). only when Noi enters his life do the saturated greens and yellows slowly start to penetrate their way into changing Kenji's heart. and wow, how you mistook this as a product of an xl-1 is beyond me.

my suggestion, lay off the crazy pills, stop working so hard labeling films before you see them, and enjoy them for what their truly worth. although apparently to me, it sounds like Last Life is more of a pet peeve for you now more than anything else. and well, i guess i can't help ya with that.

[–] Flabrezu 15 years ago

If you're calling this movie ugly, then clearly you must have gotten a horrible version of it. In what way was the plot so ridiculously ambiguous? It's pretty simple, other than the ending being open to interpretation.

The English is for the most part very easy to understand. Clearly you didn't follow the movie very well if you don't even know whether or not it was intentional. One is Japanese, the other Thai; they speak English the bridge the language gap.

...It's just part of the plot. I don't understand why you're questioning why it was in there. Bad effects? There weren't any, other than the gun shots and the car accident, which sounded totally normal. WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

[–] mac_alain 17 years ago

I find it a bit ridiculous that every person who posted dismissed the OP as an idiot.

What is OP, please?

[–] sophtwareslump 16 years ago

then keep watching lost in translation.

[–] bodie_11 16 years ago

I finally got round to watch this and definately felt it was an emperors new clothes movie.

The main defence and attack that people here are using is that people who dont like it dont understand or dont like different films, that somehow those people have a lack of insight, you cant really level any argument against those comments as they are just a polite way of saying "were idiots",

I really wanted to like this film, i love foreign films, i love minimalist films, but even the most surreal or strange film has some sort of a plot to anchor yourself into, honestly can anyone who defends this movie say that this film couldnt have been condensed into half the running time??

Kenjis acting was very sparse but ok, Noi's acting was pretty poor, she just moped around, she even took a hell of a beating from her thai boyfriend without resulting in a single bruise or cut!!

There was zero explanation for Kenjis psychotic behaviour, now that would be fine in a movie about serial killers but this was an attempt to delve into the minds of damaged people. The director attempted with Noi but just didnt bother with Kenji.

I think to have long pauses you really need the best actors in the world to hold a scene with no dialogue or sound for two or three minutes, i could watch Morgan Freeman doing that but these actors simply couldnt do it, mannequins would have sufficed,

Overall it was an attempt at something different but ultimately i belive a failure.

[–] cherubalways 17 years ago

Yet, you offer no alternative films of your own for our viewing? It's easy to criticize, hard to manifest my dear.

[–] ebossert 17 years ago

I agree with you. The emperor has no clothes. My review explains more thoroughly:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0345549/usercomments-32

If you want to see a great "arthouse" romance (that is slower than molasses in January) with great cinematography, sound, acting, and a script that took longer than 5 minutes to write, watch Lu Cha (aka Green Tea) (2003). That film runs circles around LLITU.

[–] IrohaUta 17 years ago

I read your review and found it to be too subjective.

"I'm not sure exactly how people fall in love – if love exists at all in this world – but I sure as hell know that it requires something special. This film trivializes it and turns it into something so inconsequential and easy to obtain that it effectively becomes a meaningless, petty incident."

You're not sure... but you're sure as hell. Every relationship starts differently. I think Noi's sister's death made her feel closer to Kenji because she didn't want to be alone ("Why did you leave me ? I don't want to be alone, I'm scared..."), not him doing the laundry. In the other hand, maybe Kenji was attracted by her spontaneity, both are so different, and it happens a lot in relationships, to fall for somebody whose personnality differs from yours.

Noi seems to like Kenji's calm composure, she feels safe with him, he's very shy and polite compared to her ex-boyfriend. He's very Japanese in his manners, always saying "Thank you", not answering embarrassing questions,... It must be exotic for a straight-forward Thai girl. Thus, somewhat appealing. You can see that she's at first annoyed, then amused.

" I've personally been searching my entire life for someone to care for."

Sorry you didn't found the perfect woman yet, but this has nothing to do with a critic. You're judging the movie based on your life alone here.

" It's nice to know that I can simply invite a girl to hang out for the weekend and do my laundry. I'll be married by the end of the month."

The laundry and washing-up scenes show that the two characters are somewhat complementary. She's messy and he has OCD about cleaning. But these events didn't make them fall in love. They just happened to be alone, she had lost her sister and he just didn't care about life. I guess physical attraction can help too.
I don't understand how you managed to watch this film three times and still missed obvious things like these... Give it a fourth chance.

[–] vapor_se 17 years ago

I was also disappointed by this movie. I was really looking forward to this since I heard a very positive review on tv on it a couple of months ago. I finally decided to buy it since you can't rent it here in Sweden when I read more positive reviews and comments on the movie. For example: on the swedish dvd-cover it says "So beautiful your heart hurts"

And sure, it is filled with some beautiful shots but the story is not really getting anywhere. There is no character development in the entire movie except that Noi and Kenji gets along with each other (which happens without conflict or struggle)

When the movie begun and you hear the narration from Kenjis character you feel that he is going to tell you a exciting story about what happened to him since he did not take his life but then the story just vanishes. Kenji is like an ultimate zombie through the movie and from the start he seems happy with being suicidal and having that obsessive compulsive disorder.

And I know now that the movie is filled with references to japanese and thai culture but am I really supposed to know and recognise these elements? I from northern Europe, I had no idea that the japanese are very polite or that the author of the childrens novel committed suicide. I liked the thing about Kenji liking the book the interesting titel and probably story too, something which he could probably relate to, but then he loses the book for a while and then nothing really happens.

What can I say.., I was just really disappointed. I partially blame myself for watching it too late at night and maybe being naive about the extreme hype. But to be honest I thought it was really boring. I wish I could describe my discontent more detailed and explaining. But I'll just say that I thought it was boring, really really boring.

[–] IrohaUta 17 years ago

Some movies just don't fit to the basic "character development" and "exciting plot" thing, and from the first minutes of the movie you can tell that. Kenji's suicidal mood isn't meant to be taken seriously, it seems so trivial even to others : :"Suicide again ?". I liked this movie because it wasn't exciting but realistic in the way it deals with communication between two lonely people from different cultures.
Still, there is character development, although it's subtle. Kenji stops trying to commit suicide after a while, Noi manages to leave her pimp-like boyfriend, to be happy again after her sister's death... They want to meet again (at first she wanted him to get out from her house). What did you mean by character development anyway ? Would he turn confident and strong like Peter Parker in Spiderman ? Some people are just shy, geeky-like and they just stay like this.

I don't think Kenji is a zombie. He's a typical shy guy. Well, slighty nevrotic but typical. His nervous nods and smiles, his composure... As I said, it's typically Japanese. They use not to show their feelings, especially guys. You're not supposed to know it, but don't blame the movie. Look for information - well I supposed you did since you're there - and watch it again. This is why foreign movies are great. Because we get to learn about other cultures without moving from our seats.

You said :"but then he loses the book for a while and then nothing really happens. "

Doesn't that kind of things always happen in real life ? Random, trivial little things or persons which pass by without showing up again. You don't get to see these things in typical movies, there is meaning to everything and somehow it makes them predictable. That's why I love Wong Kar Wai's movies for instance, because they're trivial, almost plotless at first sight but carry great meaning. Same for this movie, but not at the same level.

I can understand you thought this movie to be boring. But it's because you were looking for an entertaining movie with basic storyline, action, and "character development".