Shocked and Disgusted - Comandante (2003) Discussion

[–] DirkDigglerStyle 15 years ago

Is it possible that Castro, like 99.99% of the humans in human history, is not 100% good or 100% evil? Is it possible that like 99.99% of people on earth, he has good traits and bad traits? Is it possible like 99.99% of people out there, sometimes good intentions go wrong? Only ignorant religious people in absolutes like good and evil, when in reality very few, if any, "purely good" or "purely evil" people exist.

Your father knew the law of the society he lived in and broke that law and was punished accordingly. He either did it because he was foolish or because he was trying to sacrifice part of his life to make a difference (from your post I'd gather it was the former and not the latter). You can stand up for something you believe in, but you have to be willing to pay the price for it. Otherwise, you obey the laws in the society you live in, or get out of that society.

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[–] O_L_D_B_O_Y 15 years ago

I've been trying to think of a long, extremely-well-thought-out response to that post, DirkDiggler, but you know what - your comments don't deserve my time. Your statement is so full of fascist ideals, it's unbelievable.

You're saying his father's punishment was reasonable? He doesn't support Communism so they lock him up and beat him for seven years? I'd like to see your optimism for a government after they kick your sorry ass into shape and throw you in a cell for a few years. But of course they wouldn't, cos you're willing to follow whatever garbage they ask you to swallow.

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[–] chus07 15 years ago

There are so many things wrong with your post Dirkdiggler that after reading it, a reasonable person would probably not be interested in talking to you anymore.

You take a man who was put in prison for not doing anything wrong and you tell him that he had it coming and that he is probably a fool....jesus

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[–] simenkummen 15 years ago

It is also possible that Castro is not directly responsible for everything that goes wrong in Cuba.
The original thread starter probably pictures Castro walking around with a stick and beat people personally.

there is such a thing called bureaucracy. At least if ur american you should be familiar with this by now...

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[–] simplemines 14 years ago

Wow. Just wow.

You're absolutely insane. Just completely insane.

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[–] ZildjianDFW 14 years ago

You manage to make one good point: human complexity. There's no such thing as pure good or pure evil, as far as people go. People are far too complex for that. Anyone who says Castro is evil incarnate isn't being very realistic. At some level, I'm sure Castro believes what he's doing is right. But the important thing to realize is, just because you believe something is right, doesn't make it right, and just because there's good in the worst of us doesn't dimish the bad things we do. I'm sure Hitler thought he was doing the right thing, but that doesn't change the fact that millions died as a result of his choices and actions. It is our actions that define us. Despite whatever nuances of goodness or badness that exist inside of us, it's which voice we choose to listen to that will determine what kind of person we are. If Castro represses dissent with imprisonment and even murder, as it seems likely he does, then that is wrong. The poster's father spoke out against injustice, and was punished by that injustice. Maybe he SHOULD'VE been more mindful of what the consequences of his actions should be, but rather than blame him and simply enable the Cuban communist government, as you seem content to do, I say we speak out against the injustice and hope for a day when Cuba becomes free.

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[–] audiovisuales-1 15 years ago

Quote: Anyone who supports or admires Castro is supporting brutal human rights violations.

Do you mind if I change a couple of words of your sentence? It would be like this:

Anyone who supports or admires the US is supporting brutal human rights violations (Maybe not that many in the US, but most of them around the whole world, and for more than 40 years). How does it sound?

I can understand you and feel sorry for your father, but from a Historical perspective, Castro's revolution has turned out to be the closest practice of the Communism ideals, since I don't think that USSR, China and others have been that close.

So, I agree that Cuba is a dictatorship, but so are our so-called democracies. We live with the illusion of being free, when our freedom is reduced to choose what to buy or where to spend the money we obtain from working at places which owners become richer and richer with our labor.

If I have to choose, I prefer Cuba than a capitalistic country.

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[–] PabloMM 15 years ago

There are people in jails for dissenting with their government in several so called "democracies" around the world, including the USA, you just choose not to find out about those stories. You're on the other side now, you conform with your government and your country and you choose not to care or find out about these cases.

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[–] chus07 15 years ago

Whaaaaaaat??? There are 0 people in the US that are in jail for saying they don´t support capitalism In fact Michael Moore has made a hit documentary about not supporting capitalism. Face it. It is true that the US have done plenty of evil in the world (Mcarthy, tuskegee, Pinochet....) but there is a lot more freedom there than in Cuba and what´s more important PEOPLE LIVE BETTER. Have you ever been to Cuba??? Have you seen how people lived in the USSR??? Democracy and a bit of capitalism at least is the only way.

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[–] wtamesty 14 years ago

It's amazing to listen to americans, where do that ppl come from. of course in the US ppl "live better" than in cuba (if living better means being able to buy sh$% u dont need), if u take the fact that the US is an capitalist empire. Of course you are free, there are tons of ppl in africa/asia doing the labor you dont get to do. As Lenin said "Freedom in capitalist society always remains about the same as it was in ancient Greek republics: Freedom for slave owners. ", and guess what... you are the slave owner, directly or indirectly.
Have you ever given 1 minute in your life to ask where the clothes you wear, most of the stuff you use comes from?.
Try blocking the US from the rest of the world ( like Cuba) and we'll see if you can manage all the exploited workers in the country. Besides there's no freedom in the USA, that's only what you have been told. The news you watch, the papers you read, its owned by the same ppl that rules you, it's not like you can say whatever you want on the tv, it's not like you can start a political party out of nothing (like the venezuelan MVR/PSUV) and win the elections in the US.
Have you looked around you? ppl in your country don't read the news mate!!!, they are more interested in fashion shows and flavor flav than in politics, while there is a whoooole militar empire taking over the world and forcing privatization through the so called western democracy.
The fact is that if you look at the big picture, we are all 1 big country (globalization), and in that world, there social classes where some social classes works under the worst conditions possible, under 1$ a day, and other classes lives from the the work of other ppl, that my friend is not democracy nor freedom. The true democracy would be the dictarorship of the proletariat where all citizen belongs to the same social class fullfilling a different role according to their potentials.

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[–] Like_Savages 14 years ago

you are my hero

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[–] ralph-135 15 years ago

I agree with Chus, what the hell are you talking about Pablo??? Can you give us a concrete example of when this happened, besides the alien and sedition act which shouldnt really count.

How do we choose not to find out about these stories? You dont think if someone was jailed for exercising their 1st amendment rights every news media org woould be all over the people responisble for jailing them??

You really must not be from the US

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[–] PabloMM 15 years ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it6utR1qcUo
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/10/05-6

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[–] chus07 15 years ago

This is wrong but it does not prove that the USA is the same as Cuba. Notice how this is an "exception". If not why would they talk about "normal phone calls" "normal visits"..... there is problably also a difference between the crimes BUT NOWAY I´M GOING THERE. This is wrong but is an exception and certainly a lot better than

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-qLxXu4fNo

On another note. You are reading all this bad stuff on the US in US NEWS. No news about Castro´s regime lack of freedom in Granma, are there?

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[–] wtamesty 14 years ago

well your story, that to tell you the truth doesn't I don't buy, could be true. Yes in the revolution many dissidents were attacked, not as many as the revolutionaries in Venezuela, Chile, Argentina,etc. or have you not seen about Honduras, oh ya you probly live in the US and dont know about Honduras. Besides if your dad was sent to a prison, was for doing a little more than saying that he didn't like communism, of course he won't tell you, becouse that story about the good guy being imprisoned just for complaining against the government is as false as saying that you have experienced what is to "really live in Cuba".
Take the venezuelan opposition for instance, they planned a coup d'etat and say they are being persecuted when they still have their channels and are still making a lot of money in the country at the expenses of the venezuelan ppl, criticizing 24 hours a day the government.
Did you know that Cuba has a lower criminality than in the US? meaning less ppl in jail.
Perhaps your family lost his bussines or some possesions in the revolution and don't like communism, too bad, working like a "guajiro" must be hell for your daddy I presume. Maybe you are not aware of the war against Cuba, maybe you are not aware of the conditions of health and education throughout latin america, and that Cuba despite the blockade has had many achievments in these areas.
Besides you should look at the imprisonment of black ppl in the US, and think again about political persecution.

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[–] chus07 14 years ago

The only argument you seem to have is "yeah we killed dissidents but more revolutionaries were killed around the world". Great argument.

Face it, today none of the countries that really matter in the world and are prosperous, believe that Castro and the Cuban revolution is something good that should be preserved. NOT EVEN LULA (a great leader by the way) who was a communist in his time.

I´m not a big US defender, they have done very bad things but it is undeniable that freedom is present there as is in the western european democracies. It wasn´t however in the Soviet Union (good luck defending that) and certainly in Cuba. If you want have the argument in terms of which kind of government is "less free" well I think even you know the answer.

By the way regarding Honduras, Obama supported Zelaya so it is perhaps you who have not read enough about the conflict.

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[–] JonLenin 14 years ago

When Professor Elias Entralgo from the University of Havana once invited Che Guevara to speak to his students and added that a payment of a specific sum would accompany the address, Che answered him in a polite but extremely curt letter:

"You and I have radical differences concerning the proper behaviour of a revolutionary leader.... I find it inadmissible that a Party or government figure be offered a monetary remuneration for any kind of work. As far as I personally am concerned, the most treasured of all payments which I have received is the right to belong to the Cuban people, a right which has no equivalent in pesos or centavos."

... meanwhile vapid self-serving right-wing clowns like Sarah Palin charge $ 150,000 to give a 1 hour speech !

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[–] pennylane153 13 years ago

You are so ignorant, It makes me sick. I am apalled and disguted by your comments. First of all, I am from venezuela, and I can relate to where the first post is coming from. Where the hell do you get off saying that the oposition in venezuela has its free channel or freedom of speech, when chavez has closed down hundreds of radio stations and tv channels, replacing them with communist brainwashing progamming. Where the hell do you get your information, from liberal *beep* stupid Che Guevara t-shirt wearing brainless zombies?. Did you know that more people are killed in Venezuela each year than in Irak or Kosovo?, Did you know, that unlike cuba it's not even from political crimes, but because there is no law, no policemen, because chavez seized their weapons and refuses to pay them with decent salaries?, so civillians have to stay locked insider their houses. Chavez supports FARC and ETA guerrillas both financially and politically as well, thus he's a indirect supporter of human rights violantions. Let me remind you that both these leftist extremist paramilitary groups kidnapp and torture innocent civillians and also plant bombs into trains and buildings. Don't you dare speak to me or anyone that has lived in this situation with your liberal leftist remarks, because it makes you sound ignorant and ridiculous.

So you think just because maybe her father owned a stupid piece of land or a small bussiness it justifies that the goverment takes it away and throws him into prison?. Do you realize that that kind of activity was very common among the nazis when they seized jewish owned properties. Most cuban dissidents living in america were not filthy rich as communists resented *beep* like to presume. They were mostly middle class intelectuals or college educated professionals that had to flee because they were going to be turned into indentured servants. My first grade teacher witnessed firsthand how her husband and father were killed by che guevara's troup because they needed to seize her land.

About the health issue, you are so downright idiotic, that I wish you could see for yourself the poor hygenic conditions the hospitals in cuba and venezuela are like. Do you know that cuba has to recycle needles, like homeless junkies do?, Do you know that 6 babies died in venezuela in one night because there was no oxygen or enough NIC-U beds to keep them alive? I know because I was there as a doctor. You don't see people arguing when holocaust survivors tell their horrible stories about the camps, nobody ever contradicts them. Why so you think you have the right to dismiss what this person is telling us about her family's suffering? Do you think you know better?, where you there? Who made you God?

Anyways oliver stone is a coke whore, the only reason he ever made this documentary, was because chavez funded this project on behalf of our people's money. PS: GO *beep* yourself. Communist pig

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[–] overmatik 13 years ago

Communist, Capitalism and Socialism etc... are all tools that the powerful people use to enforce their power over the common people. Castro leaded a just revolution but he wasn't able to take the next step which was turning Cuba into a democratic society. The complexity of the matter is too complex to discuss here.

Anyway, although it is not an easy task defending Cuba's regime, defending modern capitalist societies is not an easy task either. In America we have the right to say whatever we want, but what good does that make? The country is ruled by the Military/Financial System and fronted by two political parties which are absolutely the same thing. Look at the mess the US is now, and the guys who *beep* all up are free and still receiving their bonuses. Great democracy, right?

Oliver Stone at least has the courage to tackle these kind of issues while 90% of America is watching the Twilight movies and reading the The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo "books"...

-------------------------------- Movie critics are mostly crazy!

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[–] continuedcraig 12 years ago

Castro was going to do worse to New York City in 1962 than Osama bin Laden did on 9/11, but the FBI thwarted him:

A brief overview of Castro's terrorist plot in Manhattan is below: (mostly from http://americasforum.com/content/fidel-castros-hypocrisy-terrorism):

"On October 3, 1962, Castro sent one of his trusted men to New York on a key mission. The man chosen for the job was Roberto Santiesteban Casanova, who had just been appointed to a minor post at the Cuban mission to the United Nations. His diplomatic passport identified him as an `attaché' to the Cuban mission. Santiesteban's professional field, however, was not diplomacy. Quite the contrary, he was an expert in terrorist techniques, just graduated from a highly secret school of terrorism and subversion, not far from Havana.

"As soon as Santiesteban arrived in New York, he contacted the rest of his team, including José Gómez Abad and his wife Elsa, both attachés at the Cuban mission, and José García Orellana, a Cuban immigrant who ran a costume jewelry shop in Manhattan. FBI estimates of how many others were involved in the plot range from twenty-five to fifty people. The secret mission of the terrorist team was to accomplish Castro's orders to blow up a big portion of Manhattan, including the Statue of Liberty, Macy's, Gimbels, and Bloomingdale's, several subway stations, the 42nd street bus terminal and Grand Central station, as well as several oil refineries along the New Jersey shore, including the Humble Oil and Refining Company in Linden. To this effect they stored a huge cache of explosives at Garcia's shop.

"Soon the FBI got word of the terrorist plot and detained the main conspirators. Santiesteban was nabbed while walking down Riverside Drive. As the agents closed in, Santiesteban saw them and took off, while also jamming paper in his mouth and chewing furiously.

"But six FBI agents closed the ring and `triangulated' the suspect. Santiesteban fell, raging and cursing, flailing his arms and jabbing his elbows. They grabbed his arm and bent it behind his back just as he was reaching for his pistol."

A little perspective: For their March, 2004 Madrid subway blasts, all 10 of them, that killed and maimed almost 2,000 people, al-Qaida used a grand total of 100 kilos of TNT. Castro's agents planned to set off five times that explosive power in the three biggest department stores on earth, all packed to suffocation and pulsing with holiday cheer on the year’s biggest shopping day.

Read more detail of this plot in Humberto Fontova's book FIDEL: HOLLYWOOD'S FAVORITE TYRANT (among, of course, many other books and websites).

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