Helen of Troy
and
Troy
films comparrison
anyone else find it strange that
both films based on Homers Iliad
but they have very different storylines ?
both good films
but the same characters are so different have different motivations
i have only just recently watched Troy an I find this version rather inferior to helen of troy. apart from the innaccuracies such as Ajax's death which ws by hectors sword but he killed himself because the fight was broken up. Achilles was suppose to be killed before Troy was entered and Brisesis dies before Achilles which sparks his rage. The film concentrated too much on Achilles and makes him appear soft. Paris was far too weak for my liking, he had defeated others to make himself known to Priam, yet he runs away from a fight with Ajax. There seems not enough emphasis on Helen and I dont think she was attractive in the near goddess sense unlike in the alternative version. Overall I think this was just a film to get the audience to drool over Brad Pitt and Orlando Bloom and there was little substance to the dialogue.
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a doc abt helen? but who can say that she existed? or is that what the doc was about?
and briseis doesn't die before achilles, she is taken from him. after achilles' death (acc to the Iliad only mind you) briseis simply disappears from the story.
Did Helen really exist, did the Trojan war actually take place or is it all a fictitious story?
Al
No one knows, but some recent archeological discoveries seem to be of the city of Troy, so it seems it could have existed. How much of the other events are true is difficult to say.
Of course the story of Troy is a mythological story, so it's hard to say how much of it is fact and how much is fiction.
I would have to say the movie "Troy" should have been called "Achilles", or maybe more accurately "Brad". It only and obviously altered the story to feature Brad as much as possible.
Rather a strange choice for Brad Pitt, as he usually chooses films that are out of the ordinary, and often he plays odd characters, not 'pretty boy' types. That seemed to be more of a film only for fans of Brad Pitt.
what I enjoyed about this version was that Paris's actions seemed justified, unlike the paris played by orlando bloom I did not feel that he was responsible for the destruction of Troy. it is clearly explained that regardless of helen's situation agaememnon would wage war which seemed to place much less burden on paris and helen in this case.
on the other hand i liked that in 'Troy' achilles actions against hector were supported, he was not simply a blood thirsty maniac. I liked that you didn't know whether to 'root for' hector or achilles.
both had interesting approaches...strange that they would make two movies about the trojan war in such a short space of time though.
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hello! i just wanted to say, i liked bothh films... and yeah, the troy is more about achilles but it is because he and his rage are the basic things that helped greek to win the war. ( it not that i mind brad starring ^_^)
and helen of troy is really much more different than Homer's Illiad
because, Agamemnom raped Helne, Menelaj lived during the war, Achilles wasnt that scallwag and didnt kill hector on such a pathetic way....
but i liked both films... maybe more the troy :P
CraZyPLaNt
"Achilles wasnt that scallwag and didnt kill hector on such a pathetic way.... "
I see this posted a lot on both Helen of Troy and Troy forums, but as sad as it is to say, Hector's death really was that pathetic.
"Fear fell upon Hector as he beheld him (Achilles), and he dared not stay longer where he was but fled in dismay from before the gates, while Achilles darted after him at his utmost speed."
"As he (Hector) spoke he drew the keen blade that hung so great and strong by his side, and gathering himself together be sprang on Achilles like a soaring eagle which swoops down from the clouds on to some lamb or timid hare- even so did Hector brandish his sword and spring upon Achilles. Achilles mad with rage darted towards him, with his wondrous shield before his breast, and his gleaming helmet, made with four layers of metal, nodding fiercely forward. The thick tresses of gold wi which Vulcan had crested the helmet floated round it, and as the evening star that shines brighter than all others through the stillness of night, even such was the gleam of the spear which Achilles poised in his right hand, fraught with the death of noble Hector. He eyed his fair flesh over and over to see where he could best wound it, but all was protected by the goodly armour of which Hector had spoiled Patroclus after he had slain him, save only the throat where the collar-bones divide the neck from the shoulders, and this is a most deadly place: here then did Achilles strike him as he was coming on towards him, and the point of his spear went right through the fleshy part of the neck, but it did not sever his windpipe so that he could still speak."
Those are two quick snips from the Iliad, Book XXII. Hector runs away, Athena tricks him into fighting Achilles, they each throw spears at one another, Achilles' is retrieved by Athena, Hector charges, Achilles lunges. No more Hector. Not to heroic, honestly.
Player
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Hector may not 'win' once but he does not constantly 'lose' either until he is killed by Achilles. He fought Ajax to a draw, while wounded, and that battle was stopped by the gods (apparently took all day).
He fought Ajax again, and while did not wound his opponent, Ajax was forced to retreat.
In defense of the character (from the Iliad, not either movie) its been discussed that he might have been the only true 'hero' in the whole epic, he was just defending his homeland after all. He's the antithesis to Achilles, and the scene in Homer's epic where he bids farewell to his wife and child still makes me cry.
Dante puts Hector in Limbo, a pleasant and peaceful place for virutuous pagans, where as Achilles is condemned to the realm of sexual sinners, along with Paris and Helen.
I picked up Helen of Troy at the video shop and had a hard time convincing my wife to watch, as she said it was probably just junk like "Troy".
But this one seemed much more real without as many modernistic ideas and Hollywood catch phrases, "Immortality! It's yours!"
We remembered Paris in "Troy" as a bit of a dufus, even though he could shoot that bow, which ended up seeming a bit incongruous.
Well this TV movie had me really pleasantly surprised, none of that modern time cynicism that is all too aparent in the "Troy" movie, where you sense that the priests and council of Troy are not really believers in their own faith.
An excellent depiction of the odyssey with very few deviations from the story.
Mind you "Troy" was also a great movie if you disregard the misleading title.
bring a smile,
Both movies are (supposedly) based on the story found in Homer's Iliad, not The Odyssey.
Well i cant comment of Helen of Troy yet as i havent seren it. when it was on tv i saw couple seconds semmed boring so i ddint touch it however i wasnt interested in troy at the time, after seein the movie "Troy" i was fasicnated and got everything i could on the subject. Troy is an excellent film in my eyes while i did find it hard because i was rooting for achilles and the Trojans lol so i was torn and yea im a pitt fan but i like how the movie wasnt Directly about the Real events.... or so Homers explains... however you must understand the only records we have of the trojan war is Homer. and Homer himself is Greek and much like everyoen does they tend to glorify there home land so with that said who knows if he was just on the storytelling after all homer was a poet not a historian. Fact we have uncoverd since 1800's are a Troy is real, B there was a massive Greek invasion and C it was destroyed by a massive fire. at least 6 differant "troy" cities have been uncoverd and i do believe Troy IV is the Homic Troy.
moving back to the movie i thinkt he adaption of Agamenon as a tirant and "would have waged war on Troy no matter what helens status was" is absoultly true and wanted only "world" domination. ill go rent Helen of troy but i find hard time believeing in a "soft spot" in agamemnon.
in the Real story Paris is already married he leaves her for helen and she spits him with the goddess athena(i think its athena) and Paris after losing in battle from a poison spear or arrow at the end of war goes back into the hills for his ex wife to seek forgiveneses and to heal him because only she knew how... she refused and He died.
Everyone in life thinks about "what if..." the Movier Troy is bassiclly that story "What if paris lived..." or "what if achilles made it into Troy" so thats how you must loook at "Troy" anyone who thinks the movie is **** is narrowminded and has problems with good movies.
As long as you watch this movie, "for a movie" and not "for a historical document" you will enjoy the movie greatly.
I personally love that like "Immortality, take it its yours."
also i find myself yelling "Is there no one else?!!?" haha great fun.
i do plan on rentign helen of troy to see a differant perspective because im not narrowminded and can see things any way and still like it.
Now if you want to talk about bad movie lets talk abotu "Alexander" >.< ive never stopped a movie half way thru and i sure did that one... a topic for another time! thanks for listening.
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