MovieChat Forums > Ritânâ (2002) Discussion > Why in Asia is Style more important than...

Why in Asia is Style more important than Substance?!


No movie I think illustrates the example of Style over Substance moreso I think than than this movie. Its a common trait it seems amoung asian cinema to throw in flash with no substance at all. Yes I know Hollywood does this too, but it seems to me that 9/10 asian films that have great special FX have terrible writing and the same goes for so much Anime. (not knocking all asian films Oldboy is one of my favs!)

Ok first off, I cannot at all knock the direction, cinematography, and FX in this movie. They are all superb.

Now with that said. Everything else is pure DRECK! I mean its so bad you have to turn your brain off COMPLETELY. This movie has the cheesiest villian in it, I've ever seen.. Right up ther with the villain in Final Fantasy - Spirits Within.
"If I can't use this weapon, It's JUNK!"
like a child who tosses away a toy because he can't figure it out. Why did he ever expect to figure it out?.. ITS ALIEN! He gambled his whole organization on the hunch that he could just magically use an alien ship to take over the world. God what an idiot! And how many times did I count in this movie when Hero - Villain come face to face and don't shoot each other? About 5/6 times?! Then there's this great ability that nobody seems to realize they have. The hero's can slow down time, seemingly anytime they want. But they use this ability maybe 3 times in the whole movie, and use it in the dumbest ways I can imagine.
They didn't even try to write in a simple contrivance that explains the power might be limited in some way, or only had so much energy. No they just ignored all logic and just didn't use it. Like the characters just Forget they have this godly power, so we should forget about it too.
Then theres the Aliens which hardly serve any purpose in the whole movie accept to show us a few great transforming effects. And finally theres this ending with the girl disappearing. WHY? Oh.. she's going back into the future now. What a great time machine! It just knows that your job is complete so it starts slowing making you disappear and reappear in the future. How nice of it to do that! More like, your dissappearing because perhaps you erased your future self and altered your future so that you were never born. But hey go ahead and believe that the future is looking out for you always and now its programmed to bring you back safely.
This has got to be a show for young kids because Nobody over the age of 12 would not find this movie utterly rediculous.

God please teach film producers to look at hireing decent writers!
They are Much More Important to a good movie, than Director, Actor, FX!

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If you actually watched the film they can only use the slowing down device thing I think 3 times, maybe more I can't remember. It's now a power it's a device, Milly is given it when she escapes the future throught the time-machine.
Also Milly goes back to the future because she has changed the future therefore she never went back in time blah blah blah, it's the old paradox of time travel; it just hurts your head to try and figure it out.
With Returner you've just got to view it as it is. A Time-Travel Action Adventure story; it basically says in the genre that it's not going to be perfect.
Ok lets face it it's Sci-Fi, therefore it's pretty much *beep* but good *beep* Any film with a time machine in it is bound to be unbelieveable, because in my opinion time-travel is impossible.

As for you saying that special effects are taking over the writing I would like to recommend a few films for you:
Casshern
Brotherhood
Versus (The storyline is fairly silly, but the writing is still very clever and well done)
I can't think of anymore at the moment I was just looking at the DVD's I had next to my PC.

I'd class Returner as a film for I'd say 25 and below, because of the 15 rating. It's like Volcano High it's more of a teen kinda movie. It's all about the high-flying moves and bullet time. I think bullet time was a little overused but does it really matter all that much. I mean jesus look at the Matrix 2 what a load of rubbish that was, basically 2 hours or so of special-fx and hardly any progression in the story-line.

There are a lot of plot holes in the film; but no film about time-travel isn't going to have any. It's still better than half of the brainless crap you see coming out of Hollywood, that's why I started watching Asian cinema, it just outclasses Hollywood by far. And atleast they can think up of some new ideas without either copying ideas, re-hashing old ideas, or remaking old films.
Asian Cinema > Hollywood.

Personally special effects aren't everything. I'd rather watch a good Takeshi Kitano film than an over special effected film.
I loved Returner and would have loved to see it at the cinema; it was something a little differant than I'd normally watch.

Anyway atleast I got to watch Anne Suzuki for a good hour and a half ;D

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"As for you saying that special effects are taking over the writing I would like to recommend a few films for you:
Casshern"

That movie was utterly incomprehensible.

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Versus sucked balls. What a cheap useless movie. The movie poster looks cool though.

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What stood out for me was the barely there sign of believable acting between the leads. Yeah, there's a whole lot of wince inducing moments and so many times I wanted to bash the head of the director for it, but this is the first time I've ever seen in this genre where the acting is almost natural and believable.

You're absolutely correct, though Puppethead23, the film producers need to overhaul what they think is writing because they're heads are in some place that shouldn't be. Directors, actors, special effects do not mean anything without a strong screenplay. The Japanese don't understand this and that is why these movies in these genres are funny to me and I avoid ALWAYS.




What you see is not necessarily what you get,
Not trying is dying, keep trying unto death....

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I thought the screenplay was rather bad at times, and the action scenes weren't very well shot.
The acting felt very bland, esp. from the girl, "Milla".
The story was somewhat compelling though, but meh.

I began watching this thinking it would be in the lines of Equilibrium or Matrix - however that is really not the case, and it shouldn't be compared to either of them.
To be quite honest, after watching Returner I fail to see why people bring up the above mentioned movies at all, since the only thing they share with Returner is a protagonist in a trenchcoat and some slo-mo effects.

"Returner" is an OK way to kill an evening, a decent Sci-Fi all in all.

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Actually it says in the girls flashback when she is telling her story, that the device only has so many uses. The guy who gave it to the soldier who actually volenteered to go back told him when he gave it to him that it could only be used a few times, and when the girl wakes up in the guys apartment, she checks the read out on it and you can see the display for uses, 6 I think.

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The villain is insane. That's why he wasn't the real boss of their Triad, he was just a major player in the Triad's arm in Japan. However, he was not a good leader by any means--which is made obvious. The only reason his people seemed to follow him was from fear, or because they no longer wanted to work under the Chinese Triad (which I found odd, because they spoke Mandarin, while the "Triad" is from Hong Kong--maybe I'm ignorant about gangs from mainland China and Taiwan, though). Mizoguchi's insanity is both a good reason and a cheap excuse to explain why he does what he does; why he would plan such an idiotic coup d'etat.

The hero and villain did shoot at each other everytime they saw one another. The only most surprising moment was when they were literally a few feet apart, jumping/strafing across the open doorway (or archway). However, you are instantly shown Miyamoto reloading his gun--Miyamoto did not shoot because he had no bullets. Mizoguchi, on the other hand, is simply a psychopathic idiot. That's the only explanation. He arched his eyebrow and did not shoot, he was too busy thinking, "Hey, it's that punk from the other night."

As the others have said, the movie clearly states that you can only use the speed-enhancing device a few times. Of course, they used it more times than I thought they would. I actually expected them to try to use it and having it not work. Maybe that was in the plot outline, but they scrapped it for time--highly possible. Perhaps they were going to have Miyamoto try to use it at the end, but it doesn't work--then he's saved by the alien force field.

The aliens really didn't have much development in the movie. You see them as warmongering, and then you see their real reason for attacking the Earth. That's about it. They serve to show that humans are selfish power addicts, I suppose.

Milly disappears after they succeed in their mission because they successfully altered the future (significantly) by returning the alien child to his/her people; the war is averted. So, her going back in time never happened. However, if this is true, there is an inconsistency with her being able to go back to place the metal plate in Miyamoto's jacket.

Of course, this phenomenon can also be easily explained by a few lines of explanation. If the director/writers chose to do so, they could have made a number of reasonable excuses: (1) the time machine only used enough energy to send Milly back for a certain period of time (and it coincidentally wore off after she succeeded); (2) once the arm-band that sped them up (or slowed down time) ran out of energy, she would return to the future; (3) there is a third-party monitoring her activities (people, the time machine itself, God, or gods); (4) Milly is sent to limbo or an alternate universe where she retains her memories and eventually receives her improved time-travel devie.

Haha. I guess the excuses are limitless, but in the end, the movie didn't have an explanation, so whatever.

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The villain is insane. That's why he wasn't the real boss of their Triad, he was just a major player in the Triad's arm in Japan. However, he was not a good leader by any means--which is made obvious. The only reason his people seemed to follow him was from fear, or because they no longer wanted to work under the Chinese Triad (which I found odd, because they spoke Mandarin, while the "Triad" is from Hong Kong--maybe I'm ignorant about gangs from mainland China and Taiwan, though). Mizoguchi's insanity is both a good reason and a cheap excuse to explain why he does what he does; why he would plan such an idiotic coup d'etat.

The hero and villain did shoot at each other everytime they saw one another. The only most surprising moment was when they were literally a few feet apart, jumping/strafing across the open doorway (or archway). However, you are instantly shown Miyamoto reloading his gun--Miyamoto did not shoot because he had no bullets. Mizoguchi, on the other hand, is simply a psychopathic idiot. That's the only explanation. He arched his eyebrow and did not shoot, he was too busy thinking, "Hey, it's that punk from the other night."

As the others have said, the movie clearly states that you can only use the speed-enhancing device a few times. Of course, they used it more times than I thought they would. I actually expected them to try to use it and having it not work. Maybe that was in the plot outline, but they scrapped it for time--highly possible. Perhaps they were going to have Miyamoto try to use it at the end, but it doesn't work--then he's saved by the alien force field.

The aliens really didn't have much development in the movie. You see them as warmongering, and then you see their real reason for attacking the Earth. That's about it. They serve to show that humans are selfish power addicts, I suppose.

Milly disappears after they succeed in their mission because they successfully altered the future (significantly) by returning the alien child to his/her people; the war is averted. So, her going back in time never happened. However, if this is true, there is an inconsistency with her being able to go back to place the metal plate in Miyamoto's jacket.

Of course, this phenomenon can also be easily explained by a few lines of explanation. If the director/writers chose to do so, they could have made a number of reasonable excuses: (1) the time machine only used enough energy to send Milly back for a certain period of time (and it coincidentally wore off after she succeeded); (2) once the arm-band that sped them up (or slowed down time) ran out of energy, she would return to the future; (3) there is a third-party monitoring her activities (people, the time machine itself, God, or gods); (4) Milly is sent to limbo or an alternate universe where she retains her memories and eventually receives her improved time-travel devie.

Haha. I guess the excuses are limitless, but in the end, the movie didn't have an explanation, so whatever.


I agree with everything you described here. But as well, everything you described is like something you or I might write. And we are not writers. This is the problem that I brought up in this thread. Filmakers wanting to make a great movie and not concieving of the possibility they may need to hire a REAL writer to create the plot,characters,story. They just say "Heck with that, we'll wing that part of it." or.. "I got my own great idea!" which is pretty absurd since they can't write to a decent college paper much less a script. Leave the script writing to those that are professionals. Or at least someone who has exhimibited writing a really great script.

All too often priorities, not only in Asian films, seem to be like this.

#1 Budget
#2 Director
#3 Actors (Sometimes these this is #1)
#4 Script/Writer
#5 other stuff

I think the very best movies place #4 as top priority. Bad actors cant do too bad to ruin a movie with a great script, but not even the best actors can do much at all to save a movie with a terrible script.

But more often then not in Asian Cinema I see very Flashy movies with no attention on script seemingly except by amateurs, or rather people with no real writing experience. Much like in the video game industry.

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Why would a country only be importing their worst films then? I see alot of great films from France, Germany, Poland, and Spain. Although Ill admit that Old Boy was the best film Id seen in ages. I also like Stephen Chow movies. The Warlords was also magnificent!

I just bring up Asian Cinema mostly because I'd rank the directors there as being
among the best in the world. A great many in fact. And the quantity of films made there is quite huge compared to any country outside America. We should see alot more great films comming out of the east, or at least making a blip on the world radar.

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You are mistaken. It concerns 9/10 Hollycrap films, not Asian.

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