Almost everything about this movie, except the plot, is a complete and total rip-off from The Matrix. First off, the whole dodging bullets thing, and him saying "I can see the bullets." Then, the main character wearing the exact same clothes as Neo. And finally, the shot near the end of the movie which is a birds-eye-view of a body laying on the ground and the rain is coming straight down. It felt like every other thing I was watching came directly from The Matrix.
shareAnd I felt like everything from The Matrix is directly coming from other (Japanese/Asia) Movies...
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'It felt like every other thing I was watching came directly from The Matrix...'
When I watched The Matrix it felt like every other thing I was watching came directly from Ghost In The Shell!
And to add that fact- The Matrix creators ripped-off so much of the plot and visual concepts to 'Ghost In The Shell' it was quite laughable. So if were talking about 'ripping-off'- The Matrix isn't so innocent either! I believe plot-snatching is far worse then some actor having a certain type of wardrobe that reminds people of a certain film character...
'Then, the main character wearing the exact same clothes as Neo...'
Sorry to burst your Matrix bubble, but Keanu's trenchcoat was no wear near leather! I would say Kaneshiro's coat was more along the lines of Wesley Snipes' Blade and Brandon Lee's Eric Draven.
That being said, it's pathetic nowadays... no one can wear a trenchcoat in a film anymore after The Matrix came out, because everyone assumes it's a 'Matrix-rip-off' (example: Kate Beckinsale in Underworld- it was about VAMPIRES for christsakes!). Sorry, but the Matrix creators did not invent long coats! Sure it made them popular (even i'll admit that- painfully), but by no means is it something that BELONGS and should be credited to the costume designers of The Matrix. IT'S JUST A DAMN COAT! big deal!
I apologize for sounding harsh, but it bugs me when little Matrix fans come on to other movie boards and defend it (for whatever reasons- clothes, scenes, plot) like it's an original piece of art every other action film rips off from.
Purely original films are a rarity these days...
Believe In Angels
Ah goodness! it's posts like nuttyspams, that make The Matrix one of the most overrated action films ever to come out of the farthole of Hollywood. The Matrix franchise borrowed so much from ohter mediums (mainly japanese anime), I think it's not such a big deal that other films are now borrowing from it! Remember folks.... WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND.
About the trenchcoat ordeal, I remember this one really clueless foul posting on a Sci-fi film messageboard and saying: "Last night on TBS I was watching this film with this guy that had a painted face, and he was dresed just like Neo! and there's a scene where he does the jumping from building to building run like Trinity! That film totally was a rip-off of The Matrix, except it had more of a goth-like tone!"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! ROALMFAO! man, I never laughed so hard in my life! that guy's stupidity was genius! He even deleted his post after everyone told him it was The Crow, which came out in 1994!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... that's just classic.
I totally agree with the Matrix being overrated. Asian films American films nothing is original just different interpretations of stories for film and animation.
Also these new American remakes of asian horror etc.. really don't need to be done except american audiences will never get used to subbed or dubbed movies.. Although in usual cases most of the films are produced by the orignal asian production teams and they are making loads off the remakes..
Anyway off tangent back to my comment..
Matrix 2 is something I went to the movies to see all excited about. I admit I like seeing real life special effects that they only could produce in anime and cgi. Anyway it was 30 minutes of bad friggin dancing that I will never get over. Not only did it have nothing to do with the plot but it was so boring I fell asleep!!! I haven't fell asleep in the movies since I was a toddler!
Plus the story line for THE RETURNER can you say the original Terminator. Killer futuristic technology wants to kill off everyone, so someone goes back in time to stop it. >>> Its just what it is not bad not good just there.
Anyway if you guys are going to stop enjoying a movie cause it seems inspired by another media outlet save yourself the 7$ and wait till it comes on cable or video.
REad Anita Blake? Dont have the book.. I will email it to you!!!
The Columbine Killers also made trenchcoats popular.
shareIt'd be nice if people did their research instead of just blaming movies from, say, 1994 that they 'ripped off' a movie that came out in 1999/2000. I'm sure trench coats existed before The Matrix or A Better Tomorrow! The Matrix doesn't own a damn thing because just about everything in it has been done/seen before. Bullet time, movies like Full Contact (1992) did it first. Slow-motion, flying around doing stylized tricks during gunfights, John Woo did it first, and maybe people did it before John Woo. Etc. etc. etc.
Then again a lot of people are idiots.
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While I was watching this movie I thought "This what would happen if Terminator, E.T and Leon/The Professional all got together and had some mutant baby"
I noted the use of bullet-time, but only to remark to my buddy that in western films they only ever do it exactly like in The Matrix; everything slowed down. Here the 'accelerated' person moved normally with everything else in slow-mo. I thought it was an inventive twist, and the only way to really show what it would be like to use the accelerator device. But I NEVER thought 'Matrix Rip-off'.
Anybody else see Leon/The Professional here? The assassin/little girl relationship aside, Mizoguchi was so much like the Gary Oldman cop character...
And the Mothership kinda reminded me of the ship from The Abyss, speaking of Mr.Cameron...
Hehe, the main poster reminds me of all the people that complained when Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon came out and began screaming that the rope-work was a rip-off of the Matrix... Sigh.
shareYou're insulting what Takeshi Kaneshiro was wearing in the movie? I love The Matrix, and I do think it is better than Returner, but my God. Keanu Reeves did not invent trench coats.
And, who cares if some of the action scenes are similar to that of The Matrix. A lot of movies did try to re-do The Matrix, but The Matrix isn't the God of action movies, so get over it.
I died then I thought of you and came back to life.
How can you think if you're dead?
The matrix's clothing was heavily inspired by John Woo's a Better Tomorrow
share[deleted]
"The matrix's clothing was heavily inspired by John Woo's a Better Tomorrow"
That´s exactly what I thought when I read some of the posts above. But it didn´t only "inspire" the clothes in the Matrix; The Matrix tries to copy movies like that of John Woo or Ringo Lam, only that the actors i the Matrix are ridiculous compared to Chow Yun-Fat and others. But anyway. The bullet-time is a lot older then the Matrix. Watch some old hk-movies, even in the 80s they used bullet-time.
back to topic: I think "Returner" is far better then the Matrix, because it has better actors (Anne Suzuki is great and Takeshi Kaneshiro is far cooler then that non-talented Keanu Reeves), the plot is a lot more intelligent etc.
And the only movie here that rips-off other movies is the Matrix!
Ringo Lams film Full OCntact did. you are correct.
AND
History
Long before the emergence of a technology permitting a live-action application, bullet-time as a concept was frequently developed in cel animation. One of the earliest examples is the shot at the end of the title sequence for the late-sixties japanese animated series Speed Racer: as Speed leaps from the Mach 5, he freezes in mid-jump, and then the camera does an arc shot from top to sideways. The most renowned anime example can be found in the cult classic Akira. In one scene, the telekinetically inclined antagonist, Tetsuo, dodges bullets as a camera orbits around him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullet_time
First off, I don't see how time travel and alien invasion has anything to do with the Matrix. Secondly, Hirata and Yamazaki started working on the screenplay for "Returner," or "Returnaa," long before The Wachowski brothers started on "The Matrix." This means that if in fact one ripped off the other, "The Matrix" was the perpetrator and "Returner" was the victim.
shareLook, the Matrix is the only sci-fi movie to ever be original. When will you people realize this, even things that came out or were concieved before The Matrix's release are ripping it off! Even books like Neuromancer and Snow Crash are just GIANT Matrix rip-offs! Can't you people see that The Matrix is the only original entertainment product to ever come out in the history of entertainment?
"Fear is for the enemy. Fear and bullets."
No offense Daelock, but if you think the Matrix is original, well...I don't know what to say to you. Isaac Asimov wrote about alien invasions, foreign worlds and dementions, robot intelligence, etc. before the Wachowski Bros. were even born. Also, bullet dodging, swordplay, and kung fu action originated in old martial arts flicks. If there is one film that can be identifed as a rip off, its the Matrix.
"...Oda..."
Uh... Nagamasa_Azai... I believe Daelock's comment is what they call sarcasm...
shareNo, i think daeloc just didnt know what they were talking about
"...Oda..."
Daeloc went out of his way to mention cyberpunk novels that were published years before the Matrix came out in theaters. It's meant to be a hint that he was being sarcastic. I'd say he knows what he's talking about.
shareWell, i guess, all in all, Returner is a pretty good film and shows off that you can still make good movies paying homage to original content and being original at the same time, without being rip-off. I for example, like very much the "non-cable" action of Equilibrium, or the really really good Gong Fu.
shareThis movie is nothing like The Matrix.
I don't see why people are even comparing the two... aside from a couple little nods they give (like bullet time which YES, it was a Matrix original - oh no, something original in the matrix?)
Returner is a good movie. Wasting all this time arguing about The Matrix will lead people to believe its some sort of weak ripoff like "Equilibrium" (what a pile that movie was)
And whats with all the hatred for the Matrix? Is this just the rebellious minds of teenagers who want to hate everything that is 'cool' or something? The Matrix was a GREAT movie, and it raised the bar for all action movies that followed it. If nothing else, you can thank the people who made it for waking up Hollywood a little and telling them if you want to make a good action movie... it can't completely lack story, character development, and mystery.
So The Matrix wasn't original... well... its been the most copied movie I've ever seen. You know how they say, Imitation is the best form of flattery. Obviously a lot of people out there thought it was a good movie... and 50 million Elvis fans can't be wrong.
History
Long before the emergence of a technology permitting a live-action application, bullet-time as a concept was frequently developed in cel animation. One of the earliest examples is the shot at the end of the title sequence for the late-sixties japanese animated series Speed Racer: as Speed leaps from the Mach 5, he freezes in mid-jump, and then the camera does an arc shot from top to sideways. The most renowned anime example can be found in the cult classic Akira. In one scene, the telekinetically inclined antagonist, Tetsuo, dodges bullets as a camera orbits around him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullet_time
Ummm.... dood... bullet time wasn't original in the matrix. Turns out, it wasn't even the first live action film. Hong Kong beat that in the 80s.
It WAS, however, the first movie mass-sold in the US with bullet time.
And yeah, while not original, the Matrix was entertaining... at least, the first one was. Served as a good stand-alone movie.
Though, personally, I liked both of them, but Takeshi Kaneshiro totally looked better...
I mean, he's certainly on my list of "people I'd murder to look like".
But you didn't hear that.
Anyway, Returner wasn't a ripoff of the Matrix, plain and simple. As a matter of fact, it's not really a ripoff of anything, because slow motion camera pans (aka, what Matrix fans would obsessively call Bullet Time) are such a big part of the movie-anime industry in Japan.
you do know that there is not one single original thing in "The Matrix"?
shareNevermind the lack of originality in the Matrix, how is Equilibrium a ripoff of it?? Cause the main character uses two pistols?
Jon who? Jon Woo! Look him up if you really think Equilibrium "rips off" the Matrix.
And I don't think it's just silly rebellion, I think it's more everyone's become disillusioned with what they thought was such a wildly original idea, and it turned out to just be a massive ripoff of other concepts. Everything from the idea of the machines rebelling (Terminator 2 immediately comes to mind) to the philosophy (most of which was Plato, in fact the entire movie can be summed up as a retelling of the Metaphor of the Cave). The fight scenes WERE right out of a Hong Kong gun ballet and well, I could go on, but what's the point? And incidentally teenagers made up and make up most of the fanbase.
"Oh yeah?! I'll buy you yesterday!"
-Gabe
ahh this is the forum for Returner... not equilibrium, which is also a movie that is far better than the matrix.
sharematrix and allegory of the cave... finally someone mentioned that :)
daelock, you're one damn smart being !!!
1: this movie never tried to be original, just entertaining, which it was.
2: matrix is not original either, we cant help it if your part of the generation that ONLY knows the matrix, has a pretty narrow range of media that you view, and attribute everything to the matrix films, but if your going to pick on movies for doing things done in the matrix, youll have to do the same thing for all the ideas that the matrix 'borrowed'.
Belief in a supernatural source of evil is unnecessary -We alone are capable of every wickedness
Couldn't agree more. To treat the Matrix as this font of originality from which all movies drink is absurd and wildly inaccurate. The Wachowskis themselves proudly say most of the style comes from anime. They don't so proudly admit where they got their "other" inspirations, but to those who think it's soooo original, look up the genre "cyberpunk" on Amazon.com in the BOOK section(remember books?) You'll be unpleasantly surprised.
Where does that quote in your signature come from klauke? It sounds familiar and it sounds awesome.
"Oh yeah?! I'll buy you yesterday!"
-Gabe