too bad the movie didn't even touch on this. He was
so powerful and skilled that he was banned from every
casino in Vegas. Poker is pure luck, but he had
a skill the skill to read others perfectly. The guy
who played Stu was seriously bad though.
michael imperioli was great in that film. How can you see he was bad?
He was a master in Gin Rummy more so then poker or Blackjack
Stu was great at blackjack, and poker, but gin rummy is the game in which Stu will be remembered as the best ever, no debate. All of these games involve both luck and skill, however gin rummy is the game in which you can eliminate the luck factor the most. It is amazing that Stu could call out the remaining cards in a blackjack deck after being asked to leave by a casino manager, but this is nothing next to the feat of forcasting another players hand card for card at the final tabke of a big gin rummy tournament. Although his skills in blackjack and poker are legendary, the movie should have focused on his skills in gin rummy, this is the game in which there has never been a player in the same universe as him as far as talent goes.
Yeah, Gin Rummy was his speciality, he was playing a local Gin-Rummy Tournament at the age of 10, and he won it!
He also said(Quote):
"Some day, I suppose it's possible for someone to be a better No Limit Hold'em player than me. I doubt it, but it could happen. But, I swear to you, I don't see how anyone could ever play gin better than me."
And for you who says poker is pure luck, i imagine you don't have a clue what you are talking about?
It's even worse than saying "Boxing is all about strength". Holdem is a combination with strategy, odds, reads, table-image, management, position, and so on.
Odds are not equal to luck. Good pokerplayer, that makes a living from playing poker, estimate the pot-odds, and the implied odds in every pot they enter.
Pot odds are the odds you have to call the pot, lets say the pot is 90 dollars, the opponent bets 10. then the pot is 100, and you must pay 10 to call his bet. That makes the pot odds 10/1 (which is very good by the way).
Implied odds is the expectation of how big the pot is going to be, and the expectation of the size of the next bet. In Texas Hold'em there are 4 betting rounds every hand; Preflop, flop, turn, river. Preflop is before any cards are turned at the table, the flop is the first 3 cards, turn is the fourth, and river is the fifth.
So to estimate the implied odds;
lets say one player bets 10 preflop, you call, so the pot is 20. after the flop he bets 20, and the pot becomes 40, you call and the pot is 60, and the expectation of the pot will be, on turn: 120 more (60x2), so the pot is now 180. On the river the pot will be 180x2 + 180 = $ 540
Proffessional pokerplayers that uses poker as an income source, use these odds. They have they're strategy, and they estimate their coming income by statistics of their past income.
Ok I could go on further but the point is; Poker is far from a game of luck.
VERY far
He was world's greatest Gin Rummy player, but not at the young age some claim. He was tutored and trained by a guy named Vic Romano, who developed him into top player over a period of about 5 years.
Ungar was good player as a kid, but games he plaued in were with old lady's and other teens. When he entered into bigger games at age 16 or 17, he would often lose at Rummy, Pinnochle, and other games. He became a monster player in 177 or so, when he was 24. By 1979 he could no tget anyone to play him Gin Rmmy in Vegas. This included players from all over world who would come into Vegas for big games. He beat them all. People can debate his poker status, but not his Gin Rummy status. But who would want to see a movie about Gin Rummy games?
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was gonna make the point about Gin myself. But to say poker is all luck....Doh...some people eh?
shareIf it was all luck same top players would not still be around. Ungar also won 17 years apart, in 2 different eras. There is some luck, but best win more often, as luck evens out in long run and talent rises to the top.
The movie was awful though, very innacurate.
People that call poker "luck" just aren't very good poker players.
The true test is "Name the top 20..."
Name the top 20 roulette players in the world.... you can't. it's luck.
Name the top 20 slots players in the world ... you can't. it's luck.
Name the top 20 football players in the world... easy.
Name the top 20 basketball players in the world... easy.
Name the top 20 poker players in the world... easy.
Name the top 20 Craps players in the world... you can't it's luck.
See the pattern?
Texas hold 'em isn't about luck at all. Sure it helps but it's more about how you can manipulate people at the table. Good players can play a hand without even lookin at their cards and win. You can decide with wich hand you wanna play, and play as if you'd have it.
shareFreeze, you're an idiot. Blackjack is pure luck unless you can count cards, which is illegal now. Poker is I would say 85% skill, 15% luck. Dumbass.
shareCounting Cards isn't illegal. Shows what you know about gambling...
shareCounting cards in in no way illegal, but it is frowned upon by the casinos. It isn't cheating, because you are in no way manipulating the deck or cards. It is purely mathematical. If you are caught cheating in a casino, you can be arrested. but if you are suspected of counting cards, the worst that can happen is they will ask you to leave. They have the right to refuse service to anyone. And if you are good a card counting, you do have an advantage over the house. The casinos are scared that you will cost them too much money.
shareI have plenty other things to do besides get on here and make stuff up, so take this however you choose:
My Father-in-Law played a handful of times at tables (holdem) with Ungar and has two pictures (which made me really feel bad for ol Stu) to prove it. Anyhow, my FIL said that in his prime a lot of people just wanted to play against him and didn't mind losing whatever it cost. He said sometimes Stu would just wipe them out, and other times he would just literally mess with them and degrade them horribly. He said on one occasion he picked a guy out at the table and said "leave my casino" which started a mini battle. At this point my FIL and two others let them play head to head and things got really hot. Stu lost, won, lost, won, as head to head goes. But a bit into this match as the crowd built, a guy Stu once lived with watching alongside said to my FIL and a couple others, "Watch what he's about to do." He said Stu literally controlled every hand, keeping this sap at the table for 40 minutes before finally saying: "Okay this isn't moving old man. I bet you 20 thousand dollars straight up that I beat you next 5 hands in a row." Anyone who knows holdem, in a headsup scenario would know this is pretty crazy, all the guy has to do is catch one hand out of FIVE. The guy said yes immediately, and Stu leaned back behind his stack and took the next 5 hands straight. They continued betting as they normally would alongside the 20k bet, and that's when my FIL realized with a few others what Stu had done. He had mathmatically figured out this guys pattern of betting in 11 hands of heads up, and set the bait. The 5th hand Stu took down the guy had already realized what happened. Stu took every dollar he had. My FIL said even while pulling this guys bankroll over he made another gay slur towards him (guy was gay apparently). Stu, a Mozart, a Picasso, a Fischer. F typing this much ever again, poker fans can appreciate it though. peace. still don't beleive me i can email you grainy pics.
Awesome post. Just like lots of the other stories I heard. A true classic.
shareCounting cards is not illegal
share