MovieChat Forums > Les invasions barbares (2004) Discussion > What is this movie trying to say?

What is this movie trying to say?


What was the "point" of the movie; what was it trying to say?

Socialized medicine in Canada is a failure.

You can not buy happiness or friends.

Cocaine is better medicine than anything the medical field can offer.

If you need something from Government or Labor Unions you can buy it.

Everything is broke and cannot be fixed.

All of the above.

I am a happy American. I have the best health care in the world.

I am a capitalist I am not rich; being so is not important for me.

I am a Christian. I know the answer.

I am more interested in loving and giving than getting.

All is well with me and my soul.

I do not relate to the characters in this movie. To those who do -- I hope you see the answer is not there.

The movie is garbage -- but to know a treasure you must also know what is not of value.

Dan

reply

LOL, yes Dan, you certainly didn't get the point of this beautiful movie. It is simply trying to say that you can find happiness in many ways and that you should not wait the last few days of your existence to accomplish what you desire the most. In Remy's case, try to write a book or an essay which would make history, and give him a place in posterity.
But beside making you think deeply about your own motivations in life, this movie is a pleasure to watch, because it is pure poetry. The dialogs are the funniest and the most sophisticated i have ever heard in any movies, similar to Woody Allen's at his best.
In conclusion, those who loved "Annie Hall" will love the Barbarian Invasions.

reply

I really loved the movie. For me it had nothing to do with the Canadian health xcare system. We dont have any such system where I live (New Delhi, India). However, we loved the movie because it was a portrayal of a wonderful character and his passing. That was it. Didnt look for any hidden meanings. Didnt find any. Just this terrific, touching story about a somewhat more than ordinary man. What we couldnt figure out was why it was called the "Invasion of the Barbarians". ? I would be happy if someone could tell me why it was called so. Thanks.

reply

I HAVE to jump in here. I love many Woody Allen films. (of course, I love his earlier, funnier films more ;-) ) Annie Hall is my favorite film of all time. There is NO similarity between this lousy film and Annie Hall. Maybe some comparison between some recent Woody film that I haven't seen, but NOT Annie Hall. Those who loved "Annie Hall" will probably despise the Barbarian Invasions. Those who prefer some recent Woody film to Annie may like Barbarian. It may compare to Woody at his worst, after all the you-know-what between him and you-know-who.

The defense people keep putting up for this waste of film are 3-fold.
1. If you don't like it, you must be too young. When you get old, you'll be fixated with dying, and then you'll love it.
Well, I'm well into my 50s, and I hate it.
2. It does a great job of making you understand that you'll die some day, and you better start thinking about that now, so you can live a better life between now & then.
Well, I think that now & then it does do a good job there, but the abominable characters and pretentious dialog consistently intrude and almost make you wish you were dead.
3. The dialog is so witty and sophisticated, poetic, etc.
No, like others have said, it is overwritten, it is pretentious, it is annoying. It is mostly old farts talking about sex.

reply

If you think this movie talked too much about sex, you should definitely not see "The Decline of the American Empire". =]
Also, continuing with the Woody Allen theme, this kind of reminded me of "Husbands and Wives". Mostly because of the blonde wife character here being the same as the blonde girlfriend character in that movie. They even had the same (stupid) interests.

reply

That's a weak move, my friend. If you didn't like it, then say so with something original. You're in your 50s and hated it. That's not a reason for the film being bad. Explain yourself. That "defense" of the film you mention is irrelevant.

Defending Woody Allen is fine. I agree there's no comparison to Annie Hall (not sure where that came from in the first place).

Let's look again, though, at your "3-fold" reasons for hating this film. We've already covered the first: your defense of the defense doesn't really hold up. You certainly don't have to defend the fact that you're over 50 (I'm not asking for ID here), but you do need to defend why you hated the film (see below--"pretentiousness" only goes so far).
The second and third reasons you give are essentially the same: you say the film is pretentious. Please give me examples. I'd agree the dialogue is a bit pretentious, but isn't that appropriate for the characters? I see this film as being an amazing exploration of oncoming death and a son's awkward relationship with his father in the face of death (as well as indirect comments on euthanasia).

I found this film moving and absolutely beautiful. Get back to Manhatten if you want something contrived.

reply

Listen, this is a movie forum, so I won't get into the various contradictions between Christanity and capitalism, and I'll let the "best health care in the world" comment slide...

But I will say this:

-This movie is as positive as it is negative. It was never about "fixing" anything, nor does it imply that "everything is broke". It is about learning to make the best of the circumstances you find yourself in, among other things. There is as much joy as there is despair; it happens to draw some unpleasant conclusions about modern life, deal with it (besides, to know good you must also know what is bad; it would seem that you of all people should know that) Also, "loving and giving" is all Sébastien does the entire time, so I don't know what you're freaking out about. (And cocaine, and it's actually heroin, I belive, is never presented as medicine. Just a last-ditch attempt to reduce his father's suffering, not to cure him or improve his condition in any way.)

-A movie is not "garbage" because the characters presented in it have experiences or beliefs that differ from your own. I don't know how else I can say that. These characters are not meant to be shining beacons of morality, they are meant to be real people; the film does not attempt to "justify" their actions--we are left to draw our own conclusions. Judge the movie on how it's made, not on the random viewpoints of fictional people.

-Belive it or not, it's possible for some people to relate to characters on--get this--a non-literal level. I'm not a rich, cynical, workaholic who's torn up about his father's impending death and so proceeds to buy everyone off and get heroin from a junkie, yet *somehow* the character of Sébastien still speaks to me. Looking out for your loved ones even when surrounded by breakdown and change is a universal human constant, for starters. You may not share a character's worldview, but that doesn't mean that there's nothing about said character that you can in any way understand or connect with your life and being. And furthermore, the movie isn't trying to say anything, it's trying to show something.

-What exactly was the point of your post? To say that you don't relate to the characters? Good for you. No one cares.

reply

It would be a shame if every piece of cinema or literature required clear-cut "point" or "message". What is it that you feel is missing from the movie? Flashing neon signs at different points of the movie telling you what to think, what to feel, what the "message" is?

But you seem to have already answered your own question with a checklist of what you feel to be the "point(s)" of the movie...so why bother asking? To stimulate thoughtful discussion or debate? Or merely to flaunt your wonderful American health system (don't you guys all go down to Mexico now to buy prescription drugs?), or the fact that you have "the answer"....? It feels like the latter.





reply

Unless you are a huge fan of Quebec's history, many of the references in this movie could be viewed as slights aimed at the U.S. Even more, you might view this as just another attack on America. It definitely, is not.
Honestly, I see attacks on systems as necessary prods to move them in a better direction and I don't doubt that any public policies (especially, say my home province Ontario, or Quebec's) should be exempt.
Moving to the final section of your comment; it is difficult to argue with someone who dismisses a movie because one aspect is at odds with your personal philosophy. The movie can hardly be judged on Remy's decision to use assisted suicide as an option. Further, heroin, as a palliative treatment has a lot of merrit according to medical literature. While you may not agree that any illegal drug has a place, it is at least worthy of discussion.
Does this movie have value? What does it mean? Is it a polemic stricking out at heartland Christian values?
It is perhaps a humorous stab a the consequences of rampant existensialism and pampered, yet sincere social indignation. It reflects a need to define yourself nationally and internationally. While it offers a personal solution; it allows that change does not have to lead to alienation.

It may not be a great movie, but it is a worthy movie.

reply

Jeez..I've only seen it about 35 times, so I don't know what it's about. I just know I'm nuts about almost everyone in it. The health care system in Canada has, er, a few bugs, true, but I bet if you need to lower your cholesterol, it doesn't cost you 287.00 for 90 pills..which gives a few old folks the choice between eating and lowering their cholesterol...better a hospital hall than the street! Even if you hated the WHOLE movie, the "pompier" (blow job) puns were worth sitting through it for..hey, I've even learned a little French. The first time I saw it, it wasn't just the only time I've cried in a movie in the last ten years, it's almost the only time I've cried AT ALL in the last 10 years...

We see those in the light,
But those in darkness,
We don't see,

Bertolt Brecht (sorry about the Brecht quite--it follows me around. End of last verse of "Mack the4 Knife," which isn't translated into English in the popular versions)

reply

You're an intolerant moron. The point of the movie is that when you are about to die, the "answer" doesn't seem to matter anymore, whether it be capitalism or socialism. Considering your position as an affirmed Christian capitalist and your inability to be open to the position of this movie, maybe it's not the garbage, maybe you're the garbage.

reply

Well considering the film's predecessor was entitled The Decline of The American Empire I think that all of your points have some validity since Arcand's film does seem to want to put a bit of a social commentary on how we live our lives in this day and age...BUT another thread asks "what is the point of the title The Barbarian Invasions?" and I think this is where everyone elses comments can be incorporated.

In the scene where they show the 9/11 attacks and they mention that the terrorists were successful because they attacked the "heart" of the nation, i.e. a major US city, essentially Remy has also been a Barbarian to all these people but in a more emotional, loving way. He has literally ambushed their hearts, especially his son, a man who never thought he would succumb to being able to love his father before his death. So in effect Remy was successful at something in his life he invaded the lives and minds of all these people and they never saw it coming.

I hope that makes sense to everyone....this was just my take on it all.

reply

If you watch the special features on the DVD there is a round table discussion of the film with the actors. They basically said that the theme of the film was an indictment of the Canadian Health Care system.

reply

Umm.. Yeah... That must be the goal of this entire film... I mean they told us right? How could it be anything else.

reply

One of the best most intelligent simple yet emotional films ever made talking about friendships, love and 'barbarians'. A force that invades with love not with swords.

reply

I just wanted also to add how good choice and touching was the credits song of Françoise Hardy.

reply

The beauty of the film was it's subtlety, which is so rare nowadays. It simply presented reality. If you draw messages from the world around you, you will draw messages from this film. If not, then you won't.

reply

I'm sorry but to say you KNOW the "answer" is nothing less than ignorant and arrogant, especially when you attribute the "answer" to a belief system devised by power hungry megalomaniacs (i.e. the church). You only THINK you know the answer because you have been told there is ONE big question, you have also been told by the same people that THEY have the answer to this so-called question and that the only way to get the answer is to follow them (and probably give them money as well)

Also this film is an analogy about the death of socialism, i.e. the decline in nationalised health care, the eroding ideals of socialism and communism in a consumerist society, evident in the scene in which the friends talk of the different forms of leftist beliefs they have followed i.e. Marxist-Leninism, Maoist, Stalinist. The Dad represents these conservative left wing ideals, the son represents a new way of thinking (liberal rationalist). All in all, a very clever film, beautifully written, excellent acting, and rich in symbolism & true human emotion.

reply