Paris was a douche bag.
1) He takes advantage of his guests hospitality, bangs and steals his wife.
2) Of course after #1 he gives fair motivation for the Greeks to come to Troy and gets his family and country decimated.
3) Talks the talk and then turtles when he is obviously going to lose the honor fight.
4) Confronts Achilles with a bow and shoots him from a height and distance.
He is the one character I was hoping would pay big time in the movie and he ends up getting away.
Don't worry man. In the myth, he gets shot in the d*ck by a poisonous arrow. They take him to his ex who is a nymph that could heal him. She denies him healing and he dies a painful death. Pretty great.
shareWrong . . . in The Iliad we have no idea what happens to Paris . . . nor is he mentioned in The Odyssey . . . granted, in later tales there are a variety of ends for Paris . . .
shareYou should notice that I never mentioned the Iliad or the Odyssey. that's probably why I said "in the myth" in case you missed that.
Thanks for your input.
Yes, okay . . . only it is odd that Homer makes no mention of Paris' demise . . . we simply don't know what happens to him . . . I think Wolfgang took advantage of that to give the film the ending it had . . . of course, one could claim the same for Achilles--we don't know what becomes of him, last we read about him he's in his tent with Briseis . . .
shareExactly, so you just proved yourself wrong. Homer says nothing about Achilles, Glaukus, Paris, or Philoctetes. Yet myths claime that both glaukus and Achilles fall during the same battle. Ajax, as usual, bears the brunt of fight while rescuing the body.
We also know that philoctetes brings the bow of herakles with arrows dipped in the blood of the hydra. He then shoots Paris in the d*ck with a poisonous arrow and Paris dies a painful death.
We also aren't told about Achilles' son Neoptolomus (pyrrhus, my spelling may be off in both names) in the Iliad. However, we know that troy could not have fallen of without the bow of herakles and the son of Achilles being brought against troy.
In The Odyssey, which talks about the end of the war in flashes, Achilles is dead by the time of the Trojan horse so we assume he died during battle. It's said that Helen returned to Sparta at the end of the war so Paris was left all alone...until he stole someone else's wife.
Dean and I do share a more profound bond. I wasn't going to mention it - Castiel
I agree 100%! Glad to see others think Paris was a real douche/dick. Definitely the most unsympathetic character in the whole story, at least from what I could tell...also, Hector was the most honorable of everyone, including kings and other warriors....I love the scene where he is the only one of the Trojans that clearly understand battle strategy, and tries to convince his father (the king) that listening to the nonsense about "bird signs" from the court soothsayer was ill-advised. He backed his brother, even though he was a jerk and an idiot and backed his father even though he knew he was wrong. He supported his family even when he knew it would end in tragedy. Maybe loyal to a fault, but to be respected.
shareAgreed . . .
shareIn the movie, just noticed it, Paris runs back to get the sword of Troy. This is after Hector kills Menelaus and Agamemnon signals that the Trojans broke the agreement. King Priam told Paris that the sword must stay in a Trojan hand in an earlier scene.
shareI agree 100%! Glad to see others think Paris was a real douche/dick. Definitely the most unsympathetic character in the whole story, at least from what I could tell...also, Hector was the most honorable of everyone, including kings and other warriors....I love the scene where he is the only one of the Trojans that clearly understand battle strategy, and tries to convince his father (the king) that listening to the nonsense about "bird signs" from the court soothsayer was ill-advised. He backed his brother, even though he was a jerk and an idiot and backed his father even though he knew he was wrong. He supported his family even when he knew it would end in tragedy. Maybe loyal to a fault, but to be respected.
Well said. To be fair, Paris was a whiny coward in the myths as well, so that was actually pretty accurate to his character here in "Troy". Give credit to Orlando Bloom for nailing that part, he did a great job making audiences despise him.
Instead of fighting on IMDB, why not support DC, Marvel, AND Fox and hope ALL their flicks are good?
Sigh... So I guess it's up to me to defend Paris once again! After years of frequenting this board, I still have no freaking idea why Paris is such a hated character. He saved Helen from being the mere possession (because yes, that was all she was to Menelaos: a possession) of a sick war-mongerering bastard, whom she could never love. Paris though gave her what she needed and wanted.
And I just can't see how the war was Paris's fault either. How come you people don't put any blame on Menelaos and Agamemnon, who were the ones who actually wanted the war to happen? And if you look a bit closer at the story of this movie, the war never really was about Paris and Helen anyway (Agamemnon even said straight out that he didn't care about his brother's "pretty wife"), but about selfish Greeks wanting to show the Troyans who was the boss.
And as for Paris being a "whiny coward", does every man have to be this macho meat-head to get your approval? Is there no place in your world for a different kind of men, who are lovers and not fighters? How can you spew such a hatred against a mild-mannered guy, who never would hurt a fly, and just ignore the real war-mongerers, who happen to be the real reason why both Greeks and Troyans had to be killed for no good reason? Seriously, you people disgust me with your twisted values and lack of empathy...
Intelligence and purity.
My two cents... speaking from what I've seen in this movie.
He saved Helen from being the mere possession (because yes, that was all she was to Menelaos: a possession) of a sick war-mongerering bastard, whom she could never love. Paris though gave her what she needed and wanted.
And I just can't see how the war was Paris's fault either. How come you people don't put any blame on Menelaos and Agamemnon, who were the ones who actually wanted the war to happen? And if you look a bit closer at the story of this movie, the war never really was about Paris and Helen anyway (Agamemnon even said straight out that he didn't care about his brother's "pretty wife"), but about selfish Greeks wanting to show the Troyans who was the boss.
And as for Paris being a "whiny coward", does every man have to be a macho meat-head to get your approval? Is there no place in your world for a different kind of men, who are lovers and not fighters? How can you spew such a hatred against a mild-mannered guy, who never would hurt a fly, and just ignore the real war-mongerers, who happen to be the real reason why both Greeks and Troyans had to be killed for no good reason? Seriously, you people disgust me with your twisted values and lack of empathy...
Good for Helen. I have full sympathy for her (and every other woman that wanted to escape that life). What I don't approve of is the way Paris has others fight and die for his actions.
He starts looking for excuses early on, talking to his brother how Poseidon has blessed their journey, thus surely at least one God must approve of his actions.
Menelaos and Agamemnon. Portrayed as the greedy (or vengeful, in Menelaos case) warmongerers in this movie. I don't cheer for them. They're villains being villains. Paris strikes me as just as selfish and greedy, risking his entire country and family for Helen. But, since he loves Helen, we're supposed to root for him while he goes back on his word, hides behind the walls and allow soldiers to die for him? If Agamemnon had found another reason to invade Troy, then that would be that. Paris would be blameless. Instead, he handed Agamemnon an excuse on a silver platter.
This time, Paris not only gave him a possibility to invade, he also vows to fight for Helen, and goes back on it (not knowing Agamemnon intended to go for Troy either way), selfishly sacrificing his people to war because when push came to shove, he didn't want to die for Helen if someone else could do it in his stead.
Agamemnon used his status as a ruler too, and his soldiers were forced into war.
People who talks big and then flee to hide behind their walls (or flee as their family dies) and letting their country fight for them disgusts me just as much, even more so when people try to make me cheer for them.
I give props to the people of Troy instead. Innocent, fighting to the death for their city, families and their spoiled brat of a prince. And suffering for it. I can guess what all the survivors thought of the Greeks after the fall of the city and the loss of their families. I wonder if any of them had similar thoughts of Paris later on.
Paris had no desire to die, no. Because he was a young man, and he just wanted to live with Helen for many more years!
Poorly Lived and Poorly Died, Poorly Buried and No One Criedshare
Right... So now Paris is to be blamed for Hector's death too? Jeesh...
Hector could have easily have "chickened out" too and lived a good life with his wife and his baby son. But he took up the challenge to fight Achilles by his own free will.
Intelligence and purity.
Not in Hector, to chicken out.
It would have been dishonorable for him to have done so.
Fighting Achilles was Hobson's Choice.
I know that Hector wouldn't and didn't chicken out. But it was nevertheless his own choice to fight Achilles, like it was Paris's own choice to flee from Menelaos and be a "coward".
Intelligence and purity.
So basically you just don't understand Stoicism, nor is it your opinion that people should face the consequences of their actions. That's not really defending Paris. That's defending a philosophy that lacks decent principles and ethics. But hey, to each their own.
shareYou are really, really obnoxious to people who disagree with you. You must be a professional victim in real life.
shareVery well put Happy, though I have a sneaking suspicion that the poster is trolling because his reasons for supporting Paris are ridiculous. He hasn't even really produced a decent counter-argument in his own support.
shareYes..."trolling" because they don't want to dogpile on and demonize Paris .
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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .
Very good post SanForZeke. Agree with everything you say.
Poorly Lived and Poorly Died, Poorly Buried and No One Criedshare
>He saved Helen from being the mere possession
No he didn't: you're applying twenty-first century mores to thirteenth century BC situations. And in the myth, he kidnapped Helen, she didn't go willingly.
>does every man have to be a macho meat-head to get your approval?
No. It's okay to be a pussy. Just don't steal other men's wives then, and expect not to get your ass kicked for it.
>I have full sympathy for her (and every other woman that wanted to escape that life).
Really? She wanted to escape? Then why did she go back to Greece with Menelaus after the war? (Not the BS ending the movie had, I mean the myth.)
..Joe
Furienna, you are looking at these people and these times through 21stC eyes - a fatal error.
Helen was a possession, yes, but (sadly) wives were back then,generally, to their menfolk. Warmongering? These were very, very troubled times and sons were groomed for combat. Brave men were idolised then, as we do today. They had to be to help defend their cities, hence their families & friends. That is very worthy, an asset & a virtue.
Paris was a coward, and cowardice is timeless.(Bear in mind, Hector might have been slain by Menelaus!)
Troyans? Trojans, please.
Yes, and I highly doubt that Paris was going to be a respectful and progressive-minded lover to Helen in their future. She went from being her husband's possession to being Paris's.
shareAnd on what are basing that assumption? It appears to me that you only want to think the worst about Paris, because that is the popular thing to do. As far as the movie tells us, he did love Helen and would be a better husband to her than Menelaos ever was.
Intelligence and purity.
Disliking Paris is not simply the "popular thing to do" but the only pov one can take, looking at his character and actions.
A better husband? Doubt that. He was a man of his times just as Menelaus, and 99.9% of male society.
Disliking Paris is not simply the "popular thing to do" but the only pov one can take, looking at his character and actions.
A better husband? Doubt that. He was a man of his times just as Menelaus, and 99.9% of male society.
Yes, it's your right to like cowards & weaklings.
Helen stayed with him as she was a thoroughly manipulative woman. No wish to add further to my opinion of Paris other than it seems even his father hadn't too high a regard for him either.
As for your dismissing such brave men as Achilles (love or hate him),Hector, Patroclus,Odysseus and so many others as, "macho meatheads", is risible, and even immature.
Achilles with his nigh-invulnerability was so very brave .
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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .
***Yes, it's your right to like cowards & weaklings***
And it's your right to like macho meatheads. Moving on...
***Helen stayed with him as she was a thoroughly manipulative woman.***
Fine, if that is what you want to believe...
***No wish to add further to my opinion of Paris other than it seems even his father hadn't too high a regard for him either.***
He didn't? When exactly did Priam express any disregard for Paris?
***As for your dismissing such brave men as Achilles (love or hate him),Hector, Patroclus,Odysseus and so many others as, "macho meatheads", is risible, and even immature.***
But I was not talking about Hector (who was a honorable man despite being a great warrior), Patroclus (who was hardly less of a "weakling" than Paris was) or Odysseus (who was intelligent as well as strong and brave). I was rather talking about Achilles (who was a complete piece of shit until he found love in Briseis at the end of movie) and Agamemnon and Menelaus. Got to hate them!
Yes indeed, happyphantom9
shareParis is hated because he deserves hatred.
If you go only by the myth then Paris did not earn the love of Helen; it was given to him as a bribe - he gave Aphrodite a golden apple and she let him take the fairest women in the world, never mind the fact that she was already married. The myth does not suggest that they had a love that blossomed, but merely that she was nothing but a prize for him to win.
If you go by the movie he came to the House of a Host as a Guest and took the wife of of his Host. In Greek culture there was a sacred (as in, literally sacred) duty of courtesy between Host/Guest that Paris violated and disrespected. That should deserve hatred, for he has no honor to disrespect his Host like that. Now, consider his father Priam in the movie who said to Achilles that though they may be enemies, they could still respect each other. Priam showed respect even to those who didn't deserve it, even his enemies, but Paris didn't show respect to his enemy or his Host; that's annoying to most modern audiences to say the least, but it's even worse in a historical context.
Meantime, all of Paris's actions were predicated by "love" - but the movie has no indication of real or any love between Helen and Paris, instead, it felt like he was merely inspired by lust for a woman he couldn't have.
To counter that opening act of lust, the movie goes to lengths to suggest that Paris had real "love" for Helen with speeches made by various other characters (though, surprisingly, little from Paris or Helen themselves). Meantime, there is almost no love or romantic chemistry shown between them on screen. Paris and Helen almost never have a conversation that seems fleshed out beyond a few sentences; there is no real warmth or depth between them - this bothers most audience members, because their actions and attitudes between each other seems more wooden then the horse, and that erodes most of the sympathy of the audience.
To further cause issue with Paris is the fact that he is both cowardly and dishonest; most people despise cowards and liars.
Paris continued to claim he would die because of his love for Helen, yet when given the chance, he literally fell on his knees to grip the legs of his brother in terror. If he would die for his love, he had the chance and refused it. Whatever his reasons, his decision was based on fear - and the fact that he broke his oath made him a coward and an oathbreaker - two things that were looked on with more scorn in that time than today, though it is true that today most people still dislike those things.
As the movie continues Paris continues to make wild claims and declarations in the movie - he'll fight for Helen, he'll fight for Troy, he'll run off from the palace with her and live in the wild - and a dozen other promises that the movie makes clear he shows he has no intention of honoring. To most people that simply makes him look like a child making up stories to manipulate people.
In the myth Apollo guided Paris's arrow to strike Achilles, but in the movie he does this with his bow on his own - either way; the greatest warrior in the world was slaughtered by a liar, a coward, a thief, an oathbreaker, and a man who let others fight for him.
As much as Achilles was close to a villain in this movie, the fact is - most people were annoyed that so great a warrior should die so shamefully to a coward and oathbreaker (even though that's how the story was written). Many would say that they would prefer Achilles to die to Priam, or even Aenus (the boy who claimed the sword of Troy and was said to have taken the remaining Trojans and founded Rome). Point is - most people don't like to see anyone die badly - watching Paris do the killing was insult to injury - Paris was a terrible warrior and he did not deserve the honor of slaying the greatest warrior in the world.
Now, the last point to make is more simple - while it is true that I have hated Paris since I was six years old and my father read me The Illiad and - even then - I was mad that he would steal another man's wife (even if the other man was bad, she didn't leave him, he stole her) - and I hate him more in this movie when all his contemptible actions are made more clear on the screen, that doesn't stop me from hating most of the Greeks, too.
The only people I found any sympathy for were Hector (and his wife and children); Priam and Odysseus (the priestess of Apollo who slept with Achilles didn't do much for me; she wasn't much different than the others to me, really).
I had no love for Achilles, who was only there to satisfy his pride; I had no love for Agamemnon and was happy to see him die. As for Menelaus? The movie SAID he was bad, but honestly - how much evidence of his evil did we see in the movie? In any case, I didn't care too much when he died, but I didn't dislike him much either - but, to be fair, how can we feel anything for a person that has almost no development at all?
As for Helen? She was fairly useless to me - she left her husband, but before she escaped him, she spent several days sleeping with a handsome prince who was visiting and promised her a kingdom if she left with him. I wonder if it was love, or the fact that a younger, more attractive nobleman tempted her rather than love; but either way, I don't care - she was not someone I cared for, either.
To be honest almost all of the characters meant little to me.
However, the exception to that is Hector, Priam and Odysseus. I felt bad for them because it was clear that they were all embroiled in a war that was not what they wanted and were only trying to make the best of a stupid situation. I felt sympathy for them, and was sorry they had to get mixed up in this whole affair no matter what their Fate ended up being.
But that doesn't stop me from hating Paris.
Way too long for this board!
Have you not heard the phrase, "less is more"?
2) Of course after #1 he gives fair motivation for the Greeks to come to Troy and gets his family and country decimated.
Troy was gonna fall either way, but Paris basically sped up the process by providing Menalaus and Agamennon with a convenient excuse. Agamennon wanted the entire Aegean, mind, and Troy was an obstacle to that objective.
Is adultery proper motivation? Maybe not. But Helen of Troy granted the Greek hierarchy a convenient excuse to march forward and invade.
If "Helen of Troy" needs a modern day interpretation, I guess this is it: Convenient excuse.
Agree. And in addition to 4, f-cker also does it when his cousin is screaming and begging got him to not kill Achilles
DO NKT get why he lived either. The guy died in the original myth. Painfully
But you have to remember that Achilles had killed Paris's brother and even almost refused to let his family give him a proper funeral.
So as far as Paris knew at the time, there was nothing good at all about Achilles and he deserved to die.
Yes, he could have listened to Briseis before killing him. But I guess that what happened had to happen.
And I don't know whether to laugh or cry at you Paris haters. First you will go on and on about him being a "lousy coward".
And then, when he finally does something brave, that should have made him look better in your eyes, you can still find faults with what he does. Wow...