It's sex... - The Brown Bunny (2003) Discussion

[–] silvergloss 13 years ago

It's mainly the USA that has a problem with it. Sex is seen as dirty and taboo and something to be ashamed of and confess to at your local church. If people want to get upset at something, get upset at the way women are treated in actual porn. Get mad at the strangely accepted racism, sexism and sado-masochistic tendencies in porn; not at a film by Vincent Gallo that is clearly worthy of being called an art film and is in fact a very well made meditation on what it feels like to be alone in the world.

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[–] The_Dying_Flutchman 13 years ago

A friend of mine is currently making a documentary about people who enjoy masturbating while watching "The Passion of the Christ". I told him when he's finished with it, it'll probably never be shown to the public. He'll have to show it only at private parties. He believes that he will be vindicated. I wouldn't be surprised, though, that the Vatican might be interested in procuring a copy, but only for research, of course.

Absolute perfection in the face of woofing!

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[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] paultagonist 12 years ago

Oh my god I would love to see that.

The real trick to life is not to be in the know, but to be in the mystery. -Fred Alan Wolf

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[–] duanne-oliveira 11 years ago

Is the documentary finished? Is it online already?

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[–] hotrats2112 11 years ago

I just emailed the first line of that post to everyone I know. Amazing.

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[–] timeformime 13 years ago

It's mainly blanket statements about whole countries that lead to misconceptions like this. There are many in the USA who are uncomfortable with sex, much more so than in Europe, but what I find even stranger than this is that there is an oddly high percentage of IMDb users who feel the need to put down the USA as an entire country for being uncomfortable with sex. I see it in the message board for damn near every movie with a somewhat graphic sex scene. So whatever valid point you were trying to make is completely invalidated when you start attacking a country. I could say that Australia hates the USA, but you'd laugh at me and say no, some Australians dislike Americans. So why do you make the same sort of asinine statement about a whole bloody country and expect it to be taken seriously? Art is art, take it or leave it. And bigotry is also bigotry. You can evidently see plenty of both on IDMb.

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[–] dgross-3 13 years ago

There are just a few other tiny other little countries in the world (you know ... "the" world) that can be said to have "a problem with it." A few are:

China
India
Nepal
Pakistan
Bangladesh
Indonesia
Malaysia
Egypt
Morocco
Syria
Iraq
Iran
Afghanistan
Saudi Arabia
Yemen
Jordan
Israel
Turkey
Cuba*
Sri Lanka
Ireland

* I'm sorry, did I shock you? You thought that could never be, in Che's paradise?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Cuba

Let's see, how much of the world's population have we covered, so far ... probably 'bout half.

For a good time, see: http://updatednews.ca/2010/08/13/countries-that-censor-the-internet/

... for a reasonable first-order approximation.

Glad to be of help!

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[–] movielover2011 13 years ago

Not to incite a riot here, but Dgross, you might want to look at that list more closely...

What do those countries you listed have in common? And what do the other countries that don't censor these movies have in common? Now, which of those groups does the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA have more in common with? Your list or the uncensored countries list?

Except for Ireland, on any given day the U.S. is ready to go to war with any of the countries you listed <sarcasm intended> and now you list these countries to show a commonality? In film censorship no less? Convenient.

I will say, that I agree with the majority, the U.S. is prudish when it comes to sex, yet the complete opposite when it comes to blood and guts. Where a movie has a plot where the nudity adds something, say realism or some context, then I don't have a problem with it. But where it is gratuitous and done simply to cause publicity for the film, especially when there is actual sex, not just nudity, I am against it.

Brown Bunny was a bad film. Bad plot, bad acting, bad everything. And from my perspective, this douche had a young stupid girl agree to suck his d!ck on film. Granted, he has a great looking d!ck, but that is not the point here. That scene did nothing to add to the context or story of the film, you can tell he just wanted to get off. This was positively the worst UNsimulated sex scene I've ever seen because it was clearly done so this guy could get his rocks off, and there was absolutely no artistic content at all.

So yes, I am opposed to it in this film, and it amounts to porn with a better plot. Now for a proper take on film art with heavy nudity and simulated sex and simulated oral sex, see "Lie with Me". The sex in that film was central to the plot (she was a borderline nymph who felt unlovable and had never had a true boyfriend and she was learning to love and make love rather than sex for the first time). The scenes are intense, but that is because what she is going through is intense. There is tons of nudity, but no showing any actual penetration (there was none) or actual tongue to vagina or penis (there was none - the actors had genitalia covered when contact was made, even in the scene where his nose is seen on top of her vagina as if he's performing, she is covered where it counts, but we only see the top from her perspective) just really good blocking and realistic simulation.

There really is no need for the US to be so prudish when it comes to films like Lie with Me. But yeah, Brown Bunny should be banned or put in the porn aisle.

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[–] Thought_Criminal_J62377 9 years ago

No, he didn't list those countries to show a commonality! It was to show that people need to stop singling out the USA. There are many people and countries that feel the same about sex displayed on film. For us(USA) it's a matter of good taste and dignity. There is nothing to be criticized about that.

Everyone wants to hate and criticize us(USA) and if I was running things, we'd stop helping the ingrates. *BEEP* them for always stabbing us in the back when they don't need us!

How much financial aid does the USA receive and how much do we give? We all know the answer.

Yea, Tho I Walk Thru The Valley Of The Shadow Of Political Correctness...🇺🇸

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[–] me-nyc 8 years ago

We will make sure that you never run things.

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[–] Thought_Criminal_J62377 8 years ago

And we will make sure that you never run things, either.

Tolerance Is Intolerant Of Politically Incorrect Thought...🇺🇸

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[–] Krustallos 13 years ago

dgross-3 on Wed Jun 8 2011 10:36:50
There are just a few other tiny other little countries in the world (you know ... "the" world) that can be said to have "a problem with it."

I think the difference is that we don't see hundreds of outraged posts from citizens of those countries on imdb every time there's a graphic sex scene in a film. Possibly because they haven't had the chance to see it, I'll grant you.

The weird thing about the US is the division between the social libertarians (pornography protected under the first amendment!) and the puritans. It's a dichotomy which exists everywhere of course, but it's so much more extreme in the US.

Judging by the Cuban ladies I met when I visited, Cubans don't have much of a problem with sex, by the way. They do have a problem with censorship per se, of course...

I used to want to change the world. Now I just want to leave the room with a little dignity.

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[–] mcsquiggs 13 years ago

Krustallos on Sat Jul 23 2011 07:27:42 dgross-3 on Wed Jun 8 2011 10:36:50
"I think the difference is that we don't see hundreds of outraged posts from citizens of those countries on imdb every time there's a graphic sex scene in a film. Possibly because they haven't had the chance to see it, I'll grant you."

A couple of better reasons for those countries listed, not jumping on with outraged posts is simply the language barrier, and censorship. There's a good chance a lot of western films would never be shown in a lot of those countries. Actually having a computer with the internet, jumping on an english speaking website and writing in english is also quite a barrier.

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[–] Krustallos 12 years ago

Censorship is what I meant by "haven't had the chance to see it", for the most part.

English language films are shown in non-English speaking countries dubbed or with subtitles, which pretty much gets past the language barrier. Pirate DVDs are also rife. It is true that most people in those countries who know enough English to contribute here will be intelligent and well educated, which sets them apart from the majority of Americans posting here I guess, so you may well be onto something there.

I used to want to change the world. Now I just want to leave the room with a little dignity.

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[–] DeclanCochran 11 years ago

I can advocate Ireland when it comes to "it" in films, as most films with sex in them are either banned or rated one or two ratings higher than the England ratings. It's like a conservative wet dream over there.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"A man who does not spend time with his family can never be a real man."

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[–] cyborg264 10 years ago

I've lived half of my life in Europe and half of my life in the US. I can tell you from personal experience there's no doubting that the US, as a whole, has a greater fear of sex.

Europe has the greater fear of portraying violence in cinema. You would know this if you studied and lived that life like I did.

Sorry bud, try a new topic.

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[–] ambercederman 12 years ago

I partially agree but also take offense. For starters, women are actually treated quite well in porn. Women have way too much control over porn for it to be degrading. If they don't want to do something, all they have to do is say no and they don't have to do it. Women also get paid w

And why should one be mad at S&M? I love S&m. It's fun, safe, and a hell of an experience. Please watch the film Secretary. It shows that S&M relationships CAN be about love. Trust plays a big role and it's great to either be in control or let your partner take control.

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[–] sharpnova 10 years ago

Just like how Europeans have such an irrational phobia of violence in their film.

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[–] grrrdevin 13 years ago

The unsimulated sex act in A Clockwork Orange was art.
The unsimulated sex act in this was amateur porn.

"I've been living on toxic waste for years, and I'm fine. Just ask my other heads!"

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[–] raymondoedwards 12 years ago

"The unsimulated sex act in A Clockwork Orange was art."

Where is the unsimulated sex scene in A Clockwork Orange?
I have seen the film many times and do not recall such a scene.

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[–] grrrdevin 12 years ago

It's the very last shot of the movie ("Yeah, I was cured alright...").

"I've been living on toxic waste for years, and I'm fine. Just ask my other heads!"

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[–] raymondoedwards 12 years ago

On Clockwork Orange unsimulated sex scene:

"It's the very last shot of the movie ("Yeah, I was cured alright...")"

I just checked my DVD of Clockwork Orange, that scene does not (in my opinion) look realistic. Sexy, yes, but real sex on screen? I do not think so.

Maybe you have seen an uncut version or know more about the actual filming than I do.

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[–] grrrdevin 12 years ago

Wow, I just did a Google search on the subject and couldn't find anything. I guess my Kubrick-loving friend is full of shyte.

"I've been living on toxic waste for years, and I'm fine. Just ask my other heads!"

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[–] listentotheradio 13 years ago

If you really wanted to have a real discussion about the subject matter then maybe next time lose the attitude and don't be so condescending (ie. Get over yourselves and go watch The social network). People will just think you're an uneducated 14 year old.

Calling it art is just a cop out. Just because a film is "out there" or not mainstream doesn't necessary equate it to being artistic. Nothing is beyond criticism and some people just see this for what it was: amature porn passed for a film designed to shock.

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[–] TheCommenteer 11 years ago

Technically film is art. All movies are art, whether good or not is another debate entirely.

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[–] DeclanCochran 10 years ago

Here here. If it is creative human expression, then it is art, in my view.

However one cannot ignore the category "art film", which is, I would argue, a recognized genre or type of film that connotes various aspects in much the same was as Western, or horror film, connote. In this instance, it being slow, typically made outside the studio system, audience unfriendly, and pretentious/profound depending on your point of view. All films are art, sure, but "art films" are something different. That's what I think, anyway.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What would you do if I died today?

I'd die tomorrow.

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[–] ring911 12 years ago

It's sex. Exactly, it's just sex. Whoop dee doo, something that people do often.

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[–] bladerunner910 12 years ago

Why? Because sex is not something that should be used for "artistic" purposes. Sex is not art. Sex is a sacred, physical act between people who are in love, and sex is the ultimate way to show that love. The reason that we now have opinions like, "Sex is art!" or "it's just sex!" is because we have taken something so special, so private and pushed it outside of the walls that it should be kept within. No, sex isn't dirty or gross. But it is sacred. Something that should be shared carefully. There is no good reason to put it on a screen for everyone else to see. I'm not a bigot, nor do I intend to tell someone how to live their life. However, I do agree with some people when they say that putting such acts on the screen is indulgence. It is not something that a "smart" filmmaker would do. If you cannot figure out how to get the point across without being so crass or pornographic, than do not put the scene in the film.

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[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] paultagonist 12 years ago

Hahahaha. High five good sir

The real trick to life is not to be in the know, but to be in the mystery. -Fred Alan Wolf

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[–] BlindeKonijN 12 years ago

You are an insufferable idiot.

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[–] TheCommenteer 11 years ago

Your ancestors don't agree with you, neither does nature or reality.
I think you meant to say "The reason that we now have opinions like, "Sex is private" or "Sex is sacred" is because we have taken something so natural, so primal and over-glorified it turning it into something that needs to be done behind closed doors with the lights off."

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[–] Dino_Riders 12 years ago

Well as Gallo was Chloe's boyfriend at the time I'm pretty sure it was done for more than just artistic purposes. It's not porn because he didn't pay her to do it, she did it because she was his girlfriend, ACTING in his movie..

"Gentlemen. You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"

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[–] Krustallos 12 years ago

He wasn't her boyfriend at the time. They had been a relationship earlier but it had finished well before he cast her in this film.

It's not porn because it's not designed to arouse sexual feelings in the viewer.

I used to want to change the world. Now I just want to leave the room with a little dignity.

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[–] rockslideproductions 12 years ago

You're right. There is a large gap between pornography and art. And this was clearly on the pornography side. I have actually watched porn that looked the same.

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[–] Megamel_99 12 years ago

Who cares? They were consenting adults and they weren't hurting anyone. That's all that should matter. If people don't want to watch the movie, they don't have to.

"Shakespeare was a genius. He was the president of Rome." Workaholics

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[–] DCI77 11 years ago

>>They were consenting adults and they weren't hurting anyone.

Exhibit A: The mediocrity of post modernism.

2013 Most Anticipated - Stoker, The Spectacular Now, Frances Ha

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[–] ilaritoivonen 12 years ago

Can you guys PLEASE tell me whats the gap between sex on-screen in the name of art and for pornography purposes? Only thing I can think of is the actual sex in "art films" never feels good to watch. I think only reason to show sex is making people feel good and as long as actors/actresses feel comfortable *beep* each other :D That is why I think that from audience point of view theres no difference between porn/art. Porn is being judged because it objectifies human and because
some studios abuses the actresses and they dont all do it bu their own choise. If its made sure thats not the case then there is no harm done, and if someone dont want to see sex, theres plenty of *beep* whitout...

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[–] Elder_Yautija 12 years ago

Although I agree with everything else you say: Shortbus is a great work of art? Jesus *beep* Christ...

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