MovieChat Forums > Monsieur Ibrahim et les fleurs du Coran (2004) Discussion > Three Questions (SPOILERS)

Three Questions (SPOILERS)

posted 20 years ago by kgrayson
20 replies | jump to latest

I have three questions about the story of the movie, which I hope someone out there might be able to answer.

1. Early in the film, Moses comes into Ibrahim's store complaining about how his father only thinks about his older brother Paulie. Ibrahim responds by saying that he prefers Momo 100 times more than Paulie -- which gave me a sense that Ibrahim once knew Paulie. But later, from Momo's mother, we learn that there was never an older brother. There seems to be a contradiction here (?).

2. When Moses reminds his father that it's his birthday, his dad says something like "Has it been eight years already?" Does that mean we were supposed to believe that Moses was eight? I know he wasn't quite sixteen yet, but eight? Was the father maybe referring to eight years since the wife left?

3. The police come to tell Moses that his dad has died, and Moses runs into Ibrahim's store. After the police ask Ibrahim a few questions about Moses, Ibrahim asks the police to step into the back so they can discuss things away from Moses. What was that all about? I thought maybe Ibrahim knew something about Moses that Moses didn't know, but this was never later revealed. Why did Ibrahim take the police into the back?

[–] radiohed-1 20 years ago

1) Ibrahim probably did not know whether or not Moses had a brother, but he had already taken a liking to Moses, so, he wanted Moses to know that he preferred him over the brother, real or not.

2) His father said, "Is it the eigth already?", meaning that Moses' birthday was on the eigth of whichever month it was. I don't know how that could have possibly confused you.

3) Ibrahim was only being sensitive about the situation since Moses had just learned that his father had committed suicide. Moses, understandably, did not want to see his father's mangled body, so, Ibrahim asked the officer to discuss the details with him in private so that Moses would not have to deal with the gorey reality so soon. It's really best not to think too much about these things, as it is all rather simple.

[–] efan-1 20 years ago

One answer: Read the book ;-)
The Book starts with the information that Moses is an eleven-years-old boy, so it is his 12th Birthday.

[–] nzilla 20 years ago

But do you think he's supposed to be that old in the movie? I think they changed that. What I understood was that he had saved up his money and waited until his sixteenth birthday (I assume the age of consent in France) to start seeing prostitutes. There really doesn't seem to be anything in the movie to indicate that he's lying about his age—he keeps talking with Ibriham about how he's small for his age. The actor was sixteen at least, and while certainly small, he seemed older than twelve. Also, the scene in school looked a little advanced for twelve-year-olds, though I suppose that could just be us dumb Americans.

[–] femmefatale895 20 years ago

No, he was really 12 when he started seeing those prostitutes. I think what happened was he first tried to sleep with Fatou, but she knew that he wasn't of age so she rejected him. He then went to bed with Sylvie once he lied to her and told her he was 16 years old. Then after that, I guess the other girls all found him cute and believed he was old enough so they agreed to have sex with him. After his dad tells him his teeth are crooked and needs braces, M. Ibrahim tells him that the girls wont believe that he's 16 with a mouth full of metal.

The math wasn't too complex, it was just triangles, wasn't it? I would think they're included in most curriculum in the 7th grade.

[–] nzilla 20 years ago

I still interpret him as actually being 16, but I guess there's really no way of knowing.

They were doing the Pythagorean Theorem or something with a bunch of triangles, maybe they were vectors, it's been awhile since I saw the movie. It looked advanced enough to be something that you'd do in about grade 10. In my high school, grade 9 was generally Algebra I and grade 10 was usually Geometry of about the level it looked like in the movie, though I personally advanced quicker and was doing that sort of stuff when I was twelve, but my math classes in school were all self-paced so you didn't have to stick with the whole class's pace. That said, I have Japanese math book for around 9th or 10th grade that has some Calculus topics in the back section, so you can't really tell how other countries go. The other students in the class looked older than 12 though, I think.

I did a Google search and found that most reviews and stuff buy him as 16, but I know that really means nothing.

Also, I know people develop at different rates, but personally, at 12 I wasn't interested in sex enough yet to actually seek it out if I had a chance.

Whatever, it's really not that important, is it?

[–] tjrudebeck 18 years ago

Actually, the first line of the book is "When I was eleven years old, I broke my piggy bank and I went to visit the whores." (Well, it's that, in French.)

[–] knutsinger 20 years ago

to your Point 2.:
I saw this film in French language with German subtitles and first thought this, too, for a second. But Momos father says: "Oh, it´s the eighth already" and means the eighth of the month and not the eighth birthday..

Funny: The Birthday of the actor Pierre Boulanger ist the 8th (of August), too...

[–] rtideas 20 years ago

In reply to question 1, I speculate Paulie may have been the man for whom his mother left his father.
In reply to question 3, I think he took the cops to back room to pay them off.

[–] reversetheaccesscode 20 years ago

I thought he had a younger brother named Paulie. Doesn't the mother say, "Moses was my first child." I think that implies that there must have been more than one, otherwise she would have said, "Moses was my only chid." Granted, I was reading subtitles. Also, I now have a question. Why would he have to pay off the police?

"I have no fear; I have only love." ~Stevie Nicks

[–] femmefatale895 20 years ago

Mmm, I think it would be safe to infer that Paulie would have been his older brother. During the flashback, he was fairly young and the mother and "brother" had already left, because he asks his father when his mom would be coming back. The father wishes Moses were like Paulie, so he must have obviously been older than Momo, because how could you can't really compare a baby to an 8 year old boy.

Someone suggested to me that maybe Paulie was a child from another woman, but I think that would be reading way too much into it.

I think that person was suggesting that he might pay off he police so that Moses would not have to go and identify the torn up body, but again, I dunno about that.

[–] ilahilda 9 years ago

I think he was 16, he looked it. Plus a lot of teens have braces.

[–] lierrevene 20 years ago

Well first of all, I guess that Momo's dad really just made Paulie up. I think he needed some back up for his kind of education ... "Paulie" is the son he would have liked to have ... but never actually did have, so he puts him as a sort of guideline for Momo, hoping that, by lecturing him about his "greater" brother, the boy would be jealous and with that try to be like him (reading books, not doing the kind of stuff he does etc.).

I think your second question has been answered. And well, for the third, of course it is an incredible shock for a young boy like Momo to hear that his dad has killed himself. It is simply out of respect for his feelings that Monsieur Ibrahim wants to talk with the policeman about the details in private.

The question further below, questioning Momo's age: Well, it is usually quite hard to find really talented kids at such a young age. In real life, the actor who is playing Momo was actually 15 at that time! The clothing of the 60's might also add a reason that the kids look older ...but that might be a speculation.

I can't really remember the details about the math-class-scene... might be that the level was a bit high for...I guess the 6th grade. I can only say that I know France quite well, and the french school-system is pretty advanced compared to others, and again, the movie is playing in the 60s where education still was a little stricter, so maybe that would explain why.

[–] alonsomex 20 years ago

The math on the board was:
There was a triangle inside a circle, the triangle is an scalene triangle, so you can apply the pitagoric theoreme into it, then this triangle had another line, which was the radius of the circle, this means that by applying the pitagoric theoreme they could know the measures of each of the triangle's sides, and by knowing the size of the one that forms the equilateral one (with the radious) they could easily know how much the radious measures an then how much is the perimeter, area or any other thing of that circle.
I never had to solve a problem like that, ofcourse mexican school system sucks (by the way, if I have any of these terms wrong, I am sorry, I learned them in spanish and I had to google them) and I remember learning about the pitagoric theoreme until I was inb 9th grade or so and I was 14 back at that time.

[–] Mariana Cornejo 19 years ago

Hey, Alonso.

I'm mexican and I DID have to solve a problem like that when I was at secondary school. A public one. I know that the mexican shool system sucks for you, (cada quien habla como le va en la feria), but I guess that inside that system there are different levels of quality. I was lucky. But also I liked to study and many of my classmates didn't. I'm not throwing any innuendo at you. All I'm saying is that a student can get a better profit of that system if he's willing to.

By the way, did you like this film? I enjoyed it and recommend it.

Good luck, friend.

[–] alonsomex 19 years ago

hahahaha I went to a terribly expensive private school, I guess my folks threw away their money then... truth is it was a terrible school in anything related to science but very good in other stuff. I am glad that you did well in the fair (mexican idom for our american readers), restores my faith in the public school sistem.
As for the movie, it was very touching and interesting, I think anyone that has been or that understands and cares for people that face disadvantage will like this movie. Momo is a very interesting character, I like this strenght and I like the old guy's interest in other and his kindness of hearth. It is very important to have a movie like this in a time in which muslims and jews are ready to blow each other's heads off.

[–] monstre 18 years ago

1. I think that Ibrahim knew of Momo's extreme inferiority complex in regards to his brother Paulie. He didn't want to go so far as to confess that Paulie never existed, because there has already been too much confusion and complexity in his life. If he discovered that his father was potentially insane, having made up a fictitious son, it may overpower Momo. So, Ibrahim wanted to express his intense affection toward him, and explain that Paulie was not better by any means.

2. Dunno.. Good question

3. I just assumed that this was all too much for Momo, and it would have been better to talk about the matter out of ear's reach.

[–] melissacarroll 18 years ago

Okay, I'll give the first one a shot.

In the shot of Momo painting the apartment, just before you see his mother, you see a framed photo of the parents holding an infant. My theory is that Paulie was the father's brother. If the era and casting was consistent with the book, it doesn't seem a stretch that the father could have lost a brother during the war, perhaps in a camp. If so, while still young himself, he could have become obsessed with measuring up to Paulie.

[–] ladyofshallot 18 years ago

we watched this in french class and my teacher explained paulie to us, i'm trying to remember what she said. moise's father would have been living around the time of the holoucaust and my teacher said that paulie was most likely his younger brother who was killed in a camp or something. moise's father can't deal with the guilt of his brother dying and himself living and therefore talks about him all the time.

a babe of the 'burg.