Sean Penn's film - 11'09''01 - September 11 (2002) Discussion

[–] famfr101 18 years ago

Great Interpretation man, it's great to see more opinions of this film, mainly because it took me a lot of brains to actually get an OPINION about this film, anyways i interpretated that one of the problems with america was this innocent anti-patriotism, how is this?, well, you can see that borgnine's character was crying for his wife but not because of the attack, this is because he loved his wife, but he just didn't had any reason to turn the TV on and see what's happening, he didn't had any reason to love his country, it's not that he was a bad man, it's a problem about this BIG lie that says that "every american loves his country and would die for it", this problem also occurs in a lot of parts of the world, like in Venezuela, my homeland.

Another interesting point of view that i came up with is the fact that this incident happened when you were doing your most mundane things, you were waking up and getting ready to work, it was an ordinary day, until this happened, and as lostsixseconds said, waking up, realizing that something is happening, not only to America, but to the world.

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[–] chizzie_shark 18 years ago

i personally think this film gives an insight into the coldness of society and the suffering of the marginalised. the entire short basically depicts this old man and how he lives his life, and makes us feel for him. then that is juxtaposed against the falling of the towers, and we see that when they collapse, he doens't even know. he's asleep. thus penn makes us question: how much does the collapse of the towers relate to him? he's been ignored, forgotten and isolated, so what do the falling of the towers mean to him? sean penn is comparing a personal tragedy to a more collective tragedy: which one is more important? also note that when the towers collapse, light floods into the room, making the dead flowers grow. so, while collapse of the towers is a terrible event, could it on the other hand be considered a good thing for this marginalised old man?

*********
Tell them the horizon is an imaginary line that recedes as you approach it.

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[–] dopeuser8 18 years ago

I just watched this on TV, to be honest I was a bit disappointed.
I remember when this movie first came out, it was labelled as anti-American, and everyone wanted it banned, and a lot of Americans were mad at Sean Penn for being a part of this film.
But anyways, regarding Sean Penn's film, first of all, I saw it on TV, so I really need to see it again to be sure, but what time did that guy wake up in the morning? I kinda thought he said 7 or 8, maybe I misheard, but the first tower fell at about 10:00AM, so I don't see how the light coming through the window woke him up. I did notice he looked at the alarm clock like it was broken the day before that, but he said earlier (to his dead wife) that he gets up before the alarm goes off anyways.
Besides that point, which I could be wrong about, the point of these films is to show a different perspective of 9/11. Other films showed people from other countries, and this showed someone from the States. Its just a non-typical way that 9/11 affected someones life differently than what you've seen on the news.
So I just wanted to say something, because with the kind of protest I heard when this movie was first being released, I expected this movie to be mocking or insulting to Americans, and I didn't find that at all.

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[–] thepiecesfit 18 years ago

I read it as a methaphor for the collapse for capitalism. While bringing light the effects are not pretty. The towers were a symbol for money and greed. I think possibly that is what sean penn is attempting to convey.

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[–] OneFilmLover 18 years ago

Sean Penn's short was the least impressive of the bunch I felt.

And as for the comment that Penn had the towers fall for representing money and greed, god I hope thats not the case. Because Penn sure isn't an actor who does work for free.

He's a good actor but an ass in real life

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[–] Brimac98 18 years ago

I thought Sean Penn's short was one of the best (as well as Ken Loach's and the one from Mexico) and has one of Ernest Borgnine's greatest performances.

The light symbolizes the shock of the US entering this new world that we all now know--one "post-9/11"--a world of the harshest of realities, unclouded by the sentiment characterised by life in America in the years after WWII as well as the denial of international events ever having any effect on daily life in the cities.

Also the use of Ernest Borgnine, whose career spans a couple iconic works of the era: the New York of 1955 in "Marty", the change of the western in the Vietnam era in "The Wild Bunch", to name just two.

This may be a somewhat simplistic way at looking at the piece and everyone will have their own interpretation.

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[–] niceguymik 18 years ago

Sean's film was easily the best of the bunch.

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[–] stugotsIII 18 years ago

If that is true, he is a hypocrite.

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[–] thistincanphone 18 years ago

He should have finished it right when the tower fell and let the sun in. Everything after diminishes the simple message:

The guy lived in a *beep* dark flat because that's what he was reduced to, and one day the sun came out. Pure irony.

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[–] ptoza 18 years ago

I think Penn raised a lot of intresting questiones without imposing them too obviously. The answers we found are the reflection of who we are, and what we recognized as questions in the first place. This makes him as impartial as the story teller can possibly be. This is why i wouldn't call this neither pro- or anti- american story.

The first time i saw it i was very impressed so i saw it a couple more times and, just for the fun of it, each time i tried not to take into account a different story element. Ie.: try to ignore the date of the story. Try just to see an average day in the life of this man. He wouldn't be more lonely even if he was stranded on a desert island. Stop there. Go back. Try to see this story from the wievpoint that his average day within secounds turns into possibly the best day of his life, and another couple of secounds latter into the worst day in his life. Than consider that on top of all that some hours latter, or tomorrow morning at the latest, he will find out that his country is attacked by terrorists. How will that knowledge make him feel? Also try to just observe the myriad details contained within the story and the way it was told and displayed. Wait till you're done with dissecting it on a basic level, and then move on to the parallels and metaphores and whatnot suggested by Lostsixseconds (- the author of the first post). At least that is how i approached it. ;)

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[–] cathstuart-1 18 years ago

Sept 12 2006 (The Fifth Anniversary here has just finished. This movie has just been played on our TV station SBS. It has been a sad day of remembrance.)

I can't believe people in the US have claimed that any of these short films are "anti-American". I always took the last one (the Japanese one) to be allegorically portraying Osama bin Laden as a snake, for God's sake! It just debunks the concept of "holy war", no matter who is carrying it out.

But the Sean Penn film is a moving portrait of a private tragedy, I believe it is the finest thing I have ever seen Ernest Borgnine do. It is just that he is unconscious of what exactly is impacting on his life (as he has become competely deluded and disengaged from reality); although he is conscious, in for him an agonising way, of its consequences (the shadow disappearing).

I found it fascinating reading the posts here from people looking for the 'deeper symbolic meaning' of the film. I simply hadn't considered it that way.

It reminds me of a story someone told me back in 2001 (its truth or falsity I cannot vouch for). They said during the invasion of Afghanistan, post Sept 11, there were discovered these tribes living under the ground. They had come out to ask why people had come to bomb them, why their roofs were being shelled and the ground was shaking. They listened as people tried to explain to them the meanings of the words "America", and "New York", and "World Trade Centre", and how high the buildings had been, and how many people had been in them, and how planes had been flown into them.

The tribes people though about it, struggled to understand the meaning of it all, and asked, "Is it because the buildings were so tall, is that why they wanted to destroy them?"

Whether this story is true or not, there were millions of people around the world that day who had no conception, at that moment, of what that day would mean to them in the near future. They had their own tragedies.

There were millions who had an inkling, though, as they were watching events unfold, horrified. I was one of them, watching the late news in Sydney Australia.

Those events are still as sickening to contemplate, the suffering of all those people, still as wrenching to think of, five years later.

One thing I think has changed is the attitude of many Americans; there is more questioning, dialogue and seeking for understanding. Less "Kill 'em all" and "You're either with us or against us".

The world still loves America. It is just much sadder and sicker about it.

Cath, Sydney Australia.

Now I have to turn off our Prime Minister. He makes me sadder and sicker too.

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[–] carbon-made 18 years ago

I, too cannot believe how people can brandmark this movie as anti-american. Mainly because I feel it is absolutely wrong to never question your own country, believes and systems. I still can't get over the fact that the majority of America chose not to ask themselves why Sept 11 happened. It doesn't justify it, it doesn't mean you agree or welcome it. But to find out why other people hate you and want to kill you might help. But somehow, I fear, people are just too selfish.

Concerning this episode, I always thought of the old man being a metaphor for the USA. Living in a bubble, in a fake world, not wanting to realize what is real. When the Towers fell and light came into the room, the USA (the old guy) woke up. That's why he is crying so much. He first wa full of joy because of the flowers (which, in my opinion, might stand for the possibility of being able to change things now you woke up. When something horrible happens, you usually can learn and grow from it, and in this case, whilst it may sound extremely cruel, the USA has had the chance of changing. Well, they didn't.)

He wanted to show the beautiful flowers to his wife and says "Look at these flowers!" Then, he starts repeating "You should have seen this, God you should have seen this" and this sentence turns into pure desperation. I think, he then realizes he is alone, he then realizes what happened and suddenly, with this new found knowledge, knows things will never be the same.
As it was for the USA.

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[–] ajaddiction2004 9 years ago

He is a hypocrite and hates the bill of rights.

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[–] heartburnhenry 17 years ago

Interesting. I had not looked at it that way when I saw it.

My first impression was that the character played by Borginine was innocently happy that the shadow was gone, since now his plant could get light. It was some kind of instinctive reaction to the sunlight. I also felt that Sean Penn was saying that these towers were symbols of cold capitalism that didn't allow nature to grow around them. So, at first, I thought the film was very anti-American, or at least anti-American capitalism. When I watched it again, my view of it changed slightly. I thought that yes, Borginine was happy his plant got the light, but it was just a momentary naive passing happiness, until he realized what was happening. That death and destruction were outside at the same time.

I still think there's an anti-capitalism edge to the film, and I also feel that Sean Penn was saying that everything is double sided and can be looked at from multiple angles.

By the way, I was not a big fan of this compilation of films, in general.

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[–] palefacetsw 17 years ago

These are all great and insightful interpretations of his particular short, but I think everyone is missing the point of this film as a whole. The film was made to show, in a semi-documentarian way, how the 9/11 attacks affected the whole planet, not just America. Sean Penn is one of my personal heroes, as I am a liberal Democrat. But partisan politics aside, he showed that not everyone was glued to a tv that morning. I read a story somewhere about a guy who was supposed to be in the south tower working that morning, but instead was at his mistress' house having sex with her. When the first tower was hit, the guy's wife began frantically calling his cell, which was turned off. When he finished and left her house (which was on Long Island), he turned on his cell which immediately rang. He answered calmly, and his wife began to sob uncontrolably, as I'm sure we all would, after hearing a voice which we presumed to be dead. When he calmed her down, she asked where he was. He nonchalantly said "In my office, where else would I be?". Needless to say, a swift divorce followed. Just because 95% of the USA was glued to a tv or radio, doesnt mean that Sean Penn is unamerican because he showed an account of a man who was oblivious to the whole outside world, an attack on US soil included. Sean is an excellent director, actor, and person in general. The rest of the film was just as good. My wife and I are both getting a tattoo of the sentence in arabic from this film..."Does the light of God guide us, or blind us?" Bravo to all 11 directors.

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[–] Arnkell 16 years ago

I don't concern myself with overinterpreting this short with Ernest Borgnine, I just thought it was a very very beautiful film, coinciding with the fall of the towers. That something good might come from it (awareness and perhaps coping for the man) was good enough to me, and I was moved by it, not the least because I have never seen Borgnine in a vulnerable role, only as effortless, chirpy, santa-clausy and extremely 2-dimensional characters. Now I wish I had seen more of his stage acting.

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[–] edhar 16 years ago

People what is wrong with you all? The message of Sean Penn's masterpiece is so easy to undestrand. It is simply that the worst and awfull thing that could happen is an opportunity to AWAKE! As the old man awaked by the sunglow and realizing his wife was dead. As you USA, AWAKE! Leaves on! there is a great work to do, refound the bases of a democracy and a system based on freedom and selfdetermnination that is corrupted and missguided in a bunch of lies.

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[–] laduejen2012 15 years ago

I tried my best to understand all eleven segments, and think all of them hold their own.

That said, Sean Penn's was the most enlightening for me. Maybe I'm just a bit top simplistic and don't lend myself to metaphors all too well, but his segment provided a very nice canvas that every viewer could paint their picture of. What I mean is, I found his to be the most relateable and it let me have my own interpretation of it.

Most of the other segments, while beautiful and thought-provoking as well, just seemed to be a bit more forceful in the ideas they were trying to convey.

The story of this blissfully unaware old man was heartbreaking and understandable, and really provided a 180 turn-around from the standard American reaction to September 11th.

It was so...almost naive. A man's flowers finally glowing because the collapse of the towers allowed the sunlight to shine through. Well, naive isn't the perfect word...but it was sort of childlishly joyous, but tragic and almost ignorant. These words aren't conveying exactly what I want to say, but I hope my point is understandable.

'Ello, Beastie!

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[–] TheAnimalMother 11 years ago

"was the moment all of the world, especially America, woke up from their ideas that the world was at peace"

Only the severely ignorant thought the world was at peace. No realistic person believed that.

My body's a cage, it's been used and abused...and I...LIKE IT!!

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[–] lampadaire20002 10 years ago

i saw this movie & i think Sean Penn tried to draw a simple message : everyone think 9/11 is a tragedy but in fact it's a very cool & fun thing because it helped flowers on the balonies to grow !
oh god, i ..admit : i didn't caught a single drop of this movie's meaning. ..it left me with a feeling of darkness and confusion and i was staring at screen thinking : what on earth is it supposed to symbolize ? i have even considered Sean Penn suggesting us that this poor old friggin bum was the ONE who planned the attack , but why HIM? why Ernest Borgnine? and why not Harry Dean Stanton instead? (who seems way more guilty since he NEVER mentionned 9/11 in any interview !)
I then have read every comments on this thread and i must say none of them convinced me : i just think Sean Penn was on a deadline five seconds before to reveal the pitch of his shorts in front of the producers and quickly thought : 9/11 = towers faliing = less shadow = SUN... and just improvized with that last minute algorythm

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