MovieChat Forums > Kingdom Hospital (2004) Discussion > Another liberal feel good story

Another liberal feel good story


Let's do a thought experiment: Separate all the characters from KH into "good guys" and "bad guys." Dr.Hook, Mrs. Druse, injured artist guy, most of the lady doctors, mentally "challenged" orderlies, etc. = Good. Steg, his girlfriend, the crazy torturer doctor, the mill owner, etc = Bad.

Now, assuming this was set in current day America, who did these characters vote for in the last Presidential election?

Obviously, this is somewhat influenced by your own political feelings, but also to a large degree by what the writers intended. What you know of these characters is what the story told you. If Steg had a dog and a cat at home that he was really nice to, we wouldn't know it because we weren't told about them, right?

If Mrs. Druse was a secret white supremacist, we don't know because the writers didn't tell us. The point is that what we think about the characters and the story is what the writers want us to think. Which brings me to the main point: While I liked it overall OK, it sometimes feels like a lot of movies these days are written for the sole purpose of convincing the liberal artists behind them, as well as the liberals in the audience that they really ARE the good guys.

They seem to be frantically trying to reassure themselves, "We're good... We're right!... Conservatives are evil!" They seem so subconciously defensive about it. In this one, they seem afraid to even tell the audience about their ridiculously biased world view until the last episode. Like they're afraid people are so tired of the old "Mean, evil (and of course incompetent as well) corporate boss doesn't care about people at all; only money" storyline would make people tune out if they reveal it too soon. Of course this presumes that big rich corporations ARE predominantly run by conservatives, which is increasingly shown as another liberal delusion.

I will admit that the story had some up-front religious allegory, even literal lifting of biblical story, but it was limited to the "good" Jesus stuff, not the "Bad, judgemental" religious stuff. (By the way, not all us conservatives are religious.)

It's just so over the top. They say to themselves, WE were for child labor laws, WE are the noble, open minded ones who believe in ghosts and spiritualism, THEY are blind fools who can only believe what their machines or their crazy god tell them. The RIGHT tried to stop labor reforms about exit doors and fire extinguishers. WE had to champion the rights of The Worker by establishing Labor unions.

Yeah, Hollywood keep telling yourselves we'd all be in Hell if it weren't for your noble causes. Those of us with a brain can actually do the research ourselves, now that there's more information available than just what Walter Cronkite and Dan Rather want us to know. Ho, Hum; your stories are getting a bit stale and predictable, which is a good part of the reason people aren't watching them as much anymore.

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If you vote republican you are pro mass murder, it really is that simple - the blood is on your hands.

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Well thank you for a thoughtful, point by point refutation of my crazy right wing ramblings. Excuse me, I have some kittens to strangle now....

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I don't think there is a need at all to intellecutalize about a government which has caused 100,000s of civilian deaths in Iraq on highly dubious grounds.

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Ah, yes. I was going to guess that was the "mass murder" to which you referred. Aside from the dubious accuracy of your often repeated "statistic" perhaps you are forgetting the millions of people killed by dictators around the world which the American left either now actively worships and want our country to emulate or at least wanted us to appease and leave to their own devices?

Let me just throw out a few names to aid in your research.

Neville Chamberlain. The National SOCIALIST Party [NAZIs]. Mao Tse Tung. Lenin. Stalin. Che Guevara. Fidel Castro. (History is not my best subject- someone better could easily come up with more I'm sure...)

Also, your canard about all the civilians we killed conveniently forgets to tally up how many were SAVED by getting rid of Sadam which you all were perfectly happy to leave alone to continue to feed civilians into wood chippers and the like. Now how much blood was on the right's hands again? And how much is on yours?

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Saddam Hussein was put into power by the help of the USA. USA sold weapons to Iraq. CIA also provided intelligence that allowed Saddam to capture and execute thousands of communists.

A force of good in the world indeed.

Saving civilians from tyranny is completely inconsequental, it's just a post fact argument used to justify invasion. There are certainly better places to invade if the aim is to save civilians, these countries might not have the same amount of oil though.

Thanks for all the straw men, they completely justify all the barbarism of dear old W.

Of course reliable statistics are hard to come by when they are being actively suppressed, however most studies put the amount of civilian deaths between 100,000 to 1,000,000

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So first you ignored the entire point of my original post, that entertainment is desperate to reassure liberals of their moral superiority in favor of the standard "Republicans are evil warmongers" charge.

Then, when I allowed you to change the subject and responded to that limp accusation with examples of all the civilians (your word) liberals are responsible for the deaths of by their determination to look the other way you ignored that point and went on with your liberal talking points from the Bush Presidency. (How long did you have to search for those old documents?)

Have no response to the charge that left wing dictators have killed millions while the American left was silent, eh? No response to the charge that if we listened to all of YOUR heroes including the current President Saddam would still be there killing his people, eh? What a shock.

It's pointless to try and debate with people that have no response to any points made against them, and who are just determined to spew the lies fed to them by their many comrades in education, media and the internet.

There you go; since I've said I'm not bothering with such a hopeless unintellectual left wing parrot any longer the field is clear. You can now throw out all the rest of your left wing lies with no fear of losing the "argument."

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@warren_houghton on Wed Sep 15 2010 07:42:56
....Neville Chamberlain. The National SOCIALIST Party [NAZIs].....

I know is't an old post but please ensure your facts are correct.

The National SOCIALIST Party <> NAZIs
The National SOCIALIST Party = water down communists

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True, when I wrote it I just went by memory; I'm no history or linguistic scholar, so I've looked up the exact translation:

"It is a nickname for Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (National Socialist German Workers' Party). The nickname is based on the first two syllables, as pronounced in German and was already current in 1923 in Bavaria."

So perhaps this is like that argument that when the American Republican party was formed back in Lincoln's time (?) they were actually liberals and Democrats were conservative? Again, I'm no historian; it doesn't interest me all that much, but I've grown to understand some aspects of history as well as most supposedly "educated" people do. I suspect most people just assume that since Nazis were brutally repressive and violent they must have been right wing, since that's the impression of the right that they're generally given in school, the media and entertainment.

They chose to put "socialist" in their name, and as I understand it, much of their policy was socialistic.

Oh, now I see the problem.... It looks like I was saying "The National Socialist Party" are Nazis. Sorry if that's a current name for a real organization. I didn't intend to insult any other Socialist parties; I was just giving the rough translation of what Nazi stood for. Sorry if that was misleading; it wasn't my intention.

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Oh good God! Does retarded run in your family or did it start with you?

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warren,
you do realize this is a remake of a foreign television series called...

the kingdom or "riget" proper. while it strayed, most of the characters you sited were from that much older show at least in spirit.

Are you really just so blindly angry you don't see the insanity of trying so hard to make this show something American political and rage against it because it supposedly differs from your political point of view?

get therapy or go to a political board to properly vent your opinion. preferably the former sounds like you may need it.

If your gonna hate it, hate it because it was a poor remake with too many pointless plot changes.

Ok you didn't like the film,
But why so much hatred over a movie?
You need a man hug

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Of course I know that it's originally Danish or Finnish or whatever. I'm pretty sure Europe has a political left and right as well; you don't think European entertainment has the same left bias that ours does? They copy everything else American pop culture does. I've never seen the original version, but any number of changes to the story were no doubt made in translating it to an American version; the left wing bias could have been there originally and consciously left in, or added in rewriting. (probably the former) The story certainly could have been modified to tone down the left wing bias had they wanted to, but I'm sure that would never occur to the American creative people.

What I watched was an American piece of entertainment for American audiences. I believe I clearly said I liked it OK, I just get very tired of the endless subtle and not so subtle attempts to convince everyone through all aspects of their life (education, news, entertainment etc.) that conservatism is stupid and evil and liberalism is intelligent, rational and good. I posted my feelings on an entertainment board in the hope that some might still have enough objectivity to start NOTICING the more subtle attempts to brainwash them while being entertained.

Even you are demonstrating that you believe me to be "blindly angry" exhibiting "insanity" and "rage" and in need of therapy simply for saying essentially "Look, entertainment industry, why don't you start expanding your list of villains beyond just conservatives; it's getting really old." I wonder why you might believe anyone expressing that opinion must be insane?

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I agree that Hollywood is very unoriginal and tend to fall back to tired cliches, in everything and then remaking it and butcher it.
but really I'm tired of conservatives and liberals alike, both are plagues on common sense when they fail to at least agree to disagree.


btw: your comments on this board:

"It's pointless to try and debate with people that have no response to any points made against them, and who are just determined to spew the lies fed to them by their many comrades in education, media and the internet.

There you go; since I've said I'm not bothering with such a hopeless unintellectual left wing parrot any longer the field is clear. You can now throw out all the rest of your left wing lies with no fear of losing the "argument."

sounds like a fox news viewer.....(fox and news, that is a oxymoron)



anyway,

believe what you like, just stay grounded in reality. If you take offense I apologize.

But check out the original series if you get the chance, netflix has both parts on streaming and though dated I thought it was decent.





Ok you didn't like the film,
But why so much hatred over a movie?
You need a man hug

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No, I take no offense. I just wish people could debate substantive points.

What usually happens is a conservative makes one or more statements/arguments and liberals swoop in and ridicule the person for being a stupid, uneducated, crazy, fox news watching conspiracy nut while claiming not to be a liberal.

When a liberal makes one or more statements/arguments maybe one conservative will respond and they will address and attempt to refute the liberal's arguments. The guy that quote was responding to was using a slightly different tactic which allows them to seem more rational and intelligent. Rather than just hysterically ridiculing the opponent he just rattled off liberal talking points that were unresponsive to the original argument and not particularly cogent relating to the alternate argument he wanted to change the subject to. After two chances to respond to ANY argument I had made I gave up responding to him.

All of you guys who seem to satisfy yourselves that you don't need to think about any points conservatives make because they obviously watch fox news, which makes them complete idiots should consider that conservatism was around long before fox news. It's the EFFECT not the cause. If your side hadn't completely corrupted objective journalism Fox news would not exist.

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[deleted]

I haven't seen the American re-make, but I've come to understand that the characters sticks pretty closely to the Danish one. If this is indeed the case, your arguments based on the series are misplaced for a couple of reasons.

First, you can't equate the American and Scandinavian left/right axis, as the Scandinavian right is liberalistic/royalistic, while the left is socialistic/democratic. Thus the conservative right wing parties in Scandinavia are anti-republican royalist. The way the Scandinavian states work, being sociodemocratic kingdoms, is really so fundamentally different from the US, that it's very hard to draw parallels at all...

Second, while the writer of the original series is a catholic (thus typically a conservative/royalist), the good guy in the series is in many ways rebelling against a typical Scandinavian socialist hospital structure, marked by strict laws and a strong bureocracy.

"Of course I know that it's originally Danish or Finnish or whatever." -Way to make yourself fit the uninformed- Fox-watching- republican- redneck stereotype by the way...

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Wow, until that last line I had a fair amount of respect for your post; obviously you are pretty well informed about Danish government, which I never would claim to be. Turns out my first recollection of the country of origin was right, but in an attempt to avoid sounding "uninformed" I hedged my bet on my memory. How many people that watched the American version do you suppose even know that it came from even a European source? I simply couldn't remember which of those Scandinavian countries I had read it originated in. Expecting the average moderately well informed American to keep Holland, Sweden, Denmark, Finland etc. straight is like expecting the average European to keep Californians, Texans and New Englanders straight. Wanna go poll some Danes and see how they do?

You may very well be right that the politics of the respective countries is different enough to matter, but I'd be willing to bet that eventually someone would attempt to minimize my post with the same "there-are-no-parallels" argument no matter what country it came from. There is a very common schism between left and right political thought around the world, so common as to appear to me to be based in a very basic binary difference in brain development or structure. Recently I heard of a study linking it to genetic predispositions combined with early environmental factors.

Regardless, as I said in an earlier response, my comment was made on an American production. Unless you claim that the American creative people said, "gee, we'd really like to change how that factory owner thinks-- he's just so over the top stereotypical conservative; but we just can't tamper with the original author's creative intent..." then my point remains valid. Whether you substitute "conservative" with "liberalist" or "royalist" the attitudes of the individual characters correspond to American conservatives and liberals. And we both know which of those two sides the authors of this miniseries would like everyone to be on.

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The coin goes both ways and it always will. Liberals are going to think "evil evil conservatives" and conservatives are going to think "stupid evil liberals" but it really doesnt matter because politics is BS. The system is always going to stay the same and the middle class will continue to be screwed regardless of what party is in power. Voting is really the illusion of choice and neither you or I have any real say on changing things. Go ahead and get a bunch of people together and write your congressman on an issue you're passionate about, see how long it takes you to get a response, and when you do its a BS automated one. The media continues to put people against each other, MSNBC hates on the rightwingers, Fox News hates on the leftwingers and all news media spreads fear.



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True story.

"When chemists die, we barium".

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I agree with you, Kristoe, EXCEPT that the caharacters are NOT very close to their Danish counterparts. Riget/The Kingdom is one of my all time favourite tv-shows, and though I've watched it several times, I at first had a hard time figuring out who was supposed to be who (except for Steg, Druse, Abel and Christa) in Kingdom Hospital, because the characters strayed soooo far from their, well, character and story arcs.

...just sayin'...

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Ah, and you agree with Kristoe except about the characters matching up. Which means you already knew all about that stuff about Liberalists/Royalists and typical Scandinavian hospital structures. My aren't you just the international scholar. Either that or you're from a Scandinavian country.

Of course, it occurs to me that if the characters and storyline are as different as you say they are in the two shows why would it be so impossible for political bias to have been part of the difference? And that was your original complaint, that I apparently see politics where it isn't. Tempted to watch the original now to see if the bad guy was a greedy uncaring capitalist, or if the liberals were all wise good guys.

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Danish or Finnish or whatever??
That is so ignorant, that I can't take any of your ramblings seriously. But again, republicans ae known for their ignorance, so no surprise there.

...just sayin'...

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Someone else already did that insult. I was correct in my recollection but hedged just in case I was wrong. When you can show me a reasonable number of Americans watching KH that even KNOW it wasn't a Steven King story, even clever, sophisticated, culturally aware liberals I'll be insulted. Or a Dane, Swede or Finn who can tell the difference between someone from Maine and someone from Alaska.

And my, you really do have to stretch to find a reason to completely discount anything I said so you can avoid having to think about whether I might be right. I mean... "so ignorant" for not being sure which Scandinavian country the show was originally made in? Go check wikipedia and see how many American shows YOU knew were originally British. Let me guess: the ones with Simon Cowell, right?

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Conservatives tend to be the a$$holes in modern society. Just saying. It's not our fault everyone sees you as misogynists and homophobes. That's all you and your constant attempts to restrict the rights of women and deny gays the right to marry. If you don't want people to hate conservatives, then stop being easy to hate.

 EVERYTHING IS AWESOME!!! 

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I loved this show, and chose to view it as pure escapism, but I can definitely see where you're coming from. More and more, modern Hollywood is perpetuating the Liberal vs. Conservative fabrication to keep people divided, and this is no exception.

"When chemists die, we barium".

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Please people, can a movie be entertainment without everybody jumping on the political bandwagon??? Its' probably why Hollywood has gone comic book crazy, cuz everyone is delving into meanings in pictures that really aren't there.

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Its very telling that the OP stated his feelings on the subject and was instantly attacked by the intellectual left for being 'different'.

Cheap shot at your intelligence-check.
Throwing Foxnews in there to discredit you-check.
Attacking Bush (never Obama)-check.

Because everyone knows youre stupid if you are not liberal, getting your 'talking points' from FN (which runs counter to their MSNBC), and are a lackey for Bush and his ilk.

You should be proud OP. You obviously dont fit in with this crowd and thats a badge you can wear with pride.

And please dont hold your breath waiting on one of these intellectual leftists to point you to a message board or post where they were just as critical about Obama's 'illegal war' (with even less 'global partners' and much less congressional approval) in Libya, and you'll never hear them crying about the dead at Obama's feet. Only when it suits their pathetic ideology. Google when Obama had the little Libyan dictator killed and you'll find liberals supporting the 'death penalty'. Only when it suits their agenda.

No republican or conservative could ever do more damage to the leftist ilk in this country like they do simply by opening their superior and always-intellectual mouths to puke forth more bile.

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Goatbut29

Very well said.

Here in the UK, we seem to have the same problems with the left. Someone once said that Socialists are only good at spending other people's money - once they've bled their country to death, it is always opposition party that has to pick the country back up.

Oh yes - I note that the left have been very quiet regarding Guantanamo - still open, isn't it?

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Well anyway, I'm glad that a few people can see what my admittedly non-earth-shaking point was. I had just reached my breaking point while watching that last episode that revealed the leftist propaganda BS.

Every so often we in the conservative mainstream (i.e. the majority) just get fed up with constantly being told we're nothing more than the religious bottom 20% of the IQ bell curve, and that we're all greedy, selfish racists and bigots, and we need the wonderfully brilliant leftist elites (who destroy the economy and our international reputation every time they get control) to tell us how to run our lives in every detail because we're just too stupid to handle things ourselves.

Just amazing how they can fail to see how destructive their policies are even while they're destroying the country. But as long as leftists enjoy being in education, news media, entertainment and government jobs more than the rest of us do, we'll continue to be immersed in their alternate reality.

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Why the HELL do Americans have to bring politics into EVERYTHING?? It's getting tiresome and is downright annoying!
Like or hate the show, but stop with the effing politics! Sometimes entertainment is just entertainment, I really don't get it! Are you so narrow-minded that everything is an attack on you - and yes, it's the same whether you're Dem or Rep. it's freaking annoying and idiotic and juvenile!

...just sayin'...

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I understand where you are. I avoided politics like the plague until I was around 30 and spent around 10 years paying attention to the differences between the parties before I realized just how much difference there is between their respective politicians and policies and... ethics. I never saw politics in movies or TV shows for those first 30 years or so either. But sorry, the fact that we don't notice it doesn't mean it isn't there.

This particular miniseries is such a glaring example of trying to make conservatives out as evil fools and liberals as wise, open minded good guys that I decided to make this thread. It's not like I do this for every show or movie I've ever seen. Sometimes entertainment IS just entertainment. Sometimes it tries to push a political message but does it subtly enough that I wouldn't bother trying to get others to see it. But in this case I thought the examples I easily observed and clearly described make the bias pretty obvious to anyone with even a moderately open mind.

If you want to avoid having your sensibilities offended with political discussion I'd suggest not clicking on links labelled "Another liberal something" or "Another conservative something." Or if your country uses different terms and you don't recognize the word "liberal" I'm sorry for not warning you adequately, but surely you saw where I was heading pretty quickly. There were threads about funny goofs and which episode has the cute actress you could have bailed out into.

If you want something to think on for your future personal development, I'd suggest considering how the terms "juvenile" or "idiotic" might apply to a discussion of the deeper meanings and messages of the plot and characters of a movie/TV show. See a lot of that on Saturday morning cartoons, do you? Or Jerry Springer? Perhaps it might be YOU who needs to do some growing up.

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I know what a liberal is; I'm born in 1968 - hence my username - so no, don't watch Saturday Morning Cartoons, or any other cartoons. I'm from Denmark, we (luckily) don't get Jerry Springer here, and wouldn't watch it if we did, since I never watch any kind of talk show or reality show or somesuch, I rarely watch a tv-series.
And really, I still don't see how this is a "liberal feel good story", because then the reverend would have been made out to be a bad guy, which he most certainly weren't and noone made fun of Christians, or any political party, for that matter.
I can see how people can complain about Boston Legal being a liberal's wet dream, because that show throws it at you (and you know it will, it's a lawyer show, so politics must eventually be mentioned), but this is a show about ghosts in a hospital, a talking ant-eater and a headless dude looking for his head - I hardly find anything politic in it.
My sensibilities weren't offended, I was just annoyed that - yet again - someone has to find a political agenda in a tv-show that's so over the top as anything can be.
Now we just need you to complain about, that there's just one black nurse on the show and that the other black people on it is a camera guy who's hardly and a homeless. But wait, since you have a problem with this show being "liberal", you probably don't have a problem with the lack of black characters.


...just sayin'...

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Well I read this recent post of yours last because it was... last. As I wrote the one about your response to Kristoe I suddenly wondered whether Dann might refer to Dane. I usually can decipher the meaning in people's usernames but DannX68 just didn't scream "Dane born in 1968" to me like it perhaps should have. So I apologize; you're fully qualified to agree with Eskoe about Danish politics. TBH, your written English is better than most native English speaking internet posters, so I assumed you were Canadian or something. But as to substance:

I wasn't trying to accuse you personally of watching cartoons ("juvenile") or Jerry Springer ("idiotic"); only suggesting that discussions of political bias wouldn't be likely to be found on them.

I don't remember the Reverend anymore, but as to the "Jesus" stuff, I addressed that in the OP. Liberals don't have a problem with the "suffer the children to come unto me" and "blessed are the peacemakers" kind of Jesusy stuff which is what was on KH, only the stuff where sinners are "bad." That kind of judgementalism is heinous in their view. So probably the Reverend character was portrayed as a liberal. Lots of religions in America are now fairly lefty. There was a situation recently where the Catholic church supported passing Obamacare then were shocked when they learned that it obligated them to pay for birth control and abortion. Everyone assumes (as I think I said) that Religion = Conservative but that just isn't true. I'm Conservative and atheist but was dragged to church in my youth so I kind of "get" religious people.

Yeah, there are some shows that essentially just come out and say "Republicans and Conservatives are evil and stupid," but I'm not as worried about those because they're up front about it. The majority try to mask their bias to get people to swallow it without realizing it, like wrapping a dog's medicine in ground beef. If it was obvious that every movie, show and news program was as blatant as MSNBC in their hatred of the right Democrats would lose every time. More people in this country self identify as Conservative than Liberal. Democrats survive politically only by convincing everyone that they're actually centrist and Republicans are far right. Well, that and vote fraud. And cronyism.

That's the reason I try to get people to see this subtle, hidden bias that they don't realize they're surrounded by every day. Survey teachers and they admit they're almost all liberals. Survey news people - same thing. But liberals all pretend that it doesn't affect their work at all. No, no... we're totally neutral when we teach or "inform."

B.S.

Once you start to actually pay attention to what you're constantly fed it is so EASY to see how brainwashed you are that the far left view is totally down-the-middle neutral. Every "authority" you hear from agrees that every Republican President is a moron and every Democrat President is a genius. Except that the facts and history pretty much show that this is a complete lie. But everyone believes it's just reality because that's what they hear at school, when they watch the news, and even when they go to a movie.

But back to the show... Sure there's lots of non-political weirdness, but in the final episode where the REASON for all the ghosts and weirdness is revealed, it's once again the greedy capitalist who wanted to kill all his workers and the problems are solved or at least fought by the "good guys" who are depicted as likely to be liberals.

Maybe part of the problem is you don't see that much American TV? Or just aren't aware of what a typical American liberal is likely to look like when depicted in a movie or show? I have no idea, but if you live in Denmark I can't imagine you'd be as immersed in all this bias as we are here. I'm willing to bet that you're aware of the current literal hatred of rich, greedy capitalists being whipped up by the left in our presidential election and the attempts to portray all Conservatives as such. Bet you've heard of the "Occupy Wall Street" protesters. The bad guy in this movie is exactly what they think all business owners are. Except for "green businesses" like solar energy companies that generally fail as soon as the government subsidies propping them up are removed.

Anyway, I wasn't complaining about Danish political bias present in Riget. I was complaining about American political bias in KH, so it may be understandable that you just can't see it. But again, that doesn't mean it isn't there.

P.S. It's liberals who obsess about how many of which kind of minority group are in movies/tv shows. Conservatives don't care until they go crazy making EVERY show about minorities and gays. Just tell the story you want to tell and stop worrying about what groups the characters belong to. I thought the Down's orderlies in KH were a weird, original, not unwelcome touch (if a bit unbelievably clever), but were they mentally handicapped in Riget? If not, why the change? I'm not suggesting they were put in for political reasons, only pointing out that your joking about black characters applies more to the left than the right.

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Warren you are a complete jackass with a bewilderingly good vocabulary. An idiot nonetheless.

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Yes, as a conservative surrounded by highly intelligent liberals my whole life, I had to learn fairly early the lesson that believing utterly stupid things didn't make one an idiot. I dropped out of... well, an unnamed society after one or two years when I saw how many of the members were liberals and other sorts of utopian magical thinkers. I found it quite a challenge to my view of intelligence. Perhaps one day you'll learn the same lesson, but I won't hold my breath.

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I didn't read all your hideous diatribe as it was too lengthy and pointless. This whole thread should be deleted since all you did was take a TV show and turn this forum into a place where you can express your hideous political agenda. It's a TV show. I liked it. Enough said. Move on to CNBC and write your expose of the government or Hollywood on their message board.

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And liberal feel good story is bad because?

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Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

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