Haven't been on here in a while... but I saw my old post. I figured it's time to tear you apart logically and factually, rather than hide behind a mask of subjectivity and offensiveness.
To expect society not to accept someone because you disagree with their lives and their choices is absurd and selfish.
This is called a red herring. Do you know what that is, or do I have to lecture you like a school child? This is not about acceptance, this about the purpose of labels and definitions. I didn't say I disagreed with your lifestyle, I said your lifestyle doesn't define you completely as a woman, even if you want to scream and holler and be all childish about it.
Let's think south park for a minute. Even if I feel like a dolphin, I'm not a dolphin.
I found your comments both rude and inaccurate.
Wow, I guess because you found it that way it must be so! Well golly gosh.
Ok, rude I may give you. But *beep* you, I don't care. Go cry about it. You're getting all mad about nothing.
You may think of the sole purpose of gender as procreation, but believe me when I say that you do not speak for everyone. Gender how people interact in our everyday lives even when procreation remains out of the question.
And this is called a strawman. Do I have to teach you that one too? I never said the sole purpose of gender is procreation, I said it's a definitive part of it. Just because a group of people are 'in between' our definitions does not separate the essential difference between sexes. You found a flaw in the dichotomy, we compensated for you in this dichotomy; now you're mad because you got left out of the original, normal, and natural labels. This has nothing to do with 'speaking for everyone', it speaks to truth and objectivity and that concerns nobody. You speak in non-sequiturs, just STFU before you embarrass your cause more.
And I treat you like this not because of intolerance of transexuals, but because you lack brain power. I don't have any care for who people sleep with, how they alter their body, or what they identify as; I'm going to tell you that there's a difference between transexuals and women. Woman-like (or socially woman) is not the same as woman. Simple logic; you can't defy reality just because you wish it was different.
You have a very essentialist attitude. Gender exists as a social construct. Fortunately *you* don't get to define what woman means for everyone else.
And unfortunately for you, I'm not defining what woman is, woman has been defined for ages. It's pretty much a solid word in the English language, and we have a scientific definition. It is you who is defying fact and pretending like it's a mentality. Sorry, penis' don't turn to vaginas on will power. Oh no! How could I say that? Wait, it's *beep* true.
Words don't get defined by everybody. Words are not tangible in that ultimate sense. Gender may exist as a social construct, but you can't always define as woman. Woman refers not only to that social construct, but to the make-up of the individual's nature.
If you had no problem with transsexuals you would not have made this post, nor would you feel the need to patronize.
You can't just assume why people make a post. I made the post because there was straight-up reality-denying *beep* being thrown around here. I respond whenever I feel I need to respond to *beep* Sorry, has no one but an intolerant Christian reminded you that you are capable of spouting 100% grade-A cow dung? Well you do. That's why I'm here, and that's why I'm patronizing you. Because you're *beep* dumb.
Reality has far more facets than exist in your limited definitions. I wish you well and hope that you will have life experiences that will teach you to look at things more openly.
Ironically, my definition is more expansive than yours. I include both born gender, and social gender; however just having one doesn't make you a woman, because it entails both. This is not about openness, this is about *beep* lies and attempting to change nature to fit your comfort. *beep*
if you ever saw me in the streets, or had to interact with me on a daily basis, you would never know I was anything but a woman. Society accepts me as a woman because I conform very well to our society's expectations of what a woman 'should' be. If I had cancer and was about to have an organ removed in order to keep myself alive, would I then be selfish as well?
I'd like to inform you that your analogy makes no sense. KTHX
I'd probably treat you like a woman. I would admittedly sleep with a passing transwoman, pre-op. I really don't have any hang-ups here. "She", "her", etc. Those are based on femininity. "Woman"? Sorry, not completely.
many women are born without the ability to bear children. And yes, there are women who do not have periods because of some medical concern. Predisposed? No, I am not. Nor are many other women out there.
All women are predisposed, other conditions get in the way. You are not, because you are not a woman.
oh really? Perhaps you should meet me and then you might see something different.
Won't change my mind.
I should hope that nothing medically ever happens to you that you require surgical or medicinal invertention.
Red herring. We can change some things how they are. For example, you can change your appearance from that of a man to that of a woman. You cannot change your physical gender. Medicine is something that is, and thus I use it. However, it can't change everything.
Your statement really didn't make any sense.
procreation is not always the #1 definition of gender. There are MANY people in this world who cannot procreate for whatever reasons. And there are MANY of them who shouldn't, but still do.
It is the source of the definition. If there were never two--man and woman--there would never be these words or definitions in the first place.
whatever you say. What's between your legs, or the type of reproductive organs you have, doesn't automatically make you anything. What about Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome? A child is born, perfectly female to the eye, yet genetically male, but not discovered until she begins puberty and fails to menstruate. She will be unable to procreate. Is she not a woman, even though she's been raised that, and has identified with, all her life?
That is similar to your situation, except a completely natural situation. The person would be socially a female, but biologically male. She should probably live LIKE a woman, just like you do.
I think you do have a problem with it; if you didn't, you wouldn't be making these patronizing comments. I certainly hope this never happens to anyone you love, especially your children or grandchildren.
I already contradicted this *beep* Don't pass off intellectual inadequacy on to ME.
If my children or grandchildren want to transition, then I won't get in their way.
If the only use for people is for procreation, what about heterosexual people who are sterile? Would you call a woman who is in menopause and no longer menstruates something other than a woman?
Strawman argument. I never said the only use for people was for procreation. Gender only exists because of procreation, that's different. I already clarified, as well. I said 'predisposed'.
Gender is not the same as thing as whether you were born with a penis or a vagina. Gender is in the mind. There have been scientific studies done that show that a transgendered person's brain is different than that of their born sex. Go google it before you make such blanket statements.
Do you need a dictionary, or did you just memorize it and leave it to human error? Haha, gender is not in the mind. Partly. Stop telling half-truths, nobody likes liars; not even the border-line ones. Even if their brains is different (which is obvious), it doesn't change the definition nor the origin of gender. Understanding and being tolerant is not equivalent to changing everything to fit the desires of a small interest group. Be as you are, that doesn't mean you are definitively anything and you can't change the cold hard nature of things. You can't make everything how you want; it's a ridiculous mentality.
I used to think that transgendered women were really gay men who, because of internalized homophobia, thought that the only way they could be with another man was if they were a woman. Through my work as a social worker, I met a transgendered woman who changed my views forever. She was a beautiful, talented and wonderful person. She had an incredibly hard life, however, because she was born with the body of a boy but the brain of a woman. She was denied gender reassignment surgery because she was HIV positive (this was before the new hiv medications came out). All she ever wanted was a normal life with a man who would love her. She wanted the white picket fence fantasy. When she finally realized that was never going to happen for her, she jumped off her 14th floor balcony.
Jesus, you are a big ball of illogic, aren't you? All of you are, actually.
Look, an emotional personal experience doesn't change definition nor biology. I don't think transgendered people are gay. Gay men are men who like other men. Transgendered women are biological males who change their physical appearance and lifestyle to match that of a woman; sexuality has nothing to do with it, though transwomen are apparently inclined to like men.
Could you three miss the mark more? Or are you just going to go on with your nonsensical emotional drivel concerning pipe dreams?
reply
share
Kalamata
16 years ago
This my be too simplistic for some, but the way I see it is: Gender is mutable (and originally referred only to grammatical issues, defining pronouns); Sex is forever. We are born with one sex, Male or Female (though this 'sex' has parameters that allow some gradations between feminine and masculine of that sex). 'Gender', as it has been transmogrified by usage, is something that may be user-defined. If you were born male but believe that you are female, then your gender becomes female but your sex remains male (unless they can slip that pesky X chromosome out of your DNA; short of that you are stuck). I am sure that’s all settled then, init...
reply
share
SuzyGL
15 years ago
Do you need a dictionary, or did you just memorize it and leave it to human error? Haha, gender is not in the mind. Partly. Stop telling half-truths, nobody likes liars; not even the border-line ones. Even if their brains is different (which is obvious), it doesn't change the definition nor the origin of gender. Understanding and being tolerant is not equivalent to changing everything to fit the desires of a small interest group. Be as you are, that doesn't mean you are definitively anything and you can't change the cold hard nature of things. You can't make everything how you want; it's a ridiculous mentality.
Transgendered women are biological males who change their physical appearance and lifestyle to match that of a woman; sexuality has nothing to do with it, though transwomen are apparently inclined to like men.
nyder, you are officially the most uneducated close-minded fool i have seen on interenet forums. What's worse, that you even believe what you write and make it some kind of fact, even though everyone more knowledgable see that you only talk out of your ass. First of all, go learn something about gender, where it comes from and how many genders a human being is actually born with. In short, i will only tell you that we have 1.biological, 2.anatomical and 3.psychological gender. And not each one can match - and THAT is the creation of nature as well. So when it comes to people with MTF transsexual condition the basic origin of gender is female, because the brain is the first that develops, only after that starts the biological process in the male direction, while the female brain remains the same. The brain is what makes our personality, who we are. The biology is not the first thing that defines men or women, physical appearance including structure of bones, muscles, fat, and vagina are changed through hormone therapy (and surgery) to the "perfect" imitation that not even gynecologists will find the difference, which means that biology is altered in a way, because the only things remain are original chromosomes, and their purpose is only to give the body a direction in which they should develop, either as males or females, BUT by the hormonal therapy the effectiveness of chromosomes is therefore absolutely muted and terminated. So when you start openly thinking about it, biological gender will stop playing ANY significant role in a human body after that, because its purpose is aborted, literally. Yes, nature makes women and men, but since the very beginning of our humankind, there were many mistakes on nature's part, someone could even claim that those are not mistakes at all, but intentions and challenges. Does this mean that with certain birth defects they are not 100% pure women and men?! Because then the question rises - what is actually a 100% woman and man. We all have some flaws, psychological, physical or biological. And yet we are defined by God as men and women, we are stil his children, and "you" are the only alien on this planet, i hope.
reply
share
SuzyGL
15 years ago
If you were born male but believe that you are female, then your gender becomes female but your sex remains male (unless they can slip that pesky X chromosome out of your DNA; short of that you are stuck). I am sure that’s all settled then, init...
As i have written above, many people are still not fully educated in this subject matter. Even your sex is not male anymore, because through female hormone therapy, the origin and purpose of male DNA and chromosomes is terminated. It's still there, indeed, it can be found in your blood "hybernating" literally, but its function is basically useless. It's very complicated, but look at it from the scientific and realistic point of view. Nature caused many people so many issues, that without medical help they would die, so you make things the way so they would live, nature no longer plays any role when it comes to genetic mistakes.
reply
share
nanksy
10 years ago
Oh SuzyGL, stop pretending to be a medical expert. You sound foolish. Just express your opinion as your opinion based on your experiences. You are obviously not a biologist or a medical expert.
reply
share
Ithilfaen
9 years ago
Let's think south park for a minute. Even if I feel like a dolphin, I'm not a dolphin.
 did you actually just call on South Park for reference?
For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco
reply
share