oh ok now that makes more sense
ok i do kinda see what you're saying and you're right, no one is really looking at it through the daughters eyes. but its a weird one this one, sort of catch-22.
i feel for the daughter more now but still feel for the mother.
we have a daughter who is always resentful of her mother, right from day one because she always felt neglected, like this mother figure she was looking for wasnt really there plus its common knowledge that pretty much everyone partially blames their parents for half or all the problems that have come into their life. the daughter is obviously very insecure, shes a single mother and has already suffered the breakdown of one marriage. shes clearly desperate for a man and finds one, her brothers friend, who helps her cope with life a lot better but even he happens to be married to someone else. now enter the mother she so lovingly hates or hates to love and confides in her only to find out her mother is cheating with her lover. all this happens so soon after the death of her father as well
but then we've got the mother. thrown into a life that was pretty much thrust upon her because in her days thats how they did things. no work, no education, no feminism. just leave school and settle down. and thats what she did even though she didnt really want it. had a husband who left her with the kids she, again loves to hate or hates to love, as he went to work and as they grew older together he became more of the typical boring husband, now treating his wife as his maid/nurse, someone on whom he was very dependant on even though the mother wants to escape that life and still live hers to the fullest.
shes getting treated like a maid by her boring husband, but soon becomes widowed, rejected or used by her own children, insulted by her grandkids, made to feel not wanted by her daughter-in-law, is always alone and the only person who seems to care for her and show her the slightest bit of interest is the guy who is sleeping with her daughter.
you say could have looked for some other guy which is a) easier said than done and b) a lot more easier when you've got more time on your hands to do that sort of stuff. for a woman of her age you'd be lucky to ever come across a guy who wants you let alone a guy who looks like Darren!
its always said at that age you cant afford to be choosy, she was just taking what she could get. there was no label for what they had either, dont think she ever said she felt any love or feeling for the guy but was just happy to continue bedding him for as long as it cheered her up. in many ways the mother and daughter were exactly the same, both fighting for the same man for the same reasons.
lol am i just stating the obvious here? i dunno, just analysing everything although i dont know if that really put anything into perspective. maybe its not meant to, because thats life right. confusing and doesnt always make sense or seem fair and a lot of the time we do things that we selfishly want to do without thinking about how it will affect others.
Ashmi any question
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lamont-hard
11 years ago
There you go, a much better post than before. I just feel like she was not that naive, she knew he was hot, and wanted him because, at least that was what turned her on more than the subliminal parts. It is her daughters man. She never seemed to realize or wanted to face how this would affect her. That is incredible. If she would have shown some concern and was overwhelmed by desire I maybe could have gotten on board. But there was very little if any on what she was doing. Her issues and her problems with her daughter are separate from someone betraying there child. It seemed more about her. She should have known the difference. You took time to describe marriage with her husband as if it was All bad and he should have known she was suffering. But this is maybe not the case, he treated her as he only knew. This is something that is always seems to be laid at the old husbands feet when they have mothers who bring them up this way. They don't know any other way whether they are right or wrong. What she does should in my opinion have no bearing on the type of life SHE chose to live. For her part she did stay the course with him and loved him to the end.
Also I felt the sex with the older guy was just not good to her but she looking for sex did not make an effort to enjoy it. The guy should have been at least given the benefit of the doubt....So what will she do when the next guy comes along
Your last paragraph summed this movie up best. Excellent commentary I just feel I must defend the daughter and husband.
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hodie
11 years ago
Phooey. They BOTH knew Darren was a married man, and belonged to neither one of them. They were on equal footing with regard to Darren.
"Joey, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?"
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lamont-hard
11 years ago
Yes he was married, but he was with the daughter and there was no mystery about that. She moved in on him knowing her daughter was sleeping with him. I find it to be a real stretch that you feel as you do, but to each is his own.
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hodie
11 years ago
As long as he was married he really couldn't be "with" either one of them. I think Paula was complaining about that to him when they got home one night and May could hear them arguing. She wanted Darren to tell his wife that he now wanted to be with Paula and that he was leaving her. So it's not as if Darren's marital status was insignificant.
I guess the OP was half right...Darren WAS a husband, just not Paula's or May's.
I liked the mother better than I liked Paula. At least May didn't lay her own unhappiness at the feet of HER mother. Paula was old enough that she should have accepted responsibility for her own happiness. Paula was not really a young woman herself.
But I disliked Darren more than either woman. He was a loser and a user.
"Joey, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?"
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lamont-hard
11 years ago
I disagree, that is part of being a mother to have your daughter's best interest first. She was feeling down and needed to talk, not have her mom ease dropping on her and using it for her own selfish reasons. As far as Darren was he used both women for sex and got away with it because her mom came between them and allowed herself to be put in the situation of a man whom she clearly knew what he wanted at some point.
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bunnywithanaxe
10 years ago
I kind of got the daughter-- I have a very domineering mother.
But May didn't strike me as a very domineering person-- she struck me as a person who had been unselfish for a very long time, and just snapped and decided to do something that made her happy, screw the consequences. By definition that is selfish, and has consequences (not the least of which is your daughter popping you in the face and hating you for life), but I think he being selfish was kind of the point-- she decided to go for what she wanted for once-- to hell with the consequences.
Yes, a mother should put her daughter first, but she wasn't' behaving like a mother, she was behaving like a passionate woman with unique desires of her own. I think the film is a challenge to the idea that only evil, depraved women act selfishly, and in a purely storytelling sense, some of us might find the idea of pursuing our own desires without worrying about what others think kind of liberating. That does not mean we'd mimic her specific choices, but the identifying desires part? Counting the cost? Going for them if you are willing to face the music? Good ideas to ponder.
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Sugarminx
10 years ago
I happened to catch this film again on the weekend - gosh it's good, if somewhat depressing and uncomfortable to watch.
I see the film in a similar way to you hodie.
This is a film about unlikeable people. They are all hiddeously self-involved and seem to lack any compassion or empathy for the people around them. Particularly distressing when you consider that most of the characters are members of the same family!
I'm astonished that people seem to be willing to give the daughter a 'pass' on her behaviour. Darren was her man? Ridiculous! He was his wife's man as you pointed out. I'm at a loss to understand what he saw in her (save sex perhaps), she was a bitter, unpleasant, self-obsessed drunk. Really attractive!
For a woman who liked to whine endlessly about how she was 'neglected' as a child, she certainly came across as a spoiled brat who expected the world to dance to her tune.
The daughter was dispicable in my view, and the least likable of all the characters. To set her mother up with a man she knew her mother didn't like or want? To lock her own mother out of the house, so that she has to beg to be let in? What kind of human being does that, never mind daughter.
I'm not necessarily excusing May completely, it was unwise of her to carry on with someone that her daughter was seeing, but I understand she was acting out of desperation and loneliness. Heartbreaking to hear her admit that she thought the only person who would ever touch her again (and not in a good way) would be the undertaker.
You're quite right about Darren being a loser and a user, but there is one thing that I liked about him. And that is that he didn't dismiss someone like May, out of hand. He didn't say "oh she's an old women, not worth my time". He did see her as a person and actually talked to her - long before it became apparent that he could get anything out of her.
Everything I've ever told you has been a lie. Including that - George Spiggott
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