MovieChat Forums > Cremaster 3 (2003) Discussion > No Cremaster on DVD = Pathetic

No Cremaster on DVD = Pathetic

posted 19 years ago by neft
18 replies | jump to latest

This is an example of money taking control of art. I stubled upon this cycle today and have been reading about the reasoning behind not releasing this rather interesting film series, and it has made me very angry. Art before film? Film IS art, and the art collectors who are blocking this from DVD release are nothing but art supressors, hording these movies for themselves, feeding off the rarity, afraid their "collection" would decrease in value if they were released. This is stupid and needs to be overridden by the public.

Doblerone

[–] JeffreyAlbertson 18 years ago

I completely agree
I am outraged at this
Everyone who wants to see this should be able to

[–] howisya 18 years ago

well said, neft.

[–] haapaq 18 years ago

Is he even going to release Drawing Restraint 9?

Screw them if they're going to be like that.

bit torrent / www.piratebay.org

[–] altosax 18 years ago

While I agree, I'd love to have a set of Cremaster DVDs, I can see some logic in that.

There's certainly a difference between Speilberg's "art" and Barney's "art." They define themselves differently, by a fairly different set of values. I know when I was first introduced to Barney I saw his exhibit at the Guggenheim (by accident really.) The films were displayed and there were showings in the theatre, but the good majority of the exhibit was centered around the different individual pieces that were used in the films. It seemed liked as much importance was placed on the art within the films as the art of the films themselves.

I can understand how people who hadn't stumbled upon an experience like that might not share the same views.

[–] tweettweettweet 18 years ago

to me it seems like the whole thing is less about art and more about commerce. I think Barney is simply being a shrewd businessman, just as Spielberg is. Spielberg's films are made to be marketed to a very wide demographic--essentially anyone with $10 to spend at the movies on a Saturday. and the business model works marvelously. His movies always top box offices for weeks. Meanwhile, Barney knows that there is a limited audience for the kind of movies he makes, and as a result markets his films to a very small, specialized group of people. Why spend money on a poorly attended wide release when you can mingle with the art collector crowd and get them to pay thousands of dollars per copy? It makes pretty good sense to me. My only criticism of this practice is that it creates a distance between Barney and Spielberg that I think is (and this is my personal opinion) unnecessary and ultimately untrue. It is hard for me to accept that a 5 part cycle about gonads is art but dinosaurs eating people is pop. It's just too bad. I'd like to see the Cremaster cycle, but unfortunately i have to start saving up for Indiana Jones 4.

[–] howisya 18 years ago

also well said! anyway with that attitude matthew barney's basically inviting the bootlegging of his work. if he ever wants to change that i suggest he actually publicly releases the cycle on dvd, until then i say it's open season.

[–] oracio_r 18 years ago

I'm gonna limit myself to saying only the following: The art collectors hoarding their copies didn't merely offer him money for the films... they were the backers. No studio was involved in the production of these multimillion dollar films. Did you ever wonder how a film of this nature (and let's not be naive, film is first and foremost a business because it is the most expensive of all the arts) ever got the financial backing it required? So... the logic doesn't rest on elitism, but on a person who commisioned the work wanting to still be able to hold on to his "part" of the production. It's the same thing with studios: the majority of them legally own the films of many great directors not the directors themselves. So yeah...

Also, the films themselves are completely tied in with the various other pieces of art (of varied mediums) in the series, so it makes sense for him to rationalize: This isn't a movie. No disrespect, but first and foremost this is part of an exhibition, meant to be displayed, not owned. This gets tricky after a while, because certainly not one person owns the Mona Lisa, but it IS possible for me to go to the gift shop and get my very own copy. Here lies the problem... I guess this is where your criticisms should be headed.

PS: I understand your pleas, though. Don't get me wrong.

[–] omegajedi 18 years ago

I have Blockbuster online and they just sent me Cremaster 3 yesterday. Although, I think it may be labled wrong because it is "Cremaster 3 The Order". The cover looks like Cremaster 3 cover, but its only 30 minutes or so long. The guy climbs the levels in the Gugenhiem and kills the cheeta woman. Is this Cremaster 3? If not, what part is it?

[–] silviawilliams2003 18 years ago

That is only a 30 minute clip from "Cremaster 3". The entire clip is shot mostly at the Chrysler Building.

[–] Hanin 18 years ago

There is one important issue. I believe that the people who currently own laserdisc or dvd copies of the movies are also the people who financed them in the first place. If they hadn't bought them in advance, there would be no movies.

I also believe that when Barney sold them these advance copies, he probably guaranteed them that they would be unique. The only of their kind. Never to be re-printed.

And the art collectors who financed Cremaster 3 probably financed Drawing Restraint 9. And will finance any other future projects.

Does it suck to not own a copy of the Cycle?

Yes.

Did Barney create the problem where a handful art collector have the power to nix the DVD release himself?

Also yes.

[–] oedekerk 18 years ago

There are DVDs of the Cremaster Cycle, but they are auctioned at like 300,000 dollars or something. They look amazing though.

[–] Alex___ 18 years ago

Pathetic? If the artist who made it wants to limit the distribution of his work, I don't see how "the public" has any right to override that. The films are touring and at one time or another you'll probably get the opportunity to see them. Why is it so important for you to own a copy of the film?

[–] d3rp 18 years ago

you can still download cremaster and other barney's works from p2p programs like emule, it is poor quality, but better than nothing.

btw. i have the question. on official site there are info about "Interactive multi-angle navigation version (120 min.)" on The Order DVD. could someone describe what is it and how does is work?

[–] dogout43 18 years ago

It just goes through the film in its real time and you can look at the different levels even if he is not on them. It's only 120 minutes if you watch each level in its entirety.

Are you the Tenia?

[–] thebedtimestory 14 years ago

Matthew Barney considers these films to be moving sculptures, and believes they are best viewed in a museum. There are, at times, showings of all five films at either art house cinemas or museums, and anyone is eligible to attend. I believe he is right in making this decision, as watching these films on a 20 inch TV was never his intention. It has to look a certain way to feel right for him. This can only be assured in a controlled environment like a museum or a cinema. It took him eight years to release these films and they are very important to him personally.

The point others have made about the limited DVD copies that were released being a return on the backers initial investment is also a valid one.

Finally, if you can get past the drop in quality, you can always torrent the films. I would like to see a DVD release as much as the next person, but ultimately that is not for us to decide.

[–] Necrometer 14 years ago

This thread sort of blew my mind. I took it for granted that any art appreciator would see this as a move away from the commercialization of art, but I guess I was wrong. "I can't download The Cremaster Cycle on iTunes to watch on the train, there's no justice in this world!"

HAIL TO THE CHIMP! http://i35.tinypic.com/1zoxa4m.gif