MovieChat Forums > The Smashing Machine Discussion > Some questions on the docu...

Some questions on the docu...


I got confused with the text at the end of the docu as to who got married in 2000 and stopped fighting soon afterwards...was it the younger wrestler, or the older one who won the major fight at the end of the docu?
What happened to both guys later on? I mean personally and professionally.
Lastly, how on earth could the guy who won the major title at the end of the film get away with kneeing an opponent in the head repeatedly? That was truly a demonstration of how idiotic the sport is. A soccer play lost his life after a head clash in a soccer game...and these guys knee eachother in the head? As Lleyton Hewitt would say "C'MON!!".

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anyone?

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Mark Coleman "The Old Guy" recently retired after a loss to Fedor Emelianenko, who is considered by many to be the greatest fighter in the world. Certainly the greatest heavyweight...maybe ever.

Mark Kerr "The Young Guy" had another loss in 2001 soon after his loss to Igor Vovchanchyn. He attempted a comeback in 2004 but the fight was stopped after :40 seconds due to strikes (He lost). The in November of this year (2006) he attempted another comeback that resulted in a loss this one taking 2:40.

Mark Kerr was the one who got married. He married the same girl that was in the film. Mark Coleman was married in the documentary.

As far as the sport being idiotic...that is just ridiculous. This is the fasting growing sport in the world. As brutal as it may seem it is actually a fairly safe sport relative to boxing, football and even soccer I guess since you say someone was killed. Nobody has ever died in a sanctioned mixed martial arts fight. There have been very few if any major injuries. The people that are in that ring choose to be there on their own accord. You must train hard and dedicate your life to the sport to even be considered to enter a ring in a professional MMA fight.

Knees to the head is all relative. Of course it sounds like a horrible idea to some but there are days while at work where I would much rather just have some knees to the head than have to deal with clients!!! HA!!!

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Thanks. Can you clarify what you mean by "strikes" in your comment: "but the fight was stopped after :40 seconds due to strikes (He lost). "?
Re the sport being idiotic-I just mean with reference to continuous knees to the head, which is unprotected. A knee to the head is more damaging than a fist, I think, and in amatuer boxing they wear head-gear.
The idea of inter-sport fighting is intriguing. I actually wondered how a wrestler could compete, but seeing some fights the fights quickly degenerate into wrestling contests. Have heard of a feared martial art called muuy thai [sp?] which has a reputation as being the most brutally effective of the martial arts. Haven't seen that in the docu.
Back to the sport being idiotic and your comment that people choose to be there-that isn't a defence, I don't think. If someone gets seriously hurt it is the public hospital service that probably has to treat these people and tax-payers, perhaps, who have to pay for it. But maybe the US has worse health care than the rest of the world so if injured fighters don't have the money they don't get treated. In short, if two people agree to duel with guns at dawn, I don't think they should be allowed to just because they choose to be there. Sports need to be safe for participants, within reason.

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Thai boxers have been "keeing" each other in the head for decades.

Some sports are dangerous but that is what makes them more challenging. "People play golf. They play baseball. No one plays boxing."

And the reason more boxers, kickboxers and MMA fighters don't get killed is because they know how to protect themselves. They know how to block knees to the head-- or fists to the temple (which will kill you just as fast.)

They don't just throw any untrained schmoe out there.



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There was only one guy that died during a mixed martial arts fight. Douglas Degde was fatally injured from strikes to the head he died 6 days later. but the doctors checked him before the fight and he was unsafe with sum head injury before.

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Yeah not only was he not cleared to fight beforehand but the event itself was also unsanctioned. The majority of people accept that this death doesn't really amount to anything beyond an ameteur deal.

UFC...As Real As It Gets

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1) Can you clarify what you mean by "strikes" in your comment:

Strikes = Punches, Knees, Elbows, Kicks. It means that he did not tap out, nor was he knocked out but the contest was stopped because the fighter took too many unanswered "strikes". I hope that makes sense.

2) I actually wondered how a wrestler could compete:

Actually grasshopper, wrestlers do very well in MMA. In order to compete one needs a complete game. For example, you mentioned that you heard that Muay Thai is a feared martial art. And it is. Many fighters are ex-Muay Thai fighters and/or have some training in Muay Thai. I would guess that every single fighter that fights in the UFC (nowadays) has had some MT training.

HOWEVER...it would be by sheer luck that a fighter that only knew Muay Thai would be effective inside the octagon...because if he fought a wrestler for example and that wrestler took the MT fighter to the ground...then the Wrestler has the clear advantage. When you train for MMA (mixed martial arts) you typically need to learn the following to some degree: Boxing, Jiu-Jitsu, Muay Thai, Wrestling. Those 4 techniques are fairly all encompassing of what you can expect to see in a MMA fight. Karate, Judo, Kung-Fu...those things are good for learning discipline and obviously good for day-to-day self defense. But the afore mentioned techniques are really the bread and butter of MMA.

3) Your comment that "people choose to be there", isn't a good defense.

Well...it is not so much a defense as much as it is meant to explain that the people in that octagon, ring, cage...etc., are really trained and know what they are doing. You not only learn how to fight offensively but defensively as well.

Is it a brutal sport? Yes. Why do you think it has become so popular? But is it the most brutal sport? I would say that it is the most brutal "seeming" sport. If you have not played sports then it would be tough to explain. I will try...I used to play football in high school and some college. I have also been in several fights. I took judo really young and I have taken some boxing and took some wrestling. But the fights I am referring to are street fights, bar fights, stupid crap like that. Well I am here to tell you that I have never been in a fight that resulting in anything broken, chipped, sprained or anything. I have never had my bell rung like I did in football. And in football it happened weekly if not daily.

I have also broken my nose playing basketball. Broke my ankle playing baseball. Chipped my kneecap (yeah I said it) CHIPPED MY KNEECAP playing rugby.

Believe me...all sports have a brutal aspect to them if you look at injuries.

Look...I'm getting writers cramp just tying this...nobody has ever gotten carpal tunnel from a fight...

Point is...everything could be banned with the right argument. We are living in a time where that could potentially be a reality. It's just a sport...people like it...it's fun...it's safer than you think.



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Hi. Accidentally rediscovered this thread after going through some of the later pages in my post history. Before I respond to you, I'll just respond to an earlier comment that still defends the sport on the basis that it is voluntary or the fighters know how to protect themselves:

My argument isn't that I want the sport to be harmless, merely that it shouldn't be lethal-do you really want a Mad Max 3: Beyond Thunderdome type sport? That's lethal. Hence my suggestion that fighters use headgear. As for fighters being able to protect themselves, I was more referring to moments in a fight when the boxer is helpless and is copping knees to the head and not being able to defend themselves. I've seen numerous incidents like these in the docu, so I don't accept the view that fighters know how to defend themselves, because I've seen them get into situations where they can't defend themselves. Headgear and referees should protect them at these times.

KW-you ever see footage of Muhammed Ali in a fight with a wrestler? The wresteler impersonates a spider in that, keeping on all fours to fight Ali. He knows that if he stood up, Ali would pummel him. That was my earlier point, I suppose-didn't see how wrestlers could compete. I suppose my point is that if a Tae Kwo Do expert or something just rushed a wrestler and did fast kicks at him, he wouldn't stand much of a chance...but the flip side is that once that storm passes, and tiredness sets in, the wrestler would have the advantage. Can't really see how a good kickboxer etc would let the fight last long enough for that to happen.

Re Ali-a scene in a Rocky movie draws on this fight-when Rocky takes on Hulk Hogan. That fictional fight looked more entertaining than the real one!

The great Australian kick boxer Stan "The Man" Longinides once did a kick to the leg of an opponent and broke the guy's leg. That's brutal-as brutal as his spin elbows to the head, but not as worrying as knees to the head of a guy who can't protect himself. It's the latter that I am raising objections to.

Cheers.

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Nowadays when a fighter is in a position where he is seen to be not intelligently defending the ref steps in and stops the fight so they don't take unnecessary punishment..

The Mohammed Ali vs a Wrestler (Inoki) fight had ridiculous rules such as the wrestler wasn't allowed to use his arms/hands to take down Ali which basically negated his whole wrestling style as he was forced to try and use his legs for scissor take downs which meant the fight went to a long drawn out decision draw.

The Rocky Vs Hulk Hogan fight was based on a match in the seventies between André the Giant and a boxer named Chuck Wepner who became famous for going to the distance with Ali in a match he was expected to get knocked out early in(Stallone said that fight was in the inspiration for the original Rocky film).

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Mark Coleman is actually now under contract to the UFC. He was scheduled to face Brock Lesnar at UFC 87, which takes place on August 9 in Minneapolis, Minnesota. He hurt his knee in training for bout though and was forced to withdraw.

Mark Kerr is still fighting as well. He loses more than he wins. He's 2-7 in his last nine fights.

His fight record can be viewed at the link below...

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/mark-kerr-71

Mark Coleman's fight record is can be viewed at the link below...

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Mark-Coleman-136

Coleman's record is somewhat deceptive as even though he is 3-4 in his last seven fights those four losses were to truly elite level competition.


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I saw this documentary a few weeks ago on the SBS network in Australia.

This is not sport, its a tool used by sad, twisted people to make heaps of money at the expense of wannabe psychopaths.

If I was to perform 10 seconds in public what these thugs do in the ring, I would be jailed for 6 months plus.

But then again, this "sport" would appeal to those ineffectual individuals who wouldn't last 5 seconds in a ring with a legless drawf in a straightjacket. Like those who suffer from the "small d!ck - big car or big dog" syndrome.

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I realize your posts here are old, but seriously:

People like you are the reason MMA gets a bad rep.

You don't know ANYTHING about fighting. Pro boxing is one of the most dangerous sports in the world and almost no one complains about it. Knees to the head, while brutal, isn't nearly as bad as stomping and soccer kicking - and even those aren't that bad

Now then, for your information: WRESTLING AND JIU JITSU were the two styles that dominated ALL OTHER styles of martial arts in the early days.

Meaning, take a kickboxer and a wrestler and put them in the ring and USUALLY the wrestler will win.

As for your take on TKD - TKD is a useless tap sport that uses minimal contact. Muay Thai > TKD. And even Muay Thai on its own hasn't done well in MMA - it isn't the end all to martial arts.

MMA has proven that a well rounded style of boxing, Muay Thai/kickboxing/sanda, BJJ and wrestling is by far the best combination. Any style that covers striking, clinch, takedowns and submissions is game, so long as it involves a lot of full contact. You realize how small the range of motion is from the knees to the head, right? It's not as bad as you're saying.

Stop raising objections, you don't know anything about fighting, you've clearly never trained, just stop. You look foolish. Sorry I have to be a jerk about it, but that's all there is to it.

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Both Mark Kerr and Mark Coleman are still fighting.

Kerr has a fight tonight (29 August, 2009) in fact. He's taking on an up and coming fighter named Muhammed "King Mo" Lawal.

Coleman's actually back fighting in the UFC. He's fought twice already this year and is fighting Tito Ortiz at UFC 106 in November

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So, Mohammed Lawal destroyed Mark Kerr last night. He took him down straight away and then pounded him out. The bout time was twenty-five seconds. Kerr was out when it was stopped and was down for a long time afterwards.

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looked more like Kerr's arm got hurt on the takedown

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Mark Coleman (the older wrestler), though he hadn't fought in over three years since losing to Randy Couture at UFC 109 in February 2010, officially announced his retirement on March 4, 2013.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/UFC-Hall-of-Famer-Mark-The-Hammer-Coleman-Announces-Retirement-at-Age-48-50689

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