MovieChat Forums > Young Black Stallion (2003) Discussion > Father of the Black

Father of the Black

posted 19 years ago by mellohorse
14 replies | jump to latest

well, if there is one thing that peeves me off in some movies, its when they take a different breed of horse and not the actual breed. In The Young Black Stallion, its not even an arab who plays the daddy! Its a friesian! Not only that, but I thought in the books the father, aka Ziyadah, was a chestnut and an actual real horse?!? In the movie, its a horse who comes from this 'galaxy' it looks like to come breed with the "finest mares" and then goes back to where he comes from. I read the book many years ago which was called something like "The Ghost of the Black Stallion", I forgot its title, but it had the Blacks father in the book! The movie was awful enough, but they couldnt find at least an actual black arab? instead they took a friesian? According to the movie, the black is a mix of a fresian and arab...whoever decided to do this needs to be shot!

[–] SparrowSwann99 19 years ago

the Black's Father HAD to a black arab! He didn't friesian look a bit like a friesian and I do know what a friesian looks like.I have Big book of horses breeds.

[–] mellohorse 19 years ago

Im sorry to say, but in the movie, the father was indeed a friesian...the horse is too tall for an arab and its face doesnt have the slight dish that many arabs have...besides, arabs dont have feathered feet like the one in the movie.

[–] SparrowSwann99 19 years ago

well,i don't care if the Black's Father was a friesian or not. He and the other horses were beautful.

[–] starlion3 19 years ago

first off, the black horse probably was a Friesian, BUT remember that in the books (if you've read them) that the Black wasn't pure arabian, now I don't know if he was Friseian or not.. but probably something bigger than arabian..

and the series contradicts itself... first we are led to believe that the Black's father was Ziydah, the chestnut stallion in the book. then in YBS the novel, they say he wasn't fathered by Ziyadah, for he doesn't resemble Shetan in color or substance.nor his dam Jinah Al-Tayr(I don't think there was a description of her in the books).but a great Black Stallion of the night sky (hence the sort of prequel).one of Ishak's oldest herders turned out Jinah in the fields. Ben Ishak told him if Jinah's colt was black, he would be full of fire and have the speed of desert storms...though it also states that Ziyadah was turned out in the same field. but the old herder knew the colt wasn't Ziyadah's, though he didn't straight out say Shetan was the Midnigh't sky's colt.

I don't remember if Ishak himself thought Ziyadah was the colt's sire or not.. though..

also I'm not sure if Walter intended Ziyadah to be Shetan's sire or not. since Steven took over writing the book when he died.. he might have changed it himself.

Edit: the book with Ziyadah is black stallion mystery

[–] chatnoir_1013 17 years ago

The Young Black Stallion book clears most of this this up.

Ziyadah and Jinah (was that her name? I don't remember) were turned out into the same field. When Jinah foaled Shetan, he had some hard thinking to do because not only is it genetically, err, difficult for a chestnut (Ziyadah) and a dark bay (Jinah) to make a black foal, but Ishak was fully expecting a chestnut because supposedly Ziyadah stamped all his foals with his coat color. Ishak's mystical explanation was that Jinah had mated with the black stallion of the night sky. So Ziyadah was Shetan's father on paper, but there were doubts.

And as you stated, it's not certain whether Walter intended this, or if it was Steven's idea.

[–] sundae_mourning 17 years ago

When Jinah foaled Shetan, he had some hard thinking to do because not only is it genetically, err, difficult for a chestnut (Ziyadah) and a dark bay (Jinah) to make a black foal

actually, it's not difficult at all. chestnut is a recessive gene in horses and in order for a horse to be bay, he *must* carry the gene for black. (i can explain this is more detail if you like, but that's the gist of it.) black is a dominant gene, so if the bay mare passed on the black gene, the foal would have to be black since it would overshadow the recessive chestnut gene.

i haven't read that book, so i'm not sure what explanation is given there, but it is actually not that difficult for a bay and a chestnut to produce a black.

[–] BlackWolfRising 17 years ago

"first off, the black horse probably was a Friesian, BUT remember that in the books (if you've read them) that the Black wasn't pure arabian, now I don't know if he was Friseian or not.. but probably something bigger than arabian..."

Absolutely right. When the first book introduces The Black, it read "...too big to be pure Arabian." Cass Olé was a miscast.

TRUST THE TOAD!!

[–] brego_shadowfax 19 years ago

the father was indeed a Friesian, the reason he wasn't a black arab horse was probebly because they went for looks. I'm not saying arab's aren't pretty horses, but everyone will probebly agree that a black friesian stallion looks, both masculin, and strong, which is what most people will imagine when they think of a magnificent horse (he does, after all, come down from the stars). Arab horses tend to look more feminine as well, being smaller and quite smooth in features, while a friesian is...well, bulky (hence they aren't the best for ridding, very choppy) all in all, the father is a friesian

[–] sars_horses89 19 years ago

I agree. along with the horse changing gender all the time (supposedly a stallion) it spoiled the movie.

[–] MartyBaconJr 18 years ago

Some of what has been said about looks is true but for the most part the posters have been talking about modern Egyptian and to a lesser extent Russian blood lines. Old Egyptian, Polish, Crabbet and American blood line are much more of what was shown in the movie. We had a stud from McCoy-Bask breeding that was a substantial tank. We also had a McCoy Bred gelding who was tall for an Arab with a rather straight face, ie no jibbah. Both were pure bred I have 25+ generation charts on both. Having a pure-bred or the popular conception of a Pure-bred are not neccessarily the same thing.
Marty
An Arabian owner and breeder

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] pookybrain 18 years ago

they do a similar thing in "running free" the supposly thoroughbred stallion and his thoroughbred mares were nothing but a bunch of arabs, crosses and the the head thoroughbred stallion "caesar" was a friesan. they seem to use friesans for about anything..

"hey howdy hey! thats me on a yoyo!"

[–] KCrandell1077 17 years ago

Where did you see the friesian? The only horse I remember seeing in the beginning was his mother.

"Why do we fall? So we can pick ourselves up" -Mr. Wayne and Alfred "Batman Begins"

[–] mamasdr 16 years ago

Ok,
The WF books are complete FICTION!
There is no certain sire in the "Black Stallion" series. They toss around a few suggestions but none ever play out. The chestnut stallion that is brought up in "Ghost" is then mentioned, in the SAME BOOK to be a lie.

Also. The American Jockey Club would NEVER admit a horse of unknown breeding, that is NOT a Thoroughbred.. from registered Thoroughbred STOCK to be allowed into the JC to race. Never mind breed! And then allow his progeny to race/breed.It would not happen. The American JC does not allow horses that are to be raced/bred to be conceived via AI (Artificial Insemination) Not having a registered dam or sire will completely drop the horse from the standards. Although horses have been allowed back into the books so that an exceptional son or daughter can then race. As is the case of Black Golds dam U See It.
I cant imagine the Arabian Horse Association(at least the US one) allowing it either.

In the books the "Black" is described to be bigger, taller and heavier than the "average" Arabian. Then his son "Satan" to be even coarser and taller than his sire. While the Egyptian line of Arabians is, on average 16H tall. They are also a lighter boned and muscled compared to the Crabbet/Kellog line.
While there are variations within each breed and line they mostly hold true within the Arabian breed due to VERY stringent breeding rules among the professional.. ie decent breeders.

Cas Ole was chosen to play the main part of the Black in the movies because he was already trained to perform and was people orientated. He was NOT the only horse in that movie. And the horse that played the Black in the race scenes was not only a mare, but was most certainly NOT an Arabian.