Are 'Coolers' real?
did casinos ever really have employees like that or is it a screenplay invention?
share[deleted]
MovieChat Forums > The Cooler (2004) Discussion > Are 'Coolers' real?
No.
And a real casino is never worried about players winning money like they are in this movie. They know the odds are in the house's favor and so as long as everyone keeps gambling the casino will end up with the money in the end. Coolers aren't necessary when the math is so in your favor.
Great great movie, nonetheless.
Actually, casinos do care a lot when people start winning money. That's why they ply you with drinks, try to distract you, and do all those tricks that Larry talked about at one point in the movie. Drunk people, for example, are even more likely to try to win back their losses after they go down.
Sure the odds are naturally in the casino's favor, but they make even more money if you start laying down stupid bets.
Nope. The drinks are so you will keep gambling.
There are no "smart" bets when there is no way you will win long term.
The more you gamble, the more they will win.
Tell your story to any pro gambler who gets barred from casinos for winning too much. Some people don't need to cheat and can over come the odds with talent. Casinos can't see the forest through the trees and they have childish fits when people are winning too much.
[deleted]
Yes, some casino's have shareholders, obviously...
shareWinners give good publicity and they make other people want to gamble in the same place.
When someone is winning, as you see in the movie too, people gather around, and they want to play too. Most of those people will not win, and most of the ones that do win some, will continue playing, and loose it again, and more. If the casinos stopped the people who were winning, other people would also stop, they would not have fun anymore, and they would leave.
What casinos will do, is give winners free suites and stuff, so they'll stay and gamble more there, and of course loose money to the casino.
If people win, and are treated well, they will also come back to the same place again, and of course they will loose more often than they'll win.
Of course it's a different matter with card counters, and people who otherwise try to circumvent the system. They don't want those, but that's a different matter, since these are not relying on luck or streaks and are not the average guests.
But you never know if some might have done it. Some scumbag mafia run casinos may not have been smart enough to do things the right way.
I don't know if casinos ever did that, but I thought the movie made it clear that it was just another of Shelly's adherence to the old mob ways. Shelly believed in superstition just as much as he believed in applying muscle when needed.
I think at one point Larry made it clear that getting rid of Bernie would be the first thing he would do if he got in charge -- he didn't buy "coolers" for one second.
I think at one point Larry made it clear that getting rid of Bernie would be the first thing he would do if he got in charge -- he didn't buy "coolers" for one second.
I was thinking about that just the other day, after watching the scene on the roof with Shelly and Bernie. Shelly is hell-bent on getting his cooler back, no matter what. But his days of running things are clearly numbered. Bernie could have waited him out. Once Shelly was gone, Bernie would be free. Yes, he'd have to pay back whatever he still owed the casino, but you can bet that Larry would have agreed to his offer to send a portion of his paycheck every month until the debt was gone. Bernie doesn't realize that he's actually in a stronger position than he thinks.
Wouldn't have been much of a movie, though. This was better - playing craps for his freedom - great scene!
Flat, drab passion meanders across the screen!
share
I almost get the feeling that this is like The Natural, Samson & Delilah, or a comic book movie, where someone has great power and then loses it, regains it, etc. Usually I hate that stuff, but I enjoyed this movie.
I suppose coolers are real, but they're probably credited with 60% effectiveness, not 100%.
Keep fücking that chicken.
[deleted]
Okay, I'll go back to 2009 and think about it.
How does "completely misuse" differ from "misuse"? Are you sure you're using the word completely correctly?
[deleted]
If they do or ever did, I doubt that it is literal "bringing bad luck". More like distractions and thinly veiled threats to scare them off.
www.risingabovetheradar.blogspot.com
www.madmanoz.blogspot.com
[deleted]
Sometimes I feel like a cooler!! When I play craps, and I got money on every number and then...7 out!!! And yes getting drunk does make you play wildly!!
sharei found the answer to your question. the cooler is the name of a scam done at casino tables. so yes, they're real, but not like in this movie. its a complete misuse and misdefinition of the term. the link has more information. scroll down until you see 'the cooler.'
http://www.richardmarcusbooks.com/casinoScamOfTheMonth.php
fascinating.
shareThey probably had ppl who would go around constantly winning or bragging about winning so people would think it's possible. Not really a cooler more of a plant but still same type of thing.
share@Thatguy,
This thread spun off somewhere else, but to answer your question: Yes - coolers were real. Some of us older punters remember them - They are also mentioned in a couple of books I've read about the industry. They stopped being seen/used in major casinos by the 1970s, for reasons mentioned above (ie they were deemed not to work and were seen as payroll dead-weight) but some of the off-strip and low(er) roller joints continued to use them for years after. I doubt if there are any left now but they're such a wonderful anachronism...wouldnt it be great if there were?
Very old thread, but if coolers ever were employed in by casinos, it was a complete waste of money. This movie is a fantasy in every sense.
shareI believe "Old Vegas", or pre 1980s Vegas did use coolers, based on irrational superstitions. Old Vegas was heavily mob-influenced as well. I believe this film was meant to take place in the late 1970s or early 1980s. The idea of a cooler is absurd, but the kind of folks who ran Vegas in those days weren't exactly rational people.
Contrary to what someone posted above, Casinos do have "coolers". They are not there because they bring constant bad luck, they are used when a player is murdering the house at a game like Black Jack. The Casino will send in two or three players who will play crazy, like hitting a 16 when a dealer is showing a 6. The idea is to switch up the cards, and break up the hot streak. I know it may be somewhat of an "urban myth", but I've know some ex-Vegas dealers who swear its true.
So funny I was going to respond to this and read what chas437 said. So so many times playing blackjack and winning a lot, some jackass shows up hitting on 15 etc and drawing the dealers burn card my win streak just goes poof.
shareYep, It usually happens at the high stakes tables when you get red hot, and the dealer is busting almost every hand. The Casinos don't want you walking out with 10,000$+. When you suspect a cooler, cash out!
shareSorry, but that's hogwash too. A bad player at a blackjack table, in the long run, hurts only himself. There's not one serious player in the world who would leave a table just because another player was making the wrong moves. Although I will admit that casino officials may not believe this. I've had countless dealers, floor-men, supervisors give me incorrect information and swear by it.
shareWell, like I said, its an urban myth, and you can believe it or not. I've had three retired career Vegas Black Jack dealers tell me that the casino will attempt an intervention at a high stakes table, when a player is murdering in the house. This "intervention" could be constantly swapping out dealers or cards, or sometimes, adding players to the table to switch up the cards. The people they add are "casino employees". So, the 3 former dealers could have been full of it, but they independently told the same story. The Casino will do all kinds of things to keep you from walking out the door with a large chunk of their money. To tell you the truth, I don't know what to believe when it comes to casinos.
shareI believe you. I'm not trying to be a jackass. It's just that this is one (of a very few) subjects I actually know a lot about. If a blackjack player is thought to be a card-counter, or some other type of advantage player, then the casino will take steps to thwart him. Either by shuffling the decks more frequently, to lessen the counter's information, limiting his bet size so that he can't take advantage of his information, or just refusing to let him play, but that last one can only be done in a privately owned casino. However, if the player is just some schlub who's having a streak of good luck (positive variance) then the casino will, or at least should, take every step to ensure that he STAYS there and keeps playing so that the house advantage will eventually take over.
Like I said, I've heard so much misinformation about blackjack that I could probably write a book about it. But the world doesn't need another blackjack book.
No worries. No doubt there's all kinds of rumours and speculation out there, as well as a wide variety of casino situations. So, I really don't know what to believe. But I don't doubt casinos do some shady things to stack things in their favor.
The one thing I've learned about Black Jack, that's a sure winner, if you get up a few hundered or thousand dollars, tip the dealer and cash out.
Lester and Chas,
Interesting discussion here, although I realize this is months old. I can believe coolers used to be used, maybe 30 or 50 years ago, but I doubt anyone would be illogical enough to use one now. As others have said, casinos know that if they keep players playing, they will eventually win.
Lester,
I didn't know that public casinos couldn't ban suspected card counters. From what I know, card counting is not illegal, but casinos have the right to refuse service to anyone. Are most of the major Vegas casinos private?
Chas,
Interesting about casinos doing that. It seems to me that it should not be legal. I don't see how sending in employed players to play badly could be considered fair. I guess it might have been done under the table. I guess the retired dealers would have no say in such affairs, but if they blew the whistle that would be interesting.
Hey. Just saw this reply now. About players playing badly, it makes absolutely no difference to a card-counter how other people play their own hands. The cards are randomly shuffled and have no "pattern" to them so sometimes if the person next to you plays their hand poorly, it will hurt you and sometimes it will help you. In the end it makes no difference.
As for casinos being able to ban people, I play mostly in Atlantic City and I suppose it's just the law there that someone can't be kicked out for counting. Cheating; yes, counting; no.
And since I brought up the random shuffle thing, I think it's a pretty interesting fact that it's a near certainty that no two decks of cards have EVER been in the same order as each other after a fair shuffle. I know that has nothing to do with anything but it's pretty cool to think about.
yes, and his name is jack daniels.
His name...was Julio Iglesias!