was it luck?


The famous scene where Mcnamara says that "it was luck" that the U.S. avoided world war III over the cuban missile crisis. I don't agree, it was some very wise and cool headed diplomacy by Kennedy that averted a nuclear crisis. Think what would have happened if a hot headed right wing nut would have been power? It could have been a very different outcome.

--
"Surrender Dorothy!"

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Isn't what you said actually "luck"?

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Well, by that logic you could argue all outcomes are luck. What Mcnamara was implying was that Kennedy was just lucky, rather than the fact that he made an excellent dimplomatic move to allow the Soviets to save face.

--
"Surrender Dorothy!"

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There was "wise and cool headed diplomacy" in 1914.

The coin landed with the other face up.

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I guess it wasn't wise enough? You CAN avert war though if you are careful, it's just more often than not far easier to play with big toys and blow things up like the primitive primates that we are.

--
"Surrender Dorothy!"

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The 'luck' part comes in because he did not know for sure how the USSR would react. If they acted a different way it would have caused WWIII and you JFK did not know what would happen, he took a risk and it paid off.

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and that's where the part about empathizing with your enemy comes into play. obviously, some skill was involved, a very small amoutn though. they had to know their enemy, know what would peacefully disarm them, and know what would go after war and then act the other way.

there was so much luck because the ussr it seemed kind of had world war III in the back of their minds. but, in the end, as mcnamara said, it was rationale men that prevented it.


that's what i love about this film. mcnamara can really see people. he knows people. you ask a hundred people if kruschev and castro were rationale, a lot of them would say no but not mcnamara. and then his views on the nuclear weapon and civilian killings. he doesn't say it's bad just because killings bad, he instead says that it's not usually proportional to the objectives. great stuff that isn't necessarilyl left-winged, but almost like safe-winged. peaceful-winged. he understands the neccestties of war but still sees different avenues to take in war.

it's judgement that defeats us

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i disagree, it seems mcnamara is extraordinarily bad at reading people, he is an egghead, he is all about statistics and probabilities, if he knew people he would have recongnized early on that no amount of bombing short of nukes would have stopped the Viet Cong.

--
"Surrender Dorothy!"

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McNamara had nothing to do with the initiation of the Vietnam war, the conflict was sparked by an event which didn't even happen in the first place, it was based on a lie.

Vietnam goes deeper than most anyone knows, just like the "war on terror" of today, there isn't a tangible enemy. First and foremost what matters is profitability, all wars are based on profit and you're a fool to dismiss this fact.

Kennedy was killed in the name of profit and power, the twin towers were brought down in the name of profit and power. Blaming McNamara for Vietnam is just one of many pitfalls which keeps the public blind, it detracts you from what truly matters.

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Ultimately though it is quite unclear as to who engaged in more dangerous brinkmanship before and during the crisis, Krushtchev or Kennedy; they sort of seemed to take turns with it. At first it was the Russian with the entire missile placement plan, but then Kennedy exhibited a rather firm readiness to go all the way, issuing deadlines and all... Eventually, the entire operation was seen as a rather embarrassing defeat amongst the Soviet leadership though and it became a significant factor in his removal from power in 1964.



"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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'facts are stupid things'.... yes so he went with the lies, misconceptions that all politicians do... he was just so good at it... '
Remember 'trikle economics'... the nerve ... & the public bought it.. can you believe that... sheep....

I sleep now.. .

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