Oscar for Best Documentary??


I know that everyone's talking about CAPTURING THE FRIEDMANS, and also there's CORAL REEF ADVENTURE, GHOSTS OF THE ABYSS, MY FLESH AND BLOOD...how does this one stack against those?

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I haven't seen it yet, but my guess is that it stacks up on top of every other documentary this year, just like most of his films from past years have that have never won Oscars but should have. After picking a more, ummm, pervasive subject than his other films, perhaps this will be the one to finally represent for the Academy his masterful body of work. If not, it still won't matter as the Academy Awards are not the ultimate recognition of greatness in film anyway. It's just a group of people, some qualified and some not, picking winners of their idea of the best film. Nothing more.

Take a look at Morris's catalog and then consider this incredible fact: he has never been nominated for an Oscar. If this is not unequivicable proof of major shortcomings in the Academy Awards, then I don't know what is.

All of this said, he will win the Oscar this year. They know that they can't deny his greatness any longer. Heck, they had him direct the damn ceremony last year. Kind of ironic I think...

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I've yet to see CORAL or FLESH, but I do know that capturing the CAPTURING THE FRIEDMANS was a better piece of work than THE FOG OF WAR.

I like Errol Morris a lot, and I was priviledged to hear him discuss the film after its premiere at the Boston Film Festival. FOG is an ambitious work, but is ultimately not a complete film because he let McNamara determine too much of its content. That is to say he uses McNamara's interesting-in-itself interview (that he got mostly by fluke and entirely because of McNamara himself) to make a film that ends being a platform as much as a commentary. Errol contended that this was a feature and not a flaw of the work here, but I disagree: every film makes decisions about perspective and sources of information. By failing to couple McNamara's stuff with something more provocotive than "Lessons from McNamara's life as evidenced in an interview" to hold the film together, Errol simply sacrificed the strength of the self-contained work that is FOG in order to make convenient use of the great coup that was the surprisingly candid interview.

The ending is where Errol throws in his disclaimer when the candidness stops and when the film stops: McNamara is his own man, and as his own man he doesn't care whether Errol makes a movie that gets to the bottom of things.

Yes, Errol, the point of documentaries is to use real evidence and let the evidence speak for itself. But that doesn't mean any collection of interesting evidence makes a great film: it takes an almost greedily ambitious attitude to get the shots that Errol is missing here, and apparently it takes even more luck than Errol got for FOG. It also take creativity and hard work which Errol's work displays in spades.

Errol Morris's films are all worth watching, and FOG is no exception, but this latest is not quite up to snuff.

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This posting is so insipid, it's hard to know where to start. I saw the film at the New York Film Festival in October and heard Mr. Morris speak after the film, so l do feel qualified to point out the myriad mischaracterizations and outright stupidity of your posting.

You write that Morris "uses McNamara's interesting-in-itself interview (that he got mostly by fluke and entirely because of McNamara himself) to make a film that ends being a platform as much as a commentary." Might I ask, would you consider the fact that Andrew Jarecki (director of Capturing the Friedmans) made use of the Friedman family's home videos a fluke? I mean, after all, it's not like Jarecki actually filmed any of the material, it was handed to him (In fact, Capturing the Friedmans was originally intended as a film about clowns; it was only after being shown the home videos that Jarecki decided to make the film he did). Personally, I believe that Jarecki made the best use of the material available to him. If you knew anything about film production, you would know that it's far from a foregone conclusion that great material will lead to a great film. In another director's hands, he or she might have taken the same home videos and made a horrible film.

That being said, I would consider the Friedman's home videos SIGNIFICANTLY more of a fluke than the interview footage of Robert McNamara that Mr. Morris captured. I dare you to find another interview where Robert McNamara admits to behaving like a war criminal. McNamara has probably been interviewed by thousands of journalists over the past 50 years and not once has he ever made that statement, or dozens of other statements that Morris elicited from him. I'm surprised that anyone would be so ignorant as to imagine that the interview material was gotten "entirely because of McNamara himself." By your logic, anyone could have pointed a camera at McNamara and gotten the same interview. Anyone could have made "The Fog of War," or "The Thin Blue Line" or "Fast, Cheap, and Out of Control." Errol Morris just pointed the camera at his subjects and viola, great cinema. Mr. Morris' talents as an interviewer had nothing to do with the quality of the interviews or the film. Yeah, right. I would suggest taking your head out of your ass.

You go on to write:

"By failing to couple McNamara's stuff with something more provocotive than "Lessons from McNamara's life as evidenced in an interview" to hold the film together, Errol simply sacrificed the strength of the self-contained work that is FOG in order to make convenient use of the great coup that was the surprisingly candid interview."

WHAT??? I dare anyone to make any sense of this drivel. But let me guess (I emphasize: GUESS) that what you're saying is that Errol Morris should have included other interviews to make the film more OBJECTIVE, like Capturing the Friedmans I suppose. But apparently you never read any of the articles about Capturing the Friedmans that makes note of how Jarecki interviewed ALL 40 people that were supposedly molested by Arnold Friedman, even though we only see 2 of them in the film. Many of those people stated that they were never molested, and some said they were coerced into saying they were molested. Likewise, how can you make a film about child molestation in the 1980s and not include a discussion of the nationwide panic about child sex abuse that was going on at that time??? Basically, you're mistaking the veneer of objectivity of "Capturing the Friedmans" (i.e. The fact that it has more than one interview) for objectivity. By only having one interview in "The Fog of War," there is no pretense of objectivity. As Morris stated in his post-film discussion, the film is an insider's view of history that gives the audience a different take on history than your supposedly "objective" history channel fluff. The film allows the audience to hear first-hand the self-justifications and self-delusions of one of the most senior members of the U.S. government to ever admit mistakes.

You end your posting by writing:

"Yes, Errol, the point of documentaries is to use real evidence and let the evidence speak for itself. But that doesn't mean any collection of interesting evidence makes a great film: it takes an almost greedily ambitious attitude to get the shots that Errol is missing here, and apparently it takes even more luck than Errol got for FOG."

Again, what the heck does that suppose to mean??? "Greedily ambitious attitutde to get the shots the Errol is missing here"??? I can't even attempt to understand what that means.

Capturing the Friedmans is a very good film, but as far as I'm concerned, The Fog of War is infinitely more thought-provoking and complex.

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Insipid defined to me is referring to an outright "myriad" (nice word, you pretentious jacka*s) of mischaracterizations in my post and then proceeding to write half your post about CAPTURING THE FRIEDMANS which I did not characterize nor analyze at all, and using the other half to type extra question marks and thereby underscore your astounded self-righteous confusion. Your inability to recall your central point and actually describe a single mischaracterization thus enlightened (perhaps you meant to stick solely to my stupidity and thereby confirm your own), your judgment here is clearly in question. If your final sentence had any weight at all, it was emptied by the evidently finite nature of your ability to produce said thoughts, such that what is infinitely thought-provoking to you must, to everyone else, be immediately suspicious.

That said, my comments were positive about the film that I did analyze, and I agree that FOG is thought provoking. The primary thought it provoked in my head was: "Almost." If this was not clear enough in my post, forgive me my trespasses as we forgive those... err, maybe not. Who really cares whether I was clear enough? Make of it what you will.

To answer the actual relevant substance of your harangue, the 'fluke' of the interview did not come about when "hard hitting Errol questions forced McNamara into revealing unprecedented stuff," as you seem to suggest (thereby erroneously characterizing it as the complete opposite of a fluke), but in McNamara _agreeing_ to do the interview even after he was warned by a friend that Errol was "not someone I would want to talk to." This information was relayed to the audience by the director, so perhaps it is considered somewhat privileged, but all the more reason for the likes of jwashma to bite their tongues when they don't know wherefore they speak. Yes, Errol had to set up the interview and ask good questions; yes, Errol seems to be in charge of the show; and no, interviews are not suddenly solo performance pieces.

I don't doubt that given the opportunity Errol would have made the most of it and gotten a better interview and made a great film. By all accounts it seems evident that McNamara gave more of an opportunity for this than anyone, including Errol, and maybe McNamara, himself, expected. But he also remained closed in important ways. Is the result revealing? Of course. Is the result provocative? Sure. Is the result revealing and provocative enough to be esteemed as a first-class piece of work? No.

That was my point and I think it's not that difficult to understand if you watched the film closely. On some level Errol himself must understand this flaw because he had to negotiate the wall he eventually came up against in the interview in order to make the film appear whole. The way that he did this (by letting the audience see the wall McNamara ultimately put up) cannot satisfy him as solid way to tie up loose ends. It may be coherent, but it is a sham veneer of resolution. By apologizing for this in order to promote the greatness of this work one is basically saying: "Errol deserves praise and support because he's worked hard and makes better stuff than the next guy, so it doesn't matter what standard we hold ourselves to, what standard he holds himself to; as long as it's 'thought-provoking,' bring it on!" (No reference to W there intended)

Finally, in reference to your straw-man about what I meant Errol to do differently, you had to guess the meaning because I never said anything about what Errol should have done. It was Errol's film; I can't pretend to know that he could have done anything. Maybe he made the best film he could have possibly made, I really have no idea. What I mean to say is that part of filmmaking is picking the terrain on which you will fight, not just fighting the battle honorably. This is a pretty simple idea, and in this case I'm suggesting that Errol needed some additional terrain to make a complete film without a copout ending. What the terrain should have been or where he was to find it I'm not highfalutin or ignorant enough to suggest.

I like movies that work on any level. Secondarily, I want to see the director challenging the limits of his or her capabilities. I thoroughly enjoy watching half decent films like FOG. But great movies work on many levels--in THE FOG OF WAR, you are not looking at that kind of transcendence.
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EM will never get an Oscar for best documentary, due in part to his reliance upon "re-enactments" which, for some reason, automatically discount the film as pure documentary. I worked on Mr. Death and can say that he is one of the most unique voices in film today. It was also a fun shoot. if he never wins an academy award, who cares? The oscar is so tarnished with bad choices that the best picture award invariably goes to a showy, shallow piece that expires as soon as it leaves the theatres. EM was one of the individuals responsible for bringing this genre back into relevence. Though I have heard Mr. Mc Namara try and account for his behavior, it's so difficult to maintain objectivity and not curse his name in hindsight. As for the other films CTF was the other that pushed controversy. I don't like the film. It's manipulative and mean-spirited, much like the family.

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I haven't had a chance to see it, but from everything I've heard, this movie should be a shoo-in for the Oscar. So consequently, it won't even be nominated. First the academy will never honor Errol Morris, go figure. Second, while it is probably the desire of every filmmaker to win one, I wouldn't put to much credence to winning a Oscar in a category that gave its last award to Michael Moore for something that wasn't close to a documentary.

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I loved both Capturing The Friedmans and The Fog of War.However one film that I loved as much if not more was the documentery Tupac:Ressurrection.It deserves some consideration.
If one would look at this movie and the Fog of War in the same period(no more than a few days a part} Tupac's "thug life" could be really understood/appreciated in a better or different light by intellectual America than it currently is percieved.

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I usually don't pay attention to the Oscar's, since most of what is nominated (with exception to the Best Actress category, sometimes the winner usually does deserve it & hopefully that will be true of Charlize Theron). But this year's documentary competition is mighty stiff. Almost all my favorite films from 2003 were documentaries, many were overlooked too like To Have & To Be, Bus 174, The Lost Boys of Sudan, Yves Saint Laurent 5 avenue Marceau 75116 Paris, The Same River Twice. I still haven't seen FOW or My Archtect yet, but for me The Weather Underground barely edges out Capturing The Friedmans, which barely edges out Bus 174.

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Hi folks, it won the oscar for best documentary :-).

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