Funny how there's no right-wing morons on this board ranting about this film being "propaganda" and "lies" and tailored to a specific viewpoint. I guess hearing it straight from the horses mouth sort of quells the self denial we typically find in Republicans.
Meanwhile over on the Farenheit 911 board...
"Do you really think it's cool to hit the sauce with a bun in the oven?"
Yes, you are right, good point.
Interestingly many 'hawks' of the Vietnam war today shed light into the dark underbelly of the goverment and the war operation. I wonder if we will one day see a similar document featuring Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Powell or perhaps Rice?
since the movie is essentially a monolouge by RN, i dont think they can really retort.
shareHere's what I believe, you guys are a bunch of myopic retards who are contributing to the whole "let's point fingers" hypocrisy of bi-partisan politics. If I recall correctly, all the people involved with Vietnam were Democrats, and it was a Republican that got us out.
share"you guys are a bunch of myopic retards who are contributing to the whole "let's point fingers" hypocrisy of bi-partisan politics"
good point
"If I recall correctly, all the people involved with Vietnam were Democrats, and it was a Republican that got us out."
uh, you just totally did a 180 my friend. you accused the posters of being myopic and you say this trash? holy christ. It was the republicans and democrats together who were responsible for that mess, just like with the Iraq war. Democrats and republicans are two sides of the same coin both trying to position for political dominance. Whatever it takes for them to become the dominate party is fair game, even if it means compromising thier true political beliefs.
Good post videohoax. However, a few posts above: Comparing this film to Fahrenheit 911...ridiculous. Michael Moore has his creative vision or whatever, but it's all his opinion. He wasn't there for anything; McNamara was involved in everything he spoke of, so naturally it's not gonna be disputed. I'm ready to be bashed, but Michael Moore loosely tied together a bunch of trash and made his thesis. I'm sorry but you can't compare FOW with Fahrenheit.
shareSure you can, they are both good in their own way.
shareThe Causes of the Vietnam War
Andrew J. Rotter
The commitment to Vietnam itself, passed from administration to administration, took on validity aside from any rational basis it might once have had. Truman, Eisenhower, and Kennedy all gave their word that the United States would stand by its South Vietnamese allies. If the United States abandoned the South Vietnamese, its word would be regarded as unreliable by other governments, friendly or not. So U.S. credibility seemed at stake.
When the Vietnamese Nationalist (and Communist-led) Vietminh army defeated French forces at Dienbienphu in 1954, the French were compelled to accede to the creation of a Communist Vietnam north of the 17th parallel while leaving a non-Communist entity south of that line. The United States refused to accept the arrangement. The administration of President Dwight D. Eisenhower undertook instead to build a nation from the spurious political entity that was South Vietnam by fabricating a government there, taking over control from the French, dispatching military advisers to train a South Vietnamese army, and unleashing the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) to conduct psychological warfare against the North.
---------------------- E. Lansdale biography
"In 1953, [Edward]Lansdale was sent to Vietnam to advise the French in their struggle with the Vietminh. The following year, Lansdale and a team of twelve intelligence agents were sent to Saigon. The plan was to mount a propaganda campaign to persuade the Vietnamese people in the south not to vote for the communists in the forthcoming elections.
In the months that followed, they distributed targeted documents that claimed the Vietminh and Chinese communists had entered South Vietnam and were killing innocent civilians. The Ho Chi Minh government was also accused of slaying thousands of political opponents in North Vietnam.
Colonel Lansdale also recruited mercenaries from the Philippines to carry out acts of sabotage in North Vietnam...
In October, 1955, the South Vietnamese people were asked to choose between Bo Dai, the former Emperor of Vietnam, and Ngo Dinh Diem for the leadership of the country. Lansdale suggested that Diem should provide two ballot papers, red for Diem and green for Bao Dai.
When the voters arrived at the polling stations, they found Diem's supporters in attendance. "They told us to put the red ballot into envelopes and to throw the green ones into the wastebasket. A few people, faithful to Bao Dai, disobeyed. As soon as they left, the agents went after them, and roughed them up...
Lansdale left Vietnam in 1957 and went to work for the Secretary of Defense in Washington. In March 1960, President Dwight Eisenhower of the United States approved a CIA plan to overthrow Fidel Castro.
If it's anybody it'll be Powell. I hope he does spill the beans some day.
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"An inglorious peace is better than a dishonourable war" ~ John Adams
Let me start by saying that although I'm not a member of the Republican party, I am a right-leaning independant (Libertarianish) who certainly understands how the sheep of the GOP think.
The reason that you don't have a bunch a Republicans squabbling about liberal media bias in this film, is simply because there isn't much liberal bias in this film. There is nothing in this film that is at serious odds with Republican values. Republicans will view this film with Red colored glasses, Democrats will view it with Blue colored glasses. Only those of us that realize your both full of sh*t are able to take off the stupid partisan glasses and get a true view of the bullsh*t from the sidelines.
That doesn't usually stop them. On most boards "liberal bias" is used to mean "lack of a conservative bias".
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"An inglorious peace is better than a dishonourable war" ~ John Adams
It's an interesting point, isn't it? On the one hand, McNamara's expressed opinions are solidly liberal (certainly by the Bush administration's standards). It's not in this film, but he's even on record as saying that the US could and should have reached an accommodation with Ho Chi Minh instead of going to war.
On the other hand, he was responsible for dropping a hell of a lot of bombs and killing a hell of a lot of people, so right wingers probably regard him as one of their own and cut him some slack.
But perhaps the main reason the Bill O'Reilly right on IMDB aren't weighing in here is that they haven't seen the film? Michael Moore is kind of difficult to ignore - Errol Morris is a little more highbrow and abstruse.
I used to want to change the world. Now I just want to leave the room with a little dignity.
He was hired by DEMOCRATS and HE worked for KENNEDY and LBJ both DEMOCRATS you IDIOT.....
And Robert McNamara was a reliable source that had legitimate first hand inside info not just some Michael Moore political wanna-be.
He was hired by DEMOCRATS and HE worked for KENNEDY and LBJ both DEMOCRATS you IDIOT.....Good point, we all know the Republicans didn't want to go into Vietnam at all and knew better than to mess with the situation.
And Robert McNamara was a reliable source that had legitimate first hand inside info not just some Michael Moore political wanna-be.
The Democrat/Republican thing doesn't matter. The OPs point is that Republicans will apologize for ALL wars Americans are involved in. They apologize for Vietnam even after many Democrats admitted it was a blight on their party.
Look, the major point of all this is that history IS NOT always in America's favor. It is usually way more nuanced than that and Americans need to wake up and realize that not everything our elected leaders do is good for the nation or "strategic" for our national interests. Sometimes they want to *beep* with people or show flex out muscle to our enemies or just plain bumble stuff. We have to face facts and continue on instead of continuing on this path of self destructive behavior.
Yeah, there are only LEFT wing morons on this board ranting about this film.
Schrodinger's cat walks into a bar, and / or doesn't.