I am neither ignorant of the Japanese culture nor oblivious to Buddhist symbolism, but seriously...WTF? This crap made no sense what so ever. It started out with one of the best death scenes ever, then degenerated into complete nonsense. I can't believe this film has a 6.7 rating while other, much better films rate 3 or 4 points. Pseudo-intellectual ramblings aside, does anyone else think this movie is just horrible?
"They're coming to get you, Barbara!"
no
shareWatch it again without wondering how good the death scenes are.
http://www.myspace.com/jayakaemo
I agree, it was a poorly made movie. I didn't even like the death scenes, they were all really really fake (massive amounts of wrongly colored blood). Had alot of potential, but i guess it was blown making those little girls sing so good...
shareI understand your confusion spapaleo, and I think the simplistic "you're an idiot" and "watch it again" answers don't answer the original point, and are just too easy. "Watch it again" is only useful advice if you suggest HOW to watch it again and what to look for, so I'll try to do that.
I think to Western viewers this movie is a problem because - and this is obviously a generalisation, Eastern cinema deals much more with cultural and collective identity issues, whereas Hollywood and Western cinema in cultures developed on Christianity and individualism explore selfhood and personal identity. To people who find Suicide Circle confusing in the point it's trying to make, and the plot it's following, I'd suggest 2 things:
1. Remember to think about metaphor.
2. Think on a cultural/ collective rather than an individual level.
The forums here miss the point of the film by thinking literally and individually. The suicide is a cultural suicide, as there is nothing nourishing in popular culture to help create a healthy group identity. The band name "Dessert" is representative of the fact that pop culture is sweet and appealing, but unhealthy and sickly, and is deliberately mistranslated as "Desert" also to suggest the emptiness of pop culture, its lack of life and vitality. The youth of the country are being fed on sickly, empty rubbish, which leads to their collective loss of identity and inability to become healthy, functioning members of society.
The scenes of the suicide are also relevant: the station and the school. What does it mean that the 54 school girls jump in front of a train, while the ending involves boarding a train? Also the school as a venue for suicide? These are all parts of the metaphorical dimension of the film, which mean that the plot has to be followed on a symbolic level, rather than too literally - another example would be the boy who clears his throat - a pointless detail unless you start to think about youth finding a voice, etc, and where is that going to come from? At the same time, "being connected with yourself" is not an invitation to think that this is about simply personal issues, because being "connected" (trains again, etc), involves creating links to the people around you (holding hands etc), and so a healthy society and culture is the only place to find a successful identity.
All this leads to the fact that, if you don't like film that works through metaphor and symbol, and deals with issues of collective rather than personal identity, it's just not for you. In which case, there's nothing wrong with enjoying the action and gore scenes for what they're worth.
Oh my gosh, you're my hero! Amazing response to the OP's question! You show a tremendous amount of respect towards others on imdb by making posts such as this one. You're awesome!
shareI just watched it and got most of that out of it... but I still think the resolution from a story perspective was weak. It wrapped up the concept well, but if they wanted the movie to simply be a concept they should have made it more surreal so that the story would have been more obviously secondary. I was waiting for a big thriller ending with resolution to the plot, but got nothing outside of "Dessert did it." How?! Thematically, yeah, the reason makes sense... but story-wise? I don't buy it.
shareyeah about ur comments above it´s the same as asking ourselves how BRITNEY did it or MILEY. A great number of people in this world are mindless freaks that don´t have a real identity and instead of finding their place in this world prefer to go with the flock, no questions asked...
shareEven though I am a fan of foreign films and watch quite a few I missed some of the points rhythmisadancer-1 made. Thanks for taking the time to write that. I think you've helped a lot of us on here to understand things a little better.
However I still think it was too overdone. Like the bit about his family, and then him. Also if you die your connection to your friends, wife, etc. stays. Well um no it doesn't, there is no more connection. You're dead! If he meant connection by name then its still wrong because your wife can soon become your ex-wife etc. if she remarries. I think most of that stuff tried to be a lot deeper than it actually was.
maybe the connection was via your soul/spirit?
sharealmost pretentious?
I do wonder that if I wasn't reading this subtitles, then maybe I would get the in between things that aren't translated.
If you are Anti-American: Admit you are doing it just to be cool. Does it feel good to hate?
All that aside,it's going to be tough to follow the opening scene of this movie.
"God put you here to test my faith,dude"-BILL HICKS
My interpretation of the connection concept was that your connections with other people in the world are acknowledged by other living people. Thus, they are not severed after you die. For example, you can have a connection with your son. While you both are alive, your connection has an affect on your peers and if anything the peers will at least generate memories = a connection that can not be severed if either one of you die. However, if you die, your connection with youself is gone because no one can truly know the true you since our identities are viewed as whole and unique.
shareWow... rhythmisadancer-1. That was perfectly summed up. In particular I find this true:
"I think to Western viewers this movie is a problem because - and this is obviously a generalisation, Eastern cinema deals much more with cultural and collective identity issues, whereas Hollywood and Western cinema in cultures developed on Christianity and individualism explore selfhood and personal identity."
The themes in Suicide Club remind me of the Japanese show Paranoia Agent.
Salo was not even remotely insightful... the story and themes were just an excuse to be notorious.
flyingcowherder
The themes in Suicide Club remind me of the Japanese show Paranoia Agent.
Thank you for giving me a reason to consider seeing this film. I don't mind gore in a film when there's a good reason for it, but other than that it disgusts me.
*edit* to clarify: It disgusts me either way, but I will tolerate it for the sake of a filmmaker making a meaningful statement/not compromising an important message.
rhythmisadancer-1 is right that this movie is about collectivism vs individualism. And these concepts apply to both social and cultural level. The different forms of these two concepts. And how identity is derived from these 2 different cultural models.
Essentially, it points out the pros and cons of both.
Peer group pressure is a form of collectivism. School aged kids are more susceptable to this than any other aged groups. As a joke, or dare, the school pulpils decide to stand on the ledge of a school roof and they all eventually jump because of peer group pressure. Also, the fact that they decide to have a dare because of the suicide "fad". Fad is an expression of peer group pressure. Also, a dare only matters in a peer group context. Identity is derived by following the group code, like Samurai. If you don't follow, you have no honour. Honour is more important than life itself. You rather die than live in shame.
If all my school mates watch Suicides Club and I didn't, I would feel left out of the group, in fact, I may be even got ridiculed for not watching it.
In real life, manny youth suicides are caused by peer group pressure of one kind or another.
When we want to ridicule somebody who just follows the group blindly, we would say, "Why don't you go jump a bridge (or a train platform) if your friends tell you to?" This movie is a metaphor of that saying. A Club is a Group. It's instinctual that we want to belong to a group or club. Of course, culture is an expression of our instincts.
The 34 year old blond rocker who calls himself the Charles Manson of the Internet Age is the example of the extreme form of individualism. In this form of individualism, you're only remembered for something you've done. You have to make a name for yourself. He claims to be the mastermind of the mass suicides because he needs to appear on TV, and be remembered. Of course, Charles Manson is extremely selfish and self serving individual. And he manipulated impressional kids to do what he wanted.
But in a collective society as in most Asian society, you're defined by your relationships to others. So even if you die, you will be remembered, therefore connected, by others - your loved ones. But when you die, you're disconnected from yourself because you can not remembered by yourself. Can you now?
The adults - represented by the cops - don't have a clue what's going on. This is a typical generation gaps. Many youth suicides in real life occur because the adults are clueless about their lives. They could have prevented it. They're not sharing their children's lives, and helping their kids to resolve their personal issues. The results are tragic.
The girl band - Dessert, Desert, or Dessart - represent the youth culture and conformity. During a family dinner, Detective Kuroda asks questions about the girl band that shows his total ignorance of their kids' world. And never suspects the band is the mastermind because he - represents the adults - think these things are harmless. And didn't want to understand it either.
Thus the mass suicides - a metaphor for high suicide rates - are not the kids fault. Don't blame the girl band, blame the adults. detective Kuroda understands that and so he turns his gun on himself after acknowledges it.
Really? If your so intelligent and well informed, perhaps you'd be smart enough to know that complaining a film made no sense to you, and then claiming it's horrible on a bulletin board is ignorant.
I'm not ignorant of the Japanese culture either, and I thought in consideration of the Japanese culture and their views of suicide, it was spot on. Are you just saying your not ignorant in order to give your post some validity? Even someone who's just a Pokemon or Hello Kitty fan, would seem to know more about Japanese culture than you.
i agree with the poster. i find it a torture to watch this film.
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