MovieChat Forums > Heimat 3 - Chronik einer Zeitenwende (2004) Discussion > What Kind of Ending Was That?

What Kind of Ending Was That?

posted 16 years ago by richard.fuller1
9 replies | jump to latest

I have sat thru I, II and III, found the first one and the second one to both end in a satisfying manner (I've enjoyed all three series, that is, until . . . ) -- THEN THE ENDING OF PART 3???

The millenium ends, begins, whatever, 2000, and we focus on a crying Lulu?

I thought only our American movies seeking sequels were this obvious; lets look forward to the next installment, this time focusing on Lulu!

The thing is, the first one ended very complete for me, and the second one, likewise ended very solidly, but the third one was blank.

I was expecting a grand emphasis back on Hermann and Clarissa. Everything seemed closed enough, but we then get Lulu. Made no sense.

I liked the kick to each episode's ending, but this one left it incomplete.

Might as well have focused on Lukas sitting there at the piano, for all this one did.

Or one of Arnold's daughters. Would have amounted to as much as seeing Lulu like that.

Yes, she was Hermann's daughter, but other than having the kid whose father had died, she really didn't do much. Oh, she got the flooding vault bit as well, in the last part.

Bit of a letdown. I haven't watched the Extras dvd yet (needed a breather. I do have to pay bills, alas), so maybe that will offer some explanation, . . . . . I guess!

[–] BlueGreen 16 years ago

Well, to me, the entire series - except for the first episode - was a huge letdown. And nobody could have been more disappointed than me.

I am crazy about Heimat II, it's my favourite work of cinema - and, I think, the only work that gets me raving like this. ;)
So, it's not that I don't "understand" Reitz's poetics or anything like that - I DO, and I am in AWE at his directorial virtuosity. (There, I am raving again... :))

It's just that, after spending so much time with each of the protagonists of Heimat II and their relationships - which was pure magic - there was just too much emphasis on the totally new characters (whose introduction was expected and necessary, of course). Or maybe the NATURE of the emphasis wasn't quite right. Anyway, I was more than a little disappointed by it, from episode two on. That magic that had kept me glued to the TV during Heimat II was gone.

However, the "Fragments", which can be considered as a sort of "epilogue" - only, not really - are, in my opinion, once again a work worthy of Heimat I and, especially, II.

[–] richard.fuller1 16 years ago

Well, II was a complete turn around from I for me.

I just took it as all being European or German film, the direction and focus that each story would do.

In America, we had The Winds of War, which focused on Robert Mitchum, but the sequel apparently ended up focusing on John Gielgud and Jane Seymour. I watched none of these programs by the way.

Also, on an incredibly lighter note, each of the original Planet of the Apes movies 'concluded' but found a door to follow to the next film, but each one essentially led to the same road.

I enjoyed II, mainly for a different approach to the 1960s youth movement (in America, this generation is always glorified), but especially liked that it was Glasitch (and the original actor) who approached Hermann at the end.

I liked III for its tie in to the first Hiemat with the two brothers, especially, but I really don't think an ending on Lulu was necessary. She didnt compel the program or intrigue me.

If there is to be a IV, it is obvious it will focus on Lulu, and maybe an apeareance by Hermann?

Just too predictable.

[–] BlueGreen 16 years ago

I thought maybe the "extras" you were referring to were the "Fragments" that I was referring to.
(I don't have the DVD, so I wouldn't know.)

If they aren't, then, yes, you are right: it's the fourth film and it focuses on Lulu, in the sense that the "fragments" are edited to present her perspective, her private "quest", connecting it with the other women in the series.

It may (or may not) sound contrived - but I think you should definitely give it a go. These "fragments" are made of footage that wasn't used in the first two series, and they are used, among other things, to pick up the threads and reveal some of the unseen facets of some of the women's lives.
It has moments of breathtaking insight and beauty, on the level of Heimat I and II.

My only criticism - and it seems I am not alone in this sentiment - is that the men are left out without a particularly good reason. After all, there were some fascinating male characters, especially in Heimat II.

But knowing Reitz's quasi-obsessed reverence for women and their fate, it's understandable, I suppose. ;)

[–] richard.fuller1 16 years ago

No, I still havent watched it. Yes, I have the dvd collection so to speak.

Hiemat I, II and III.

I guess the fragments are with the third one then. This was released as IV?

I like the programs completed, not that you have to look elsewhere for explanations.

I guess some venures might find that entertaining, such as the American show Lost (people were having to go to websites for answers and explanations there).

Be that as it may, Heimat I ended with the deaths of the two long-lasting characters.

Heimat II begins with the pursuits of the son, Hermann, of one of those previous mentioned characters, but ends with with the appearance of Glasich.

Three was an entirely different focus; the unification of Germany. I just saw no reason to end on Lulu like that, as tho it was following the family tree, when the shows seemed to deal more with the persons and the country around them, not a family soap opera.

It seems if nothing else, Lulu's mother should have appeared (and granted, I know she did turn up in III) and said something profound and distinctive, if ever so basic, to Lulu, as Glasich did to Hermann at the end of two.

[–] BlueGreen 16 years ago

I can't believe how "blonde" I get after only 30 + hours without sleep...

I could have simply directed you to its page!
It's here:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0810894/

Lulu's mother does show up, and so do some of the other women from I and II.
(Hermann's mother features rather prominently. Helga, alas, does not appear - not as far as I can remember; but I suppose it's not difficult to imagine her subsequent fate... But then, most of the other women don't appear either.)

To me, it was very special because practically all of the footage - except the frame of Lulu's story - was "leftovers" from I and II, things that Reitz wanted included but were edited out because they would have bloated or sidetracked the previous films.

I think you might like it.
I hope you do! :)

[–] Jonathan Dore 15 years ago

I think a very obvious reason why Reitz wasn't able to conjure a satisfying end to the series was because the funding he had originally counted on collapsed and he had to scale back his plans (which is why HIII is so much shorter than HI or II) -- if you see him interviewed in the documentary that comes with the DVDs of HIII, he says he had no shortage of material, and could have gone on "telling stories" till the cows came home had not the money run out. (If you'll all forgive the comparison, the situation was the same with the last Star Trek series "Enterprise", which finished unsatisfactorily half-way through its originally planned production.)

Decisions to bring back, or not bring back, characters from HI and HII may also be down to simple questions of whether or not the actor was available -- remember that a lot of the cast in the earlier series were not professional actors and did not continue with careers in acting, so may have chosen not to be involved even if asked. For instance Clarissa's first husband Volker, who turned out to be one of the most sympathetic characaters in HII, seemed an obvious character to bring back even if only for one scene (as Schnüsschen was, giving us some resolution to the situation at the end of HII), but Armin Fuchs, who played Volker, is a professional musician (see http://www.armin-fuchs.com) who was probably too busy to be involved, and in the end his character is, sadly, not even mentioned by name once in the entire HIII. Similarly, Peter Harting, the original Hermann in HI, gave a fantastic performance and would have been wonderful in HII, but presumably wasn't available (his IMDB page shows an 11-year gap from 1984-1995 when he was off doing something else), requiring Henry Arnold to be cast in the role.

[–] BlueGreen 15 years ago

See, I didn't know that - about the lack of funding, I mean.
I can imagine that would affect the production quite a bit.

And yet... I don't know, I really believe - or rather, I have this unshakable "gut" feeling - that the lack of "emotional" cohesion (for lack of a better term) is due to narrative flaws in-built in the script. That's what makes this (very relative!) failure so puzzling to me: I wouldn't have expected Reitz to lose the "thread" like that and allow the story to go in all directions.

Then again, more than ten years had passed between the making of II and II, and Reitz wasn't a 58-60 year old anymore; he was a 70+ man. And the difference, of course, goes way beyond the number of years that elapsed in the meantime.

Like you, I was VERY disappointed- to the point of being shocked - by the omission of Volker. It simply doesn't make sense.
But I find it extremely difficult to believe that ANY actor, but especially one who actually participated in the "Heimat II" series, would forgo the unique opportunity of appearing in the sequel, regardless of his other engagements (after all, shooting schedules are arranged well in advance).

Anyway, I missed all the characters from II (especially Juan; and Helga would ave been interesting to see, too). They loose ends absolutely should have been tied - and they weren't.

Pity.

[–] Jonathan Dore 14 years ago

Yes, I was certainly expecting more follow-up of characters from II, and was quite surprised at how definitely III was a "homecoming" in the sense of returning to the family and personalities, as well as the locations, of the original Heimat, to the virtual exclusion of the characters of II (with the obvious exception of Clarissa). From an artistic point of view I can understand the attraction of the "symmetry" that approach gives the trilogy (like the exposition, development, and recapitulation of sonata form, if you'll forgive the flight of fancy). On the upside, it did give us a chance to get to know Hermann's elder brothers better -- for me, Ernst emerged as the most intriguing character in the whole of Heimat III -- but on the downside we got a whole raft of new characters who then mostly fizzled out (the builders, for instance) at the expense of further development of some of the characters from II who we already knew and would have liked to see again.

Perhaps Reitz was trying to remind us that the whole trilogy wasn't just about Hermann. He hadn't been the central character of the first series, and it only dawned on me half-way through Heimat III that he and Clarissa weren't the central protagonists of the third part either (as they had been in II), but just part of an ensemble in which the other Simon brothers were meant to be just as prominent. Once I realized that and stopped viewing everything not related to Hermann and Clarissa as background subplot, it did make more sense.

[–] mervyn55 9 years ago

I'm glad to see someone else removing/distancing Hermann and Clarissa from the centre of Heimat III. Having watched it every year (along with I and II), I've found I've increasingly appreciated Anton and Ernst's contributions as being worth far more than I'd realised the first time I saw it. Probably because I always watch it directly after watching Heimat II I've been led in the past towards watching Hermann and Clarissa's story, but the real storytelling for me lies in watching Anton and Ernst - if I follow those two, I can see and enjoy the consistency from Heimat I, where the adding of new characters fits better than if I concentrate on Hermann and Clarissa. That said, I have found myself becoming more critical of Clarissa...and more intrigued by Ernst.
As for the ending, I can appreciate that funding difficulties must have hampered things and possibly left Lulu's character short of depth, but to have left the last shot focusing on Lulu's tears has always appeared wrong to me - I've never been able to care for her enough.