Is Aardman overdoing claymation ?


From the Trivia:

During filming, Aardman managed an average of 3 seconds of usable
footage per day.


They do everything in stop-motion, even what could easely be shot continuous, such as car rolling, rope flinging, things falling, mechanisms flipping or rotating and so on...

It sure keeps a unity of style, but man... I cringe at the thought of the work involved.

Sometimes I think more practical, easier solutions would fare just as good.

What do you think?

reply

You think it's really all that much easier to do CGI?

Supermodels...spoiled stupid little stick figures mit poofy lips who sink only about zemselves.

reply

No, but I am not talking about CGI.

I thought many shots without character (or character movement) could have been shot real-time, but on closer examination most of them featured claymation bits , thus had to be stop-motion.
Besides, clay models probably don't handle well any form of shaking around.

That said some shots do feature motion blur, but I just can't figure out if it is real or fake.

reply

My point was that ALL forms of animating are time-consuming.

Supermodels...spoiled stupid little stick figures mit poofy lips who sink only about zemselves.

reply

"You think it's really all that much easier to do CGI? "

This message comes around 6 years too late.. but better late than never, right?

First of all, what do you think the acronym "CGI" means? It comes from the words "Computer Graphics Integrated".

Shouldn't your question, then, more logically be something like: "Do you think it's much easier to do ICG?"

Unless you meant movies completely made with computers, but then, the letter "I" wouldn't even be used or needed, because the computer graphics are not really INTEGRATED (into a camera-shot-footage, which is what it means), but form all visuals completely.

Why doesn't anyone use the more logical word, "rendered"? Why is it always "CGI"? It's like people have lost and forgotten the meanings of acronyms, and just use them recklessly. How many times has anyone, who uses the acronym "LOL", for example, ACTUALLY laughed out loud before using it?

As to how easy it is to do rendered movies;

I'd say it's easier, and although it is also time-consuming work, and can be tedious in its own way, it's not as patience-requiring, as you can progress faster, and actually do more things per day. You can also change camera angles, lighting, do test-renders and test and tweak the animations more easily, but with real-world limitations, you can't easily get -exactly- the kind of shot you want, or test different variations without losing a lot of time, film, and work. Like, if you want to do a different swing of the left arm, or twist the body instead of straight walk, you can make such a change pretty easily and quickly in the world of computers. But in claymation stop-motion, you'd have to probably spend DAYS just to test how it would look, or at least a lot longer.

Besides, once all the modeling, lighting, texturing, animating and all that is done, all you have to do is click "render" and let the computer (more like hundreds or thousands of computers) do the final rendering (which might still take a really long time, but at least it won't require the humans to do much).

In stop-motion animation, you have to film every single frame by yourself, and if something is amiss or messed up, you have to re-shoot that frame.

Also, making things look like they are flowing or slowly dripping, like water, mustard, marmelade or something, is said to be really a nuisance in stop-motion (probably exactly because they refuse to do it in a continuous shot) and make it look good. With a computer, it's considerably easier, and quicker to do.

The point is, with computers, you don't have to film each frame separately, you can focus on the animation (and the other aspects) and test all kinds of stuff before the final render. With stop-motion, you can't do that - it's got to be more tedious to have to physically film every single friggin' frame of a movie that has almost 100 000 frames. That's a hundred thousand - that is, if they use a 12 fps framerate (which is half of the normal movie framerate for practical reasons - I think it'd be insane to do 24, that would make it almost 200 000 frames, if the movie is two hours long).

In any case, that's an _ENORMOUS_ amount of frames .. which is easier, film every single frame individually, or letting the computer render each frame?

In MANY ways, doing rendered movies _IS_ easier.

Not easy, but easier.

The difficulty comes from having to create everything from scratch, and not being able to use real-world faculties, like terrain, real-world-lights, and such effects - the 'artists' have to create every single model, every single light, every single texture, every single object, no matter how insignificant, by themselves.

They have to create forces, like 'gravity' and they have to devise methods to create 'realistic motion' (though here the stop-motion might also have a lot of difficulty, but at least they have physical models to move physically), like motion-capture and all.

Both are a huge amount of work and trouble, but I'd estimate that stop-motion is more tedious and in many ways more difficult, although in some small ways, perhaps easier (they never have to worry whether a glowing object is reflected properly or if there's enough radiosity-layers to make it look good - the real world already offers ready-made radiosity-effect, perfect mirrors for everything, and even glints, that are hard to render with certain packages - though I guess that's why they create their own ones).






reply

Unless you meant movies completely made with computers, but then, the letter "I" wouldn't even be used or needed, because the computer graphics are not really INTEGRATED (into a camera-shot-footage, which is what it means), but form all visuals completely.


Wrong acronym. MetFanMac meant Computer-generated Imagery.

Why doesn't anyone use the more logical word, "rendered"? Why is it always "CGI"? It's like people have lost and forgotten the meanings of acronyms, and just use them recklessly. How many times has anyone, who uses the acronym "LOL", for example, ACTUALLY laughed out loud before using it?


Funny. That acronym originally meant: little old lady.

The first part of your post doesn't match the rest -- it's a rant at a old post.

The difficulty comes from having to create everything from scratch, and not being able to use real-world faculties, like terrain, real-world-lights, and such effects - the 'artists' have to create every single model, every single light, every single texture, every single object, no matter how insignificant, by themselves.


Packages can be used (textures, models, and shaders). Think of it along the lines of sound effects.

reply

yeah but ardman has based its whole look on its style of claymation, without there films would ruin there whole feel. case in point : flushed away, rid of clay, rid of success and quality.

plus as nick park says claymation gives you the oppurtunities to have the free range to do the same things as animation i.e. maniuplatiion of the charcters, alowing pretty much anything. while at the same time an be lit and you get a fairly real live action quality.

aardman obviosuly now that clay-mation is a a recipe for success, and wouldn't spend all that time doing it if they didn't realise that they would end up with and amazing result

at least least thats what i recon

reply

FLushed away still had a very similar clay like feel to it, like wallace and grommit

They did it CGI because you cant get plastercine modls wet and still animate, plus water is far to fluid to work in stop motion

reply

I think that doing everything this way (the hard way, using stop motion modelling and animation) adds real charm and feeling to the film, as you appreciate all the effort that's gone into making it.

Yes, it takes much longer, requires much more work and expertise, but it just seems to make the end result so much more "worthwhile" and "valuable" than CGI films that lack that human touch.

reply

Flushed Away had many of the right ingredients but for me lacked something due to the CGI. It was a problem for me with most of the CGI animations.

No contest - stick to claymation.

reply

It took Ray Harryhousen months to get a minute or two of footage, too. I think Wallace and Gromit done any other way just wouldn't be Wallace and Gromit.

reply

he did it all stop motion to keep it uniform. the movies benefit from the hard work and would and it would effect the qaulity if corners were cut. besides cgi is way over used in modern films

reply

Do you have any idea how long it took Michelangelo to paint the Sistine Chapel?

Quality art takes time.

reply

You can't overdo Claymation, it's way too cool. CGI however...

reply

I agree, I think they should only make claymation, it's so much cooler and way more impressive.

reply

I grew up with Aardman, (not literally of course) , Creature Comforts was a family event, Wallace & Gromit too.

I appreciate that it takes Aardman an obscene amount of time to film everything they do but I've watched interviews with the wonderful Nick Park. Whilst it is clear that it takes time, it's also obvious that it's something done with absolute passion. I would surmise that Park could easily switch to something slightly less demanding I don't see it ever happening nor want it to.

It's the personal touches that I love about this company. From the time they give to those fingerprint ridges in the clay which transports me back to my childhood, there's something there for everyone. Aardman's trademark is claymation and I hope it stays that way 


“It's blood. Blood screaming inside you to work its will"

reply

That 3 seconds per day sounds like a bit of an exaggeration to me.

Let's do some basic maths...

3 seconds per day x 5 days per week = 15 seconds per week.

4 weeks per minute.

10 minutes after 40 weeks.

85 minute running time.

40 x 8.5 and 10 x 8.5 = 340 weeks for 85 minutes

340 / 52 = 6.54

So yup, using some dodgy maths, they would have spend 6.5 years shooting this film.






Never defend crap with 'It's just a movie'
http://www.youtube.com/user/BigGreenProds

reply