MovieChat Forums > Boksuneun naui geot (2002) Discussion > Who do you feel more sympathy for?

Who do you feel more sympathy for?


Ryu or President Park?

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Nobody??

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more for President Park.

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Ryu. President Park purposely murdered an innocent (the delivery guy), so I still feel for him, but he'd gone crazy and needed to be put down anyways.

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Ryu, but I'm prejudiced, because I'm deaf too

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I just finished the movie for the first time, and as of now I feel more sympathy for President Park... but yeah, he did start to loose it at the end. I kind of wanted Ryu to stay alive at the end, but the ending was still really good.

"I Am Jack's Wasted Life"

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I didn't feel much sympathy for either, especially Park because he became a bastard. Ryu just went insane. Needless to say they both got their vengeance.

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[deleted]

Come on guys, if someone murdered your daughter for NO reason, (or so it would appear) you would do the same.

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They didn't murder her. She died because Ryu was hearing impaired

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I agree, if someone kidnapped my family member and they died after I paid the ransom, I wouldn't listen even if I held them at gun point and them saying it was an accident.

I don't feel sympathetic towards Park, coz him killing the girlfriend like that was just simply too cruel... I mean... well yeah, she was involved, but common... hearing a girl scream like that chilled me to the bone... but well, to him it was probably music to the ears o.o?

I also found him licking the girl's ears in an almost erotic extent... also chilling...

My sympathy goes to Ryu... he did it all for his dying sister... and what did he get in the end? having the ankle ligament cut (which disables the human balance and the ability to walk) and drown... then get hacked into pieces to be put in plastic bags.

Not saying kidnapping is a good thing and he's not innocent for going through with it either, but it was such innocent reason...

Humans are destroyers of the worlds.
Humans shall destroy them selves in the end.

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For President. Ryu and the girl were two sbags. Actually the girl's death was way too easy.

"Stalingrad. . . The fall of Stalingrad was the end of Europe. There's been a cataclysm."

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Don't know, it's a hard question, and in all honesty, neither, it has to be the man at the lake, that was a very good performance by him.

Here comes the sun.

Me!

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[deleted]

they were tortured because it made the film last longer... gr8 film

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Yeah, I was pretty pissed at the way Park Killed Ryu's girlfriend... that would lean my Sympathy more on Ryu's side.

"I Am Jack's Wasted Life"

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yeh i kinda half looked away, i knew what was coming and wasn't looking forward to it. I feel more sorry for ryu, mostly because his cirumstances were more unfortunate but then i root for the underdog...

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what I take from it is this: you have to feel sympathy for both of them because they know not what they do. Neither character is able to accept their guilt. Ryu should have left the organ dealers alone, but he rejected his own mistakes (which are an inherent aspect of the human condition) and projected them outward on to others, blaming the organ dealers for the loss of his sister.

Meanwhile, the father is unable to accept the loss of his daughter, unable to show emotion at her funeral, embodied by vengance. That is the sadness there -- he becomes inhuman, to the point of inhumanly murdering 3 people. The apparition of his daughter also blames him for not teaching her to swim, and in fact the daughter liked Ryu and had no hard feelings against him. It was simply an accident.

Thus, if Ryu had accepted the tragic death of his sister and gone on living his life, and if the father had accepted the tragic death of his daughter and done the same, the outcome would not have been as horrific. Indeed, the scene where Ryu locates and sets up the organ dealers to kill them is interwoven with the scene where Park locates Ryu's apartment and tells his source, "I will kill them."

The decision of each character to get vengeance on the other is their ultimate downfall. Psychologically, they each believe a fiction, an illusion that crashes back to the real. For Ryu, he believes killing them will fulfill his revenge fantasy but in fact it isn't enough, and he is left in a psychotic state, eating their kidneys as futile attempt to exact retribution, but it gives him no peace. In fact, he loses his girlfriend at precisely the same moment (and implicitly because of) his vengeance drive.

Park has a similar delusion, the fiction that killing his daughters killers will give him peace, when in fact it does not -- the phone ringing when he is in the car after killing Ryu accented and punctuated the horror of it, and he certainly does not feel a grim satisfaction from it (in fact he is simply cold, morbid and devoid of humanity -- he has dehumanized himself through his rejection, externalization and projection of guilt).

Both characters are so similar as to ask what the difference really is. I analyzed the film again last night, watching it for the second time, and one idea is that Ryu represents the id, or unconscious drives (see Zizek's "The Pervert's Guide to Cinema" for an example of this). As Zizek points out, Freud said that drives are silent. Zizek compares the character of Harpo Marx to the id in its silent, impulsive, good natured but innocently evil sort of way. I'm not sure if this role completely fits with Ryu but it is one way to look at it. In that way, the character of Park would then be the ego -- self-centered, calculating, logical, intellectual. This would show that really both the ego and id are capable of horrors, though each in their own unique way. The ego is capable of unfeeling, rational and unspeakably cold acts of sadism such as when Park tortures Ryu's girlfriend to death. The id reacts in a more primal way, not using the refined and sophisticated electro-shock but rather a bludgeoning instrument, perhaps symbolic of its less refined, primal rage type drive.

This is just one reading of the film and I don't mean to say that Park Chan Wook intended this to be understood, it's just one explanation for the psychological behaviors and actions carried out by the characters, and perhaps one lesson we can learn from this film.

The question of who to feel sympathy for, I think we are supposed to feel sympathy for both of them. Ryu is certainly sympathetic in his naive, pure innocence and foolish gullibility. Park is sympathetic as the random victim of fate who loses his daughter. Both of them become unsympathetic as the film goes on, but even then, I believe Park Chan Wook is challenging us to feel sympathy for them.

Interestingly, Park Chan Wook wanted the film to start full color and gradually drain to black and white, a theme he successfully executed in Lady Vengeance but was unable to do for this film.

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[deleted]

I like this analysis Dempyc... thank you.

for me, it was hard feeling sympathy for either.
the revenge was so cold, so vicious..

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Remember that Park saw a picture of Ryu's girlfriend with his daughter, telling him that the girlfriend was an accomplice.
I guess that was enough reason for Park to kill her in that way.
But it was still messed up

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Also, keep in mind that the entire kidnapping scheme was the girlfriend's idea. Of course, Park had no way of knowing this. But WE knew, and in a sense she did not deserve a swift or painless demise.

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How about some sympathy for me? I went to Blockbuster and they don't have this movie. sniff :(

www.lost.eu/d280

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I watched it FINALLY last night, after picking up the special edition for a very sweet £6 from HMV! Ketchuplover, you do have my deepest sympathies.

:)

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Everone is saying "what if it happened to you" then you have the right to kill the offender. Thats what society teaches you, that justice means eye for an eye. "I want that guy to be locked up forever" or "i want him on the electric chair" etc.
Think about it. How do you define justice? What dose the dominant way of thinking define justice as?

I dont think an eye for an eye is what justic is, even if it happened to someone in my family. This society dose not know forgivness. Locking a person up will only breed more criminals. I think its a message you all kinda didnt get. This is seen very clearly in sympathy for mrs vengence, when the group of parents systematically decided how to kill the man that killed their children.

Also both these guys are not "bad guys" in my opinion. The only "bad guys" in the film are the illegal organ transplant people. Otherwise, these are normal people who wish to live their lives in peace, through circumstance end up killing each other etc. But i have to say I have a lot more sympathy for ryu. He really didnt get much of a revenge were as park got to electrocute a girl and cut off ryu achillies tendon and watch him drown. Not that revenge should make him a happier person than ryu, but ryu died in a sadder state of mind.

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I agree that the only bad guys to begin with were the organ transplanters and if it wasn't for them this whole cycle of madness would never have begun but unfortunately both of the character's become evil in their own way.

Ryu had a choice to begin with and he made the wrong one which cost him his siter and his girlfriend and ultimately his life but he could have stopped the madness earlier on even after the child had died by handing himself in and explaining what had happened. Sure Park would not have been understanding with this but he would have been forced to see that the death was an accident and that Ryu's position was created out of desperation.

Park, on the other hand, is guilty as well because of his quest and thirst for vengeance that ends up causing him to kill three people. Two of the victims were legitimately guilty of the crime but the third was an innocent. Park was driven by his need to see a "just" resolution no matter the cost. He was warned when he killed the girl, that her compatriots would kill him, yet he still killed her. But with her I dont think he got a sexual thrill from her death as can be seen with how he just stares at the pictures of his daughter when he finally does the deed. At this point i think he was completely numb to the suffering of others, not aroused by it.

There are several messages that can be taken from this film, but one can not get the message that being locked up will breed more criminals from this movie as there is no mention of jail. These two became monsters through tragedy and a need for vengeance.

This thirst is where the message truly lies, in my opinion, and the message is that vengeance will only eat away at a person, turning them into what they despise the most as well as costing them everything they hold dear just to get back at those responsible. It also shows that vengeance takes away one's reason as well as one's sanity as can be seen in both Ryu and Park.

You can also see this message in Oldboy.

As for the original question, who would I feel sympathy for. I feel sympathy for both of them. Ryu was faced with losing his sister, whom he loved very much, and was swindled out of his money and a kidney by the crooks in an attempt to save his sister's life. He was put in a very heart wrenching position and he made some very bad choices that cost him more than he was expecting to pay.

Park was an innocent who ended up having his daughter kidnapped from him only to find out that she died after paying the ransom for her safe return. Of course, he fired Ryu but the movie does not give a reason why he did this, maybe his company could no longer afford to keep him on staff, so one can not truly hold the firing against Park as we do not know the circumstances which led to his decision. But back to the topic. Park lost his daughter and was put into a very hard place where he blamed himself for what had happened and his grief turned to anger and anyone can sympathize with that but he also made bad choices in how he approached his grief and anger.

Both deserve sympathy but at the same time both should be held accountable for their own actions.

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There are several messages that can be taken from this film, but one can not get the message that being locked up will breed more criminals from this movie as there is no mention of jail. These two became monsters through tragedy and a need for vengeance.

no thats not from the film, thats just my opinion, sorry

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Ryu!<!<!<??! cuz he lost his sister, his girlfriend, his delivery man (lol), and the guilt of letting a poor little girl die, as opposed to president park who just kiled people.

___________
Trans-oceanic Death to this earth

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[deleted]

Ryu obviously
Park also has my sympathy (for Mr Vengeance)

Either way, had he done a straight exchange then the girl would still be alive so unfortunately he deserved what Park did to him.

IMHO he would've done the exchange. He couldn't have done it when he took the money, it was too dangerous and had to secure the money before
BTW your comment about Ryu's behaviour with the girl is kinda parnoiac, you're an american? Am I right?

====================
Omae wa mo shinderu

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Nice. Thanks for the replies, everyone!

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They both lost everything they had ever cared about, they were both losing it at the end (Park killed random people, Ryu ate the illegal organ transplant family's kidneys), they were both lonely (one was hated by employees and left by his wife, the other was deaf and mute), and isolated (they're worlds were kinda small, and they both couldn't communicate proper with the ones they loved). One lost both children, one lost his sister and girlfriend. They're really paralel characters, and the one you feel more sympathy for is just your personal favourite, cause they're both equally tragic.

I prefer Ryu cause he isn't driven by hate and vengeance at first, he's dragged in the situation out of love for his sister. His innocence gets him into being robbed, and his handicaps cause him too accidentaly drown a young girl (which he cared about too)...

Park is simply torn apart by hate and sorrow now his world had fallen apart. Ryu was acting the same way at the end, so they both changed too.

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I feel a whole lot more sympathy for Ryu. It might seem cruel to say so, but his personal history struck me as more tragic than Park's. He did everything he could to save his sister, and she committed suicide. While granting her last wish, an innocent child drowns and he can feel personally responsible. On top of that, he gets to stare into his dead girlfriend's face.
Granted, when he did snap he snapped pretty badly. But I can imagine that, seeing how each setback separately could drive anyone to insanity.

All the sympathy I could have for Park was because of his daughter's death. But while watching his rampage, I couldn't help thinking: "okay, it's sad how your little girl died. But now you're just being an *ss."
Honestly, I was furious when he murdered Ryu. He went way too far to get my sympathy.

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I had conflicting emotions. I felt bad for Park in the beginning but by the end I didn't have sympathy for anyone. I suppose I still felt, somehow, better about Parks death because of his own lack of sympathy for his fired worker and for not just killing 2 people but torturing them.

It's a cliche but to paraphrase ... if we all live by the motto 'eye for an eye' the entire world would be blind. No one is perfect and compassion is vital to life.

Other people have said "You would do the same thing if you were in his position". Many people might and I won't villify them for it BUT I would not. I can't imagine killing anyone, besides in self defense, and really couldn't fathom torture. I would think a man sick for torturing and murdering me or someone else, so even as revenge, I would still feel that it was a betrayal of myself, my soul.

However, I can't agree that Ryo didn't deserve to be in prison. He did, what else could be done with him? While compassion is important so, also, is justice and atonement.

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