A girldfriend AND a sister?


I've watched this movie 1.5 times now, and have been very confused both times. Now I understand that maybe the deaf guy has a girlfriend and a sister. I'd never seen that they were two different people and thought things were very strange. Going to look at it again now to see if they actually are two different people. The three people I've seen this movie with also didn't understand why he was having sex with his sister and why she was alive again. Has anyone else had this problem?

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the sister and girlfriend are two completely different people.

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It's preety unclear up until they kidnap the little girl.
There's a scene in front of some blocks of apartments. Then you can clearly see Ryu, his sister - she's the one sitting on a swing, and Cha Yeong-mi, his girlfriend - the one that's dancing around singing about defeating the communists, or something like it. So, there's two of them...

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el jej

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lol i made the exact same mistake watching this movie for the first time. They look very similar.

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Actually, they don't look similar at all.

The sister has long hair and is very feminine, and the girlfriend has short hair with kind of boyish looks (way of dressing, of moving etc.).

But I did confuse them in the begining, mostly because of the way it was filmed and edited. They don't appear in many scenes together, nd the sister is kind of an absent center, having any real lines only after the little girl is kidnapped.

Anyway, it confuses me how many things are not really clear while others are way too explained (the flashback voice over about the terrorist group, for example).

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yeah the flashback voice was unnecessary I feel. Over-explaining.
_____________________________
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Is not knowing how to work the world"

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I would normally absolutely agree with you on that point but it was actually quite useful for me cos the version I saw didn't subtitle the letter his girlfriend was writing at the beginning so I didn't know that letter was the same one being stuck to his chest.

I think there were a few other things which it didn't subtitle which would have improved the viewing if it had.

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wow, all asians look alike huh,

Those two are very different looking in my opinion, it kinda ignorant in some ways maybe you just werent paying that close attention to the film or you have a lack of understanding in film language. Im sorry to be mad but its kinda offensive.

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YES YES YES,
I was PISSED off about that; I kept on asking "why the hell is she living again/still???" that almost ruined the movie for me...ALMOST,
because I said to myself "hey, you have the IMDB message board, just enjoy the movie, you will soon find out and voila"

so be it

10/10



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[deleted]

Yep!; that's resolves everything XD

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lol, i have to agree with you, sullenboyoo...

everyone not completely blind should be able to tell sister and girlfriend apart - at least after the first half hour or sth. ;)

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Sure, if more careful attention was put towards the film, it would have been simple to differentiate the two women, but people generally have a much easier time differentiating the faces between persons of their own race as opposed to those of other races. A Caucasian person might be inclined to say that all Koreans look alike, but Koreans persons might also be inclined to say that all Caucasians look alike. A paper titled "Do "They all look alike?" The Effect of Race, Sex, Experience, and Attitudes on the Ability to Recognize Faces" by John C. Brigham and Paul Barkowitz explains this phenomenon in more detail. Because of this, I would probably cut non-Koreans a little bit of slack when confusing Ryu's sister and girl friend.


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Couldn't agree more.. I'm still trying to process that there's even a topic about this..I could write so many things but I guess it's all pointless. Ah, people, how can you be so ignorant, especially when you're watching a non-commercial movie.. If not the looks (which are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, both in dressing style, facial and bodily characteristics), the dialogues and the story makes it all clear. I'm not even mad, I just find this terribly offensive and dense at the same time. Okay, maybe I'm mad.

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What are you, a racist? They didn't look anything like each other.

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To be honest you can hardly call someone a racist for confusing two people in a film. I mixed the two up too.

"I like my coffee black, just like my metal."

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I think only idiot can be confused between these two girls, they look completely different, one of them has long hair and one of them short hair, this must see everybody and doesn't matter on color of skin or how face looks, they were completely different. I have sometimes problems with orientation between asian male actors, less at women (maybe because they are so pretty :-)), but again these two girls look completely different to anyone who just watch and don't eat popcorn.

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tosser

"I like my coffee black, just like my metal."

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I think this is unfair to use the term "racist" this way. I consider myself a determined anti-racist: I am a liberal Democrat, strong supporter of Obama since the '08 primaries, who in my salad days organized a march to protest the beating of a black man by white cops (for anyone suspecting he deserved it, a quick summary: the man was "loitering", having gotten stuck in our town when his car broke down, and may have been a little mentally "off" as he repeatedly kept calling the police, much to their annoyance until they finally gave him a beatdown that required him to be helicopter medevac'd 100 miles away to a hospital that could handle his level of trauma). I support reparations for slavery. I even took an online test designed to detect unconscious racism, and passed it with flying colors (few white Americans do).

BUT I must admit, I sometimes have trouble distinguishing between two people of the same non-Caucasian race. Sue me: it's not something I consciously control or wish to have happen. Some of it, I feel like, is because people of other ethnicities don't have the variety of hair colors and textures that white people do. But whatever the reason, I will totally admit it and I wish it were otherwise. But should people like me really be considered "racist" when we don't have animosity toward others based on race? I just don't see how that's fair.

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It isn't racism, it is just ignorance. Well not ignorance just, clearly a homogenized way of thinking and homogenized taste in movies. Though really your post on not being a racist, does scream ignorance.

Snap, Crackle...CALL AN AMBULANCE!

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Ignorance of what, exactly?

And do you really think people with "homogenized taste in movies" would even watch a subtitled Korean film that did a grand total of $45,000 in North American box office? (Also, I did after all give this film 8/10.)

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I'm not saying you and company can't grow as people or movie fans. I'm just saying clearly if you only ever see one type of movie or at least majority of the movies you watch come from one country and one country alone, it'll be hard for you to appreciate or even "get" movies from somewhere else.

On top of which Park Chan Wook is heralded as one of the greatest film makers living today. Not exactly Shion Sono here or someone.


The ignorance stems from, "I go out of my way not to be racist and think any of what I say or do is what makes me a good not racist person".

Snap, Crackle...CALL AN AMBULANCE!

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A couple tips for you:

(1) Attempting to condescend to someone who is your clear intellectual superiour is just never going to fly--it makes you look ridiculous.

(2) You're kind of a spaz. Seriously, take a chill pill. Or at least a deep breath or two.

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1. "Attempting to condescend to someone"

2. If I were you or someone else, I might take offense and ignore everything I said before, but everything I said before still stands. I am chill. I'm always chill. Zen practicality and all that.

Snap, Crackle...CALL AN AMBULANCE!

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Nothing you say stands because you're someone who takes offense when a Caucasian can't distinguish between Asian faces - a very common occurrence for both Asians and Caucasians and has absolutely nothing to do with cinema - and you describe yourself as zen?? Oh please, you come no way close to being zen. You can't accuse the op of having homogenized taste in cinema when he watched and posted on a South Korean movie message board. His act of seeking out and watching the movie alone contradicts your sentence, big time. No offense dude, but you need to learn some English.
Uh, and hairstyles could change, so the op is right in not being able to distinguish between 2 persons just because their hairstyles are different.

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I just had to put my two cents in on this thread. It was obvious the first time I saw each girl that one was sister and one was good friend (who became a lover later - but I do not think she was ever a girlfriend). The sister was soft and vey feminine with shoulder length hair. From the first moment we see the other girl she looks like a tomboy and is a chain smoker and wears boys jeans. They were night and day. Having said that though - for the first half of the movie I did keep confusing Park and the cop - I had to keep checking for the bandaged hand to know which was which until I got used to them. Sigh.

PS Not a race thing either. I can easily think of a dozen movies (mostly with white casts) where there were at lest two lead men and I kept getting confused which was which.

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I mean... they're two different actresses, how much clearer does it need to be?

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Soloution: Watch more East Asian movies. "They" might all look alike to start with, but after a you've seen a handfull "they" start to become individuals.

How can this be prevented anyways, considering that South Korea is where it's all happening at the moment, regarding movies.

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Oh Christ this person wasnt saying THEY all look alike. I watch a lot of movies that THEY star in and even I made the same mistake until half way through the movie. Like someone else said it was because of the editing, it was confusing for awhile.

Stop looking for a fight and insinuating this person was saying something as dumb as that. It wasnt out of ignorance so get of your pompous pedestal.

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"They" might all look alike to start with, but after a you've seen a handfull "they" start to become individuals"

hahahahahahaha, thats funny

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Soloution: Watch more East Asian movies. "They" might all look alike to start with, but after a you've seen a handfull "they" start to become individuals.
That may be part of the problem, I'm sure. Every culture thinks the members of every other culture looks the same; I'm white, and I was so surprised when I saw a David Chappelle skit in which he made fun of the fact that all white people look alike--didn't he know that all black people look the same! That was an eye-opener.

However, I'm American, and I have the same problem with some older, black & white American films--particularly with male characters, who all have the exact same hairstyle.


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Wow. That's an interesting point. I do find it really difficult to tell who's who in the movies when they have such similar looks which is basically why I have to concentrate when watching Asian movies and black & white films.

Nice comment.

Someone will try and rip me apart now, I'm sure.

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[deleted]

Thinking that people from other cultures all look alike is a well known phenomenon in social psychology. It's called the exogroup homogeneity bias (not sure this is the right expression in English though... I translated it from French).

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My brother thought the exact same thing. I never got the two confused. But, I wasn't sure if Ryu's girlfriend was a man or woman at the beginning of the movie. When she's siting behind the computer, you only see the top half of her face.

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Even though I'm a Korean, I made the same mistake also, :-D
Yes. There are a girlfriend and a sister.
Cha Yeong-mi is the girfriend who persuaded Ryu to kidnap a child,
but Ryu's sister didn't even know about that kidnapping.
Remember when a woman writes down her phone number and gives the paper to
the kidnapped child? That's Ryu's sister. She didn't know the child was
kidnapped, but thought she was one of Ryu's friend's daughter left in care of
Ryu because of her father's circumtances.

Such a late answer, but want it to help you to understand this film.
This is my first CW Park's film(I'm too young to watch his film) but I think
his other films would be all great as well...

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Same mistake here... I was afraid I would be left at the end of the movie with a David Lynch feel, but now that I know they're 2 different people.. it makes a whole lot more sense !

My question is : When Ryu sells his kidney and looses the 10 million wons, who's the one kicking his ass because she's mad at him ?

This was really a good movie, but I wasn't as blown away as I was with Oldboy..

Now, just to know, is Sympathy for Lady Vengance in anyway related to this one ?

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I believe it was his girlfriend that was beating him up after he lost the money.

And yes Sympathy for Lady Vengeance is the last part in Chan-Wook Park's revenge themed trilogy. Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance was the first and Oldboy was the second.

Most Recent film I've seen:
RahXephon(2001) by Yutaka Izubuchi 9/10

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[deleted]

I didnt have that problem but i didnt understand how Ryu and his girl explained the appearing of the girl to his sister and furthermore how they could kidnap her without letting her know that she was "stolen" from her father and why she didnt ask questions. It doesnt hurt the film regarding the whole work but imho it can confuse you while watching it.

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there are hints:

Ryu + sister in the flat, before Ryu takes a photo of the girl crying, he tells his sister not to talk about her mother's car accident, cause the father did not want her to know. This all is a lie. As for the girl she asks : "how come daddy's friends are so poor?"

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I didn't think they looked alike.

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yes that was his sister kicking his ass. she was mad because she said that he did that for nothing, that his sister would die anyway that he sold his kidneys for nothing. and when his sister found out that he hadnt been going to work she got upset and killed herself because she felt as if she was holding back from life.

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Thats slightly incorrect.

Ryu used his (generous considering the circumstances) severance pay to obtain a kidney on the black market without her knowledge, leading to him being ripped off and then having no money once a real doner became available.

Also Ryu deceived his sister by making it seem he was fired for no reason, thus giving her the motivation to kidnap the bosses daughter.

When his sister discovered the truth the guilt of what she had done caught up with her. Ryu's firing was completely his own fault, and the boss did not deserve having his daughter held for ransom. Also, like you say, the sister probably felt frustrated by Ryu's constant deceptions.

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jagsman29 wrote:


Ryu used his (generous considering the circumstances) severance pay to obtain a kidney on the black market without her knowledge, leading to him being ripped off and then having no money once a real doner became available.

Also Ryu deceived his sister by making it seem he was fired for no reason, thus giving her the motivation to kidnap the bosses daughter.

When his sister discovered the truth the guilt of what she had done caught up with her. Ryu's firing was completely his own fault, and the boss did not deserve having his daughter held for ransom. Also, like you say, the sister probably felt frustrated by Ryu's constant deceptions


Wow! If that's what you understood, watch the movie again!

He never told his sister he was fired! He actually told her he was getting special training at work!!!

As for the people who tought that the sister and girlfriend were the same person, again, wow! It never even crossed my mind! The sister was either super sick or pale/sick looking and the appartments were different! Right at the beginning, he says he lives with his sister! When he is half naked in bed (BEFORE THE SEX SCENE) in a completely different appartment, what did you think was going on? They are so poor but have a town house and a beach house? Hahahaha!

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I thought the sister and his GF looked alike. But I was watching it with someone else, and both of us figured out at the same time quite a ways into the movie that they were 2 people.

I saw Oldboy first, and the first sitting was unforgettable. However, since finding out the "twist", subsequent viewings are OK only. A bit similar to how I feel about The Sixth Sense. The events seem a little contrived IMHO.

I've only seen Mr Vengeance once. My impression is that it is more raw, and there seems to be more going on. More tragic too.

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for western viewers Asians all look very similar because western people have other things they automatically "register" by viewing at a face. Like for example western faces are more different because of different noses - so you learn from your childhood on that you have to distinguish people by noses. If Asians all got a very similar nose and you should really catch something else (like the eyes or whatever) it begins to be hard for you to seperate people from each other.

nose and eye are just examples to make it clear. it's more complex!

To me they looked the same as well and I had to distinguish them by their slightly different hair cut.

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Actually, I thought he had 2 sisters and was living with one. I thought the 'girlfriend' mentioned something about 'their' sister, so I thought they were all related up until the sex scene, then I assumed I just misread the subtitle at some point, although after watching Oldboy.........

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