Luther... not such a great guy

Now this is interesting propaganda.

I have found in my own readings with Luther that he was as sinful as the next man, or should I say all mankind. He would tell you himself he was not perfect. However, that being said, I would have to ask what is the point you try to make by posting all of this that Luther wrote about the Jews? I do find that you seem to be trying to put Luther on trial in a modern context for things he wrote in the 16th century. If Luther were alive in the 20th century to see the Holocaust would he have agreed with it? I should say confidently he would not. He was not a man in support of genocide of any particular race of people. He was an ardent preacher and writer in a 16th century context when forceful words were used to gain people's attention and make points more emphatic. The website you cited even concedes the point that although Luther used strong and sometimes vulgar language "it was not uncommon in the early 16th century".

Unfortunately, my own readings and knowledge of Luther don't have a large amount of background on what he wrote and from the looks of it neither does yours. Any Joe Schmoe on the internet could be told of such a link and then start bashing Luther without knowing any context. But I must again ask, what point do you try to make by posting this stuff about Luther? Why not investigate a little more and learn under what context he wrote those things about Jews and what he truly meant in all them. And be wary of how much you judge a 16th century man based on the beliefs and ideals of our 21st century culture.

Yes, Luther said some pretty nasty stuff about the Jews which all 3 of the mainstream Lutheran synods in America have repudiated (well 2 for sure have since I can find press releases from years ago saying so, not sure about the 3rd, but my guess is they have too). Those particular writings, not his theological insights and earlier writings. The movie does not cover any of that because the movie stops while he is still a young man. Luther did not write any of his anti-semitic stuff until he was an old man bitter and frustrated that he was not able to convert Jews with his clear exposition of the gospel. Nor does the movie cover the many songs and hymns that Luther wrote. Nor does it cover his family life in depth. As with all historical movies, this one covers only part of what actually happened.

Martin Luther is one of the most influential men in history and has created hundreds of years of peace and prosperity in the West where the dominant religion has been a form of Protestantism. Luther paved the way for progression in Christianity by breaking away from a horrible institution, catholicism, and advocating free expression and worship.

Luther's words against the jews arent to be taken for face value, but in context. Why would he say things like that against a group of people? Are the jews not deserving of such words for their historical actions (plots against Christ and later other Christian figures, their general fights against any form of Christian reformation--simply because they were threatening jewish proliferation)? Luther was fighting a war against the enemies of free worship of Christ--including jews and catholics. In order for one to correctly understand Luther's words on the jews, one must analyze why he was saying them, and what the jews have done. Luther's words reign supreme and true, and I'm excited to see how this movie portrays his younger life as a reformer.

Also in response to your attack on Gibson, modern Judaism is a largely anti-religious, secular organization now that works together as a group to keep their name clean, it is fact(90% of jews live in four parts of the world each about as big as New Jersey in landmass--nyc, centcal, sofla, israel).

I haven't seen the movie, but I do think it's appropriate and necessary to point out Luther's anti-semitic legacy. The initiator of this post is correctly quoting Luther (I've taught these texts in college courses). It's horrific, and, as a Lutheran, I'm ashamed and scandalized by it. And I don't fault any Jew for refusing to look beyond that, given what it contributed to.

But to reduce him to his anti-semitism would be a travasty. If we were to dismiss ancient figures because of their lack of sensitivity to issues we are now (correctly) sensitive to, we would be impoverished (one thinks of Thomas Jefferson and his slaves, and the patriarchal, anti-woman views of just about every major theologian and philosopher in pre-modern times). Luther was an exceedingly complex figure, both in himself and his legacy. He was no saint, and must be read critically and in context. (I won't even respond to the "arguments" of the poster who said the Jews "deserved" Luther's venom! Except to say it's pretty damn scary that such views still exist.)

Other posters have correctly noted that Luther's anti-semitic tracts came at the end of his life. He actually began with a genuine openness to Jews--he wrote a tract called "That Jesus Christ was born a Jew," in which he berates Christians for their attitudes and actions towards Jews, and asserts that the Jewish roots of Christianity are indispensible. Of course, he did this in the hope and expectation that the Jews would see his "corrected" understanding of the Christian faith and embrace it; when they didn't, he turned on them when he was old, sick, and frustrated about the course of events he had set in motion.

None of that excuses what he said about the Jews. The first and last word about it must be utter repudiation of these un-godly, tragic views. Luther himself was fond of saying that not everything in Scripture comes from God (he famously dismissed the book of James, for example); modern Lutherans need to say that not everything Martin Luther said does, either.

James

Unfortuantely many Christians living during Luther's time, whether Protestant or Catholic were anit-Semeitc. I would surprised myself if the film went into this. I, myself, am Catholic and I just a review on the film from a Catholic point of view saying that there are flaws in the way they have portrayed Catholicism, yet the critic still recommended the film. The real Martin Luther was flawed just like everyone and very product of his time just like everyone is to some degree or another. He is a very important figure in the history of Western Civilization and therefore a film should be made about his life. Hopefully the film does justice to the man.

Unfortuantely many Christians living during Luther's time, whether Protestant or Catholic were anit-Semeitc. I would surprised myself if the film went into this. I, myself, am Catholic and I just a review on the film from a Catholic point of view saying that there are flaws in the way they have portrayed Catholicism, yet the critic still recommended the film. The real Martin Luther was flawed just like everyone and very product of his time just like everyone is to some degree or another. He is a very important figure in the history of Western Civilization and therefore a film should be made about his life. Hopefully the film does justice to the man.

The movie, and I have seen it, has nothing to do with whether or not he was for or against Jews, though it is true that he did speak and write poorly about them. However, the movie does not seek to idolize Martin Luther, as the character says in the movie "I am not a saint...." Martin Luther did not seek idolization or a place at the head of the church, so by saying that you think so is not really delving into what Martin Luther was about. You see that he is against Jews and you judge and condemn him, making you no better than the condemnations he spoke against Jews, for he saw no further than their religion. The key to Martin Luther being a crucial person to recognize in a predominant and vital role in history, is that without him, we would all be Catholics, negating Jews. He split the rest of the world and spread the path for religious freedom. To some extent you could say that he spread the way so that people would start standing up for themselves. So, is it wrong that he was anti-semitic, yes. There isn't a person in the world that doesn't, and hasn't had their faults. But instead of putting blinders on, and seeing them only for their faults, open your eyes and see them for the good that they did. Even though you don't like Martin Luther, in some respects, that is what he was hoping for, even though he too wore blinders.
God bless.
Like my favorite song says,
"We all fall down, it's the getting back up that really counts. We live and we learn, to help someone up when it's their turn. In life there's only one guarantee, your feet won't always be on the ground. We all fall down." If you want someone to forgive you your faults, shouldn't you be prepared to forgive theirs. Afterall, that's what religion is all about. No matter which you are.

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