MovieChat Forums > The Shape of Things (2003) Discussion > Evelyn is a borderline sociopath

Evelyn is a borderline sociopath

posted 16 years ago by brightsun66
27 replies | jump to latest

According to the DSM-IV, a pattern of 3 or more the following makes you a sociopath (technically, "Antisocial personality disorder"):

1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest
2. Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure
3. Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
4. Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults
5. Reckless disregard for safety of self or others
6. Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain steady work or honor financial obligations
7. Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another

I'd say she's a lock for deceitfulness and lack of remorse (criteria 2 and 7). She certainly has the ability to plan ahead and doesn't do anything unsafe so 3, 4, and 5 are out. The middle ground is 1 and 6, although she doesn't do anything illegal. Just unethical. I think there's a stronger case for 1 than 6.

[–] Ais11 15 years ago

To be honest, I don't think there's anything "borderline" about it. She quite clearly failed to conform to social norms (1), and what she did was also illegal. Several charges could be brought against her, defamation of character being one. So, using Hare's checklist, she quite clearly meets several requirements to be clinically deemed sociopathic. She also shows signs of psychopathy, given the well thought out and executed manipulation of her "subject".

She has the characteristics of each, though possibly more of the former than the latter. As you can see at the end of the film, she's quite clearly agitated and slightly nervous, these traits are linked more to sociopathy.

[–] JessPumpkQueen 15 years ago

While she has some of the symptoms, a sociopath is someone who is pathologically incapable of feeling empathy. I think she is capable, she just chooses not to.

~Jess~
It's gotta be rock and roll music, if you want to dance with me.

[–] Agentphantom0 14 years ago

She's at least in the middle of the pathological narcissism spectrum, which at that point it doesn't really matter if you call her a psychopath because she's so twisted she's probably capable of most violence.

[–] JessPumpkQueen 14 years ago

I guess the reason I think the distinction is important is because in order to be a sociopath, you actually have to have a psychological disorder. So that leads to the question of choice. Is she acting that way because mentally ill, or does she chose to be heartless? I read the whole thing as a personal choice, because of the quote in the exhibition gallery "Moralists have no place in an art gallery".

~Jess~
It's gotta be rock and roll music, if you want to dance with me.

[–] Agentphantom0 14 years ago

I guess the reason I think the distinction is important is because in order to be a sociopath, you actually have to have a psychological disorder. So that leads to the question of choice. Is she acting that way because mentally ill, or does she chose to be heartless? I read the whole thing as a personal choice, because of the quote in the exhibition gallery "Moralists have no place in an art gallery".

Sociopathy and Psychopathy are the same thing, some believe there etiology is different but there behavior is identical. Narcissistic personality disorder, while often is spoken as if separate disorder, is actually the key component of Sociopathy/Psychopathy. It's the individuals extreme self-centeredness, lack of empathy/conscience and inability to genuinely love others that makes them so "heartless" and destructive.

The distinction between choice or mental illness is pointless. Any person who willfully hurts others, physically or emotionally or both, is mentally disordered. A psychopath always CHOOSES to hurt others, its a necessary to there psychological survival. Just because there mentally ill( pathologically narcissistic that is) doesn't mean there will is removed, only thing that is guaranteed is there choices will almost always be violent and selfish because there character is so deeply damaged.

[–] lestati 14 years ago

that would be 'their' i think

[–] shawn_381 12 years ago

Man, that was distracting.

[–] kuckunniwi 13 years ago

WHich leads to yet another question: is the choice of being heartless a symptom of mental illness in itself...?

[–] happyphantom9 12 years ago

The thing is, a true sociopath would technically not have a choice in being cold and heartless because they literally can't feel remorse or guilt. Their brains are wired that way. You can't explain to them why what they're doing is wrong. Someone who does cruel things but feels some guilt or understands that they are doing something wrong is not a sociopath.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] pwgilbert2 11 years ago

Contrary to amateur psychologists' opinions about sociopaths and psychopaths, they can have empathy and even some feelings of guilt (often related to people that they "love"). Their primary characteristic is that their narcissism and their "goals" overwhelm the normal conventions of ethics and morality. Evelyn's statements about art being outside the boundaries of morality are merely rhetorical dodges masking her contempt for most other human beings. Like Ayn Rand, Adolph Hitler and Nietzsche, she attempts to wrap her destructive impulses in a philosophy which is fundamentally indefensible. She is a very sick woman who is well-adjusted enough to act like a normal person even though she is not. She is a sociopath who is indifferent to the safety or well-being of others. She lies and manipulates not for art but for ego. Finally, she is a very dangerous person who should be under medical supervision.

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] paul_cowsill 9 years ago

Defamation isn't a crime in the states, but he could sue her. She couldn't graduate in fine art by inspiring someone to get to get into better shape.

I'm sorry the Coen brothers don't direct the porn I watch. They're hard to get ahold of, okay?

[–] Havoac 14 years ago

That's a weird list. If more than 3 points make you a sociopath then say... Was Hunter S. Thompson a sociopath? You definitely have 1, 3, 5, 6 in his case.

Either way, she obviously was. You cannot be NOT a sociopath and do something like this.

[–] halfbeast 14 years ago

by that list EVERYONE on the internet is a sociopath...

in my opinion she's more of a misanthropist.

[–] scoochie9 14 years ago

Naw. She's definitely a sociopath.
It's really interesting that Neil LaBute always writes about a character with those tendencies (and no, it's not a conscious choice for them--it's a genuine malady resulting from major abuse of one kind or another). I wonder what happened to him growing up so that he would have such insight into that mind set.

[–] denise1234 11 years ago

Actually, sociopaths/psychopaths can emerge as such, in the absence of major abuse happening to them.

11/16/12: The day the Twinkie died :(

[–] nutsberryfarm 11 years ago

maybe she is, maybe she isn't but for sure: she's not a borderline boor...a complete boor.

Season's Greetings

[–] Sabbath51 12 years ago

No just a drug addict haha... and an incredible writer.

[–] drowninghero 13 years ago

Actually I believe she is a narcissist. She knows what she is doing is wrong but she doesn't care when it comes to her art. A sociopath wouldn't know the difference between right or wrong.

Facebook.com/drowninghero

[–] kaydenpat 11 years ago

Borderline? She's a fully blown sociopath. Watching the movie right now. She's cold blooded.

Must be a Republican.

[–] hodie 11 years ago

She's a full-on sociopath. And I would think she could be sued for invasion of privacy (sex tapes) assuming he didn't know he was being taped.

"Joey, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?"

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] ntsci 10 years ago

Borderline!.. I think she crossed the border.

Actually did didn't plan ahead. Her project would violate university policies in ethics and therefore, in the real world, she would fail.
She does show irritability towards the guy.
Yes she show reckless disregard for the safety of herself... she could ended up in legal trouble as well as the potential for physical assault as a result of her manipulations.

--------------------------
RIGOLETTO: I'm denied that common human right, to weep.

[–] al666940-3 10 years ago

So what?

Sociopaths clearly are not afraid of being caught or punishment.

She clearly infers Adam is too shell-shocked to sue her, despite his boast. And if he does, so what? More humiliation to him, and attention to her.

[–] BulmaPunkRocker 10 years ago

Oh, c'mon, are you a doctor, or at least a psychologist? Don't give me the DSM crap.
Evelyn indeed has some narcisist features on her personality, she's no "borderline" much less sociopath. Dear lord, everyone thinks they're shrinks because they can google stuff.

I have been misdiagnosed (sp?) in many ocassions. Fact is I had PTSD, severe depression and anxiety disorder. I was wrongly diagnosed as "borderline", and follow an incorrect treatment. It all went wrong. Now, shrinks says I have some kind of "personality disorder", or "emotionally unestable", but they cannot give me a clear diagnostic. They just don't know. It's not as easy as diagnose schizophrenia or alzhaimer. Maybe I'm just screwed because the PTSD and they are trying to add more weird stuff. They just took criteria a + c and tadah! you're borderline! My therapist had to apologize to me because they made a wrong diagnostic at the beggining. It means a lot to me.

Please excuse my terrible redaction, english is not my native language.

[–] TheDarkContinent00 9 years ago

I completely understand why you'd say this, but I think generally people are too free with their psychoanalytical labels. Everyone wants to be an Armchair Psychologist!

At the most, Evelyn is manipulative and is willing to exploit others for the sake of her "Artistic Merit"...

"Hurt feelings are apart of life." she says. "Mmhhh tears, delicious salty human tears and vulnerable fragile human emotions."

Also, if not for that spectacular ending this Movie would have been so, so mundane. Thankfully, it was stellar because it led me to look into Neil Labute's other works like "In the Company of Men" which has become my all time favorite movies dealing with egotistical, exploitative, and manipulative types.