The torn photos


I've just watched the movie. There is a part that I don't quite get. When the mute brothel thug brought the girl to the beach, they 'saw' another girl in red dress walked in to the sea, presumably to commit suicide. And near the end of the movie when the girl went back to the same beach, she found the missing parts of the torn photos, and the face of the girl was hers and the guy's was the brothel thug. My question is, is the first scene where they saw the girl committing suicide a metaphor and the photo sort of tells of their predestined fate? Or is it much simpler, that he had a girlfriend that looked like her in the past?

reply

It is something like a Karma which the director Ki-duk Kim dealt with in his later film "Spring Summer Autumn Winter And Spring"
I think it says no matter who the girl is, she will definitely end up tragically with that Guy.

reply

haven't watched that movie you mentioned, but thanx for the explanation liovang! :)

reply

If he loves her so much how come he didn't have any sexual contact with her and still let her carry on as a whore??

I think of many reasons in my head but i can't find a logical explanation, so i would like a second opinion.

It’s nice what u said about the karma thing, while i was watching the movie i thought it was her it didn't appear to me that it could be another one who looked like her, but then my friend said it should be another girl.

I don't think that, I think the photos and the suicide scene symbolize the end of their relationship.


reply

I just thought the girl was going into the sea because she was a mermaid and needed to return to the sea to stay alive :/

As for the guy letting the girl stay in the brothel, and having no sexual contact with her, its because she was bound to the brothel by her debt that she had to repay, and there are rules to follow, and he had more respect for her than to just go and have sex with her. If you read the blurb on the DVD it clearly states that he is falling in love with her. Being in love with someone doesnt mean you want to jump instantly in bed with them it goes much deeper than that.

reply

It is his imagination of remeberance,the red girl stepped into the sea is his old lover who is very similar to the heroine.The guy just buried the their old torn photo at shore where his ex-lover had suicided.At first time the heroine just digged out some fragments and can't identify the people in it, and in the end, she digged out all of them and understood why the guy loved her so much.

reply

hmmm.. beautiful interpretation. thanx stefaniesun :)

reply

I agree. But I also think that the whole ending is a product of Han-ki's mind as he's dying after having been cut down.

reply

Thats what I thought at first, until my girlfriend gave me another explanation that to me makes more sense with what I got from whole story.

The girl in the red dress during the first beach scene is not really there. It is a foreshadowing of what will become of Sun Hwa. Basically, she is seeing herself in the future commiting suicide. Han Gi doesn't see this, as he is looking off to the distance. The fotos represent the relationship between Han GI and Sun Hwa, a relationship that can never be while at the same time foreshadowing the inevitibale outcome: that they will be together forever. When she is freed, she buys the red dress and plays out the scene she envisioned earlier.

Its important to understand the meaning of the film. Han Gi is a monster, and therefore can never be loved by someone as beautiful and as pure as Sun Hwa (I believe this to be a metaphor about class structure as well). Thus, after he realizes that he can never be loved, he lets his friend kill him. When he awakens, he is reunited with Sun Hwa and they are condemned to live out their relationship for eternity.

He taught her a lesson, but the lesson she taught him is more powerful, and they live happily ever after in eternity living out the same relationship they had while they were alive.

reply

I believe your girlfriend is one deep and intelligent person, because that makes perfect sense. Unlucklily I dislike pretentious movies like this one... it stunk like War-Kais movies a bit, but now I know why the movie felt so irrational. Give my thanks to her, she cleared up a lot of fog for me. =)

reply

thank you. i would love to intrepert it this way too. but when i see the final scene in the harbor where they got a man inside the truck to have sex with the girl it just kinda ruined it. well if it was the afterlife or whatever, i don't think it supposed to happen, cause then there is no difference to when before they died, right?

reply

i think that the photos never existed. it seemed weird how when she taped them to the mirror, sunhwa and hungi's eyes would always be looking right at each other through the glass, perfectly alligned with the pictures. doesnt that seem a little unrealistic? it seems it was all planned right? from sunhwa's perspective, she's looking at the pictures. she has no idea that it's a double sided mirror and that someones behind it for that matter. I dont think hungi knows what the photos are of either, he just looks through them because sunwha's face is on the other side, through the missing pieces. this makes me think that the photos were just used as a device by the filmmaker to show both charactors' feelings without using the characters themselves to show their feelings for each other, making the point very subtle.

although she hates hungi for forcing her into prostitution, she still harbors some feelings for him. out of everyone in the redlight district, he seems to be the only one that has a sincere disposition in front of her. unlike that other guy that said he liked her and stuff, hungi cannot show his feelings for sunhwa through words--only body language and actions.

before they arrive at the beach for the first time, sunwha walks through the city and hungi follows her in a car. this is the first appearence of the girl in the red dress. the girl in the red dress is sunhwa later in the movie after hungi releases her. remember how sunhwa gets freed and walks on forever and hitching a ride from the trucker? she ends up walking to the beach and drowns herself. when the guy stabs hungi, he actually dies. when he wakes up, it's more like... an alternate ending to the movie.

the movie really ends when he gets stabbed. hungi dies, sunhwa commits suicide.
the alternate ending carries on when hungi awakens and meets sunhwa at the beach. their love for each other is shown when sunhwa put her head on hungi's shoulder and he put his arm around her. the reason for the continuing prostitution is because once sunhwa has become used to being a prostitute, she cannot continue with a normal life anymore. she's already used to the prostitution as shown in that one scene where that guy comments on how sunwha liked the sex and when she gives sex for a ride to the beach. the ending shows how once sunhwa's becomes a prostitue, she will always be a prostitute and how hungi will always be a pimp; showing that the true nature of life is a cyclic existence.

furthermore, the picture shows them wearing the red dress and the flannel shirt, clothes they had purchased after they "died," showing the impossibility of the photos.

reply

[deleted]

I just finished watching this film. Like the Isle the ending is shrouded in metephor and ambiguity. But, I have to believe, as ac115 states, that the life of both characters end the day/night that Hung gi gets stabbed and Sun Hwa buys the dress and drowns herself. Happiness (if that's what you can call it) only occurs after death as they live out their previous roles eternally, this time bound in love. It's weird but very powerful

After the stabbing, everything is surreal. The grittiness is replaced by mundane sequencing, and distant camera shots. It smacks of dreamstate or afterlife. This is our queue, our only hint that both characters have moved on and are no longer living.

Like many Korean and Japanese films the meaning is not spelled out. Thougtful viewing is required. Wonderful, just wonderful...this film is as good as I'd hoped it to be.

reply

Dude, you're in a minority. I too like Japanese and Korean films. But this one was incoherent, made little sense, there were holes in the plot everywhere (the glass she picks up in the beach, the page she tears out of the book, etc). The characters never seemed believable and there wasn't a nice egg between them.

I have just watched this film tonight at a World Cinema Film Analysis and Appreciation course. 12 people - all film buffs or else we wouldn't be at this course - watched the film. In the hour-long chat about it afterwards, only two people actually had any positive views on it (and these were lukewarm). Yes, the ending was discussed, and similar views were made about the photo and the girl in the sea, but no matter what interpretation you made of any of the film, the general consensus was that it was pretty crap however you interpreted it.

But it's interesting to see all your conflicting views, nonetheless!

reply

I agree with acl15.
Thanks for clearing the complexity.

reply

after a few hours of thinking about it and also being baffled by the pics, etc., here's my take:

the Thug actually died when his friend stabbed him TWICE in the gut with the knife (that the Thug buried). as we saw, he (and, presumably the audience) was surprised that he was still alive. he had seen the pieced together pics in Her room on the mirror and walked to the clothing store to pick out the same shirt in the photo, so as to become that person. the Girl does the same, when she goes to buy the red dress, then they meet on the beach.

when Thug took her there the first time, notice that we did not see the Suicide Girl's face. it was actually Thug's Girl, in a metaphorical scene. Red Dress was actually Thug's Girl committing suicide after the death of her captor/protector.

the final scenes were the last thoughts of both parties and the fact that Thug continued to whore her out was his only way to relate to and/or show/feel love for her.

so, ultimately, they both died and what we saw were their last thoughts in a kind of combined manner.

that's my theory and i'm sticking to it!

Paul Sorrells

reply

Have u guys not seen the directors narration of the film in the extras part of the dvd?

Well he says the the woman that kills herself at sea is a vision of the heroines otherself - from her life before becoming a prostitute. So he says that the heroine seeing the woman drown is actually her otherself commiting suicide, and also an indication that she has begun to accept her new life and left her old one behind.

Listenin to the directors explanations of some of the controversial scenes, I felt alittle let down by his explanations of why he did the scenes the way he did, because it left a lot to be desired ...turns out there wasn’t all that metaphorical meaning as some of you have posted up there.

This directors thinking isn’t all that deep at all.

reply

It's so funny that most people want to like his films so go for the metaphor when their own morals can't accept the story Ki-Duk is so clearly telling.
It's so funny, I would love Ki-Duk just for doing that.

reply

howcanyoubesure,
I'd like to hear more about what you think "the story Ki-Duk is so clearly telling". I'm not mocking your comment; I'd honestly like to hear how you interpret the film.

reply

Hi, basmith-4.
VStarkwell answered the question for me, hope it made sense to you, if not please fell free to let me know.

reply

Thanks for clearing that up. I kinda thought the same as well - that the girl walking towards the ocean was the heroine's loss of innocence. Because if you notice, after the pimp took her back, she started to accept her life as a prostitute - she started putting on wigs, enthusiastically asking for customers, etc.. Her innocence died basically.

But what i dont get was how she was in the piccture with the thug, and they were both represented as thier more innocent versions... Then towards the end, they both met back at the same location on the beach, dressed that way. someone please explain that part. Was this all an illusion.. since the thug might have actually died from the stab wounds? and if it were an illusion - wouldnt he fantasize something more appealing then a lifestyle of whoring his girlfriend at the warfs?

reply

This is how I interpreted it too. If the director said this then I guess I was right but why then does the innocent version of Seon-Hwa "from her life before becoming a prostitute" (i.e. red dress version) have longer hair than prostitute Seon-Hwa? Her hair is noticeably longer as the 'innocent' Seon-Hwa. She has to be older. I can't imagine that there isn't significance in this obvious difference in hair length.

reply

The dirctor does emphasize that pimps and whores though lower class in Korea are still people who have their own dignity. So it is sort of a union of the classes when the college girl falls for the low class pimp. People have a hard time accepting that, so they want a different explanation. Taken literally, the pimp doesn't die afer all, and they do spend their days out whoring on the road.

The karma theory does seem to be the only way to explain the photos. That they were past lovers reunited in this incarnation. That is why he kisses her in the beginning and why she eventually falls for him.

reply

Having read all interpretations, here's mine.

First of all, the Bad Guy (as named by the film) falls in love instantly when he first sees her but actually, can't win her heart by seduction...the only kiss he gets is violently stolen.

He lures her into prostitution to have an eye on her...and as a prostitute, she isn't owned by her partners but by her pimp. Nevertheless, the bad guy doesn't clearly accept the fact that that way, he's "dirtying" her. As shown by her first client stopped before "action" and her second being beaten violently.

Now for the beach scene and the photo's, I too believe that the drowning girl is some sort of "pure" form that dies as she understands that she can't escape. The photo's doesn't exist too. They are symbols for what will be her new life with the bad guy...but doesn't accept it for now. This is shown by the missing faces.

The scenes with the eyes and faces through the holes int the photo's shows that she's slowly beginning to understand...and explains why she visits BG in the prison and crying for his return.

From the Bad guy's side, he's hopeless. He awaits death as a liberation (in the prison though he's showing rebellion when the guards come to hang him). He frees the girl that finally shows her "love" by taking his hand but he refuses this relation. When he beats his wingman, he yells for himself that there is no love for a guy like him...and awaits death again when his wingman stabs him.

And for the end, it's a bit ambiguous. Saying he dies is a good idea...but then how can the "truck prostitution" be explained because for me, these last scenes are real. Maybe can we say that he's surviving just because he has finally understood that there is some kind of love for him too.
He owns her love (she even accepts to sell her body to prove that love)

reply

My interpretation is very similar to this. When you look back at the scene Han-Ki can't see the woman only Sun-hwa can, which to me means that the women represents Sun-hwa's previous self before she meets Han-Ki . In the scene before when Sun-hwa escapes and she is walking home, the woman gives her a coat which basically symbolises the return to her previous life. After she gets caught again she sees the woman walk into the ocean (committing suicide) which represents Sun-hwa giving up all hope of returning to her previous life and discovering a new one (the photos on the beach).

reply

It is his imagination of remeberance, the red girl stepped into the sea is his old lover who is very similar to the heroine. The guy just buried the their old torn photo at shore where his ex-lover had suicided.At first time the heroine just digged out some fragments and can't identify the people in it, and in the end, she digged out all of them and understood why the guy loved her so much.



The karma theory does seem to be the only way to explain the photos. That they were past lovers reunited in this incarnation. That is why he kisses her in the beginning and why she eventually falls for him.



That's it.

reply

Keep pulling the sweater. The lady in red is a harbinger, guardian angel, or whatever fits. The lady in red who suicided was the same lady who gave the college girl the sweater after college girl ran away and was walking aimlessly through town. Watch the sweater scene again. The face of the lady in red was not shown and college girl gave no reaction to getting the sweater. But the sweater was real. The lady who walked into the sea was symbolic perhaps, but the torn photograph was real.

reply